I enjoy cardio. Walking, light jogging, kettlebells, jump rope, etc...nothing wrong with it.

Pop some BCAA's or Whey Protein before and your going to be fine. A 30-minute run, even while fasted, isn't going to burn off your muscle.

This is assuming muscle growth/maintainence is the goal. If it's fat loss or re-comp, that's a completely different story.

With that said, to quote John Welbourn..."if you wanna get big, lift heavy, eat a **** ton of food and sit on your ***." Don't run if you can walk. Don't walk if you can sit. Don't sit if you can lay down.

I recently read a thread on another forum that discussed maintaining muscle size/strength and keeping a high cardio level. Trying to "serve two masters." It was pretty interesting.

I don't run for extended periods ever so I couldn't really comment. A good friend of mine trained and ran a half marathon in the summer. He was in top cardio shape, but lost a ton of muscle from the training. He was decently built, then wasted away to a twig.

like_that;1331440 wrote:I am well aware. I see all the body builders always walking on the treadmills. Like I said I have been doing it less, but i still get a run in once or twice a week. Better than every day.

Also living in a city now, I have noticed walking everywhere is pretty helpful.

Chicago? I heard that's another place where you walk your ass off. I dropped 10lbs in the first month after moving and ditching my vehicle.

Azubuike24;1331447 wrote:I enjoy cardio. Walking, light jogging, kettlebells, jump rope, etc...nothing wrong with it.

Pop some BCAA's or Whey Protein before and your going to be fine. A 30-minute run, even while fasted, isn't going to burn off your muscle.

This is assuming muscle growth/maintainence is the goal. If it's fat loss or re-comp, that's a completely different story.

With that said, to quote John Welbourn..."if you wanna get big, lift heavy, eat a **** ton of food and sit on your ***." Don't run if you can walk. Don't walk if you can sit. Don't sit if you can lay down.

I want to lift, but I don't want to be bulky. Thus why I get my cardio in (amongst other reasons). So, it is ok to to take BCAA's before cardio as well? BR steered me to Scivation Xtend, however I only take it before I lift (typically all my workouts are fasted). Would it be ok to take it before cardio as well?

Automatik;1331457 wrote:I recently read a thread on another forum that discussed maintaining muscle size/strength and keeping a high cardio level. Trying to "serve two masters." It was pretty interesting.

I don't run for extended periods ever so I couldn't really comment. A good friend of mine trained and ran a half marathon in the summer. He was in top cardio shape, but lost a ton of muscle from the training. He was decently built, then wasted away to a twig.



Chicago? I heard that's another place where you walk your ass off. I dropped 10lbs in the first month after moving and ditching my vehicle.

DC. Unless I am on a time crunch I walk everywhere. Everywhere worth going for me is typically within a 3.5 mile radius (DC is a relatively small city once you figure it out). So, even on a night out drinking, I am walking around 5-6+ miles. It's def nice not having to drive. When I head back to Ohio for xmas, I am going to be that guy who walks in surburbia to go to the grocery store lol.

like_that;1331463 wrote:I want to lift, but I don't want to be bulky. Thus why I get my cardio in (amongst other reasons). So, it is ok to to take BCAA's before cardio as well? BR steered me to Scivation Xtend, however I only take it before I lift (typically all my workouts are fasted). Would it be ok to take it before cardio as well?

This. I squat, deadlift, and bench 2 days a week and run 2 miles on the 3rd work out day. Getting big is stupid.

sleeper;1331477 wrote:This. I squat, deadlift, and bench 2 days a week and run 2 miles on the 3rd work out day. Getting big is stupid.

I wouldn't say it's stupid, but it is not a goal of mine. Rather try to keep a lean look.

sleeper;1331477 wrote:This. I squat, deadlift, and bench 2 days a week and run 2 miles on the 3rd work out day. Getting big is stupid.

Pro tip: want to look like you gained 10lbs of muscle? Drop 10lbs of fat.

I wish I knew 5 years ago, what I do now. I was still stuffing my face, trying to hit 3k cals a day. Eating big to get big...bulking!!! :laugh::laugh:

like_that;1331507 wrote:I wouldn't say it's stupid, but it is not a goal of mine. Rather try to keep a lean look.

I do a ton of cardio and various exercises with 15-25 pound dumbbells to achieve the lean look. I've never been keen on "getting big" because it messes with my golf swing.

I tried the whole bulk thing back during my underclassmen years in college. I gained a lot of mass, but I also looked like a fat ass. Granted I wasn't eating the way I am not (Bdubs once or twice a week lol), but after that being bulky was not a look I desired.

This is such a large scale discussion. A fun one, but so many variables. I guess it depends where you're coming from. If I was advising someone who has very little muscle mass, I'd honestly advise them to put on sheer size and focus on the major lifts. Just squatting and dead lifting, along with some upper body variance would be fine. At the same time, you're not going to put on size without eating. Trying to do this stuff, not eating in a surplus AND doing cardio is going to just spin your wheels.

With that said, this is easy for me to say because losing fat in any area is EASY. Pay attention to diet. Don't drink. Avoid chronic stress, sleep deficiency and stick to even a varied-Paleo/Primal diet and you can literally melt body fat off easily. You can melt it off even with very light cardio and nothing else, and can spare muscle tissue depending on your meal-timing and other supplements.

Someone already in-shape and just wanting to stay lean, avoiding cardio if it's something you enjoy is just stupid...

Just to add to that...if you eat all the right foods...at the right times...eliminating processed sugars, grains, inflammatory fats, oils, carbs...you can eat at a significant surplus calorie-wise and only put on muscle. It's going to be at a much slower pace, but it's possible.

I'd also say however, this type of thing is IMPOSSIBLE if things like oats, rice, certain fruits and even other starches are in the diet. For most people, this stuff is because non-starchy veggies, protein and fats are very difficult for people to stick to 100%.

like_that;1331463 wrote:I want to lift, but I don't want to be bulky. Thus why I get my cardio in (amongst other reasons). So, it is ok to to take BCAA's before cardio as well? BR steered me to Scivation Xtend, however I only take it before I lift (typically all my workouts are fasted). Would it be ok to take it before cardio as well?

I drink Xtend during my weight workout and while I'm on the treadmill either walking or doing sprints.

Azubuike24;1331603 wrote:This is such a large scale discussion. A fun one, but so many variables. I guess it depends where you're coming from. If I was advising someone who has very little muscle mass, I'd honestly advise them to put on sheer size and focus on the major lifts. Just squatting and dead lifting, along with some upper body variance would be fine. At the same time, you're not going to put on size without eating. Trying to do this stuff, not eating in a surplus AND doing cardio is going to just spin your wheels.

With that said, this is easy for me to say because losing fat in any area is EASY. Pay attention to diet. Don't drink. Avoid chronic stress, sleep deficiency and stick to even a varied-Paleo/Primal diet and you can literally melt body fat off easily. You can melt it off even with very light cardio and nothing else, and can spare muscle tissue depending on your meal-timing and other supplements.

Someone already in-shape and just wanting to stay lean, avoiding cardio if it's something you enjoy is just stupid...

I"m at a point now where I'd like to put on a solid 8-10 of muscle. I'm in such groove with IF and running at a calorie deficit I'm not sure how to go about it. I'd like to add the mass while keeping lean, but hard to do both.

In the past I'd just say screw it and pile on the calories and "bulk" then cut during the spring. I've been fortunate enough to stay fairly lean since last spring so I don't want all that work to go to shit.

It's cliche, but once the holidays are over I'm going back to hard core calorie counting. I was hitting 1500-1700 to lean out, now I'm thinking 2500ish to add mass. That's a lot to take in in the 8 hour window. I need to do some more research/tweaking.

Automatik;1331676 wrote: It's cliche, but once the holidays are over I'm going back to hard core calorie counting. I was hitting 1500-1700 to lean out, now I'm thinking 2500ish to add mass. That's a lot to take in in the 8 hour window. I need to do some more research/tweaking.

Eat one of Berkhan's protein "cheesecakes" he makes. About 1000 calories and doesn't really fill you up. I've eaten a whole one for lunch and was hungry an hour later.

BR1986FB;1331679 wrote:Eat one of Berkhan's protein "cheesecakes" he makes. About 1000 calories and doesn't really fill you up. I've eaten a whole one for lunch and was hungry an hour later.

I still never got around to trying one of those. I have the recipes saved. Those turkey meatballs baked in a muffin pan are the the bomb!

Automatik;1331683 wrote:I still never got around to trying one of those. I have the recipes saved. Those turkey meatballs baked in a muffin pan are the the bomb!

The cheesecake is ridiculous and so easy to make. 100+ grams of protein too.

Automatik;1331676 wrote:I"m at a point now where I'd like to put on a solid 8-10 of muscle. I'm in such groove with IF and running at a calorie deficit I'm not sure how to go about it. I'd like to add the mass while keeping lean, but hard to do both.

In the past I'd just say screw it and pile on the calories and "bulk" then cut during the spring. I've been fortunate enough to stay fairly lean since last spring so I don't want all that work to go to ****.

It's cliche, but once the holidays are over I'm going back to hard core calorie counting. I was hitting 1500-1700 to lean out, now I'm thinking 2500ish to add mass. That's a lot to take in in the 8 hour window. I need to do some more research/tweaking.

I've had some success bulking while sticking to a pretty strict Primal regime for about 3 months now. The difficulty comes to really trying to consume enough volume to get the surplus calories. Getting 2500-3000 calories a day with the only starches being sweet potatoes, potatoes and maybe some limited dried fruit, raw honey and raw dairy is tough.

With that said, I've put on 16 lbs and my waist size has increased about 1.25 inches. That's what I was getting at with the whole "it's possible to bulk by gaining 100% muscle mass", but to achieve that, the training matters very little and the foods used to do it matter a lot. The typical bulking, even if you're taking advantage of Insulin sensitivity and the PWO window, isn't going to be 100% clean if you're using sloppy carbs. I guess that's just anecdotal, but if I were you, I'd not worry about the calories and focus more on just dialing in the food quality. 100% clean eating gives you a lot more flexibility when it comes to sheer caloric intake.

As for those "cheesecakes", it's crazy. PWO eating is a beautiful thing because you can really mitigate any VOLUME of food. I know after squatting, I'm ravenous the rest of the day and night.

Azubuike24;1331717 wrote:I've had some success bulking while sticking to a pretty strict Primal regime for about 3 months now. The difficulty comes to really trying to consume enough volume to get the surplus calories. Getting 2500-3000 calories a day with the only starches being sweet potatoes, potatoes and maybe some limited dried fruit, raw honey and raw dairy is tough.

With that said, I've put on 16 lbs and my waist size has increased about 1.25 inches. That's what I was getting at with the whole "it's possible to bulk by gaining 100% muscle mass", but to achieve that, the training matters very little and the foods used to do it matter a lot. The typical bulking, even if you're taking advantage of Insulin sensitivity and the PWO window, isn't going to be 100% clean if you're using sloppy carbs. I guess that's just anecdotal, but if I were you, I'd not worry about the calories and focus more on just dialing in the food quality. 100% clean eating gives you a lot more flexibility when it comes to sheer caloric intake.

As for those "cheesecakes", it's crazy. PWO eating is a beautiful thing because you can really mitigate any VOLUME of food. I know after squatting, I'm ravenous the rest of the day and night.

Do you log your cals, or have a general idea what you eat in a day? Do you have high and low days?

Post up if you don't mind. I'd like to compare to what I was doing in the past.

I don't know much about paleo/primal eating, but I get the general idea. Cost and convenience play a big part in my diet when I'm being strict, I'm sure all paleo eating adds up.

I hadn't weighed myself since I started working full time; I've put on 10 pounds. :laugh:

I tried making an eggvocado this morning...didn't turn out right.

Too much egg, too ripe an avocado, and cut too much of the back of the avocado off. Will try again.

Fast for 16 hours a day. Do Bench press, Sqaut, Deadlift, OH Press, Chin Ups, Pull Ups, Dips and maybe some abs. Sprint once or twice a week. Enjoy the food you like during your eating window. Consume protein, lots. Drink lots of water, limit alcohol to once a week. Do this and your result will be you looking good.

Automatik;1332521 wrote:Do you log your cals, or have a general idea what you eat in a day? Do you have high and low days?

Post up if you don't mind. I'd like to compare to what I was doing in the past.

I don't know much about paleo/primal eating, but I get the general idea. Cost and convenience play a big part in my diet when I'm being strict, I'm sure all paleo eating adds up.

Not all the time, but yes. I have about 2 years worth of explicit logs of supplementation, food intake and training regimes. Complete with bloodwork, 3-5 blood glucose readings a day, height/weight/measurements and other specifics such as heart rate variability, body temperature, etc.

I'm a statistic nerd like that though and it has given me a great understanding of my own metabolism, biochemistry and allows me to go a lot more on how I feel and perform and not have to be as tedious.

With that said, the most important thing to track is training progression. I think with diet you can get 95% return by just sticking with a certain template (like Primal) and not be as concerned with weighing/measuring.

As for cutting costs, there are certain things you can get for dirt cheap. Eggs, tuna, sardines, etc...and other cuts of meat on sale/discounted. If you have freezer space, it's a great way to go. Same with produce. I know around here (and I assume many places around the holidays), stores were selling sweet potatoes for $.33/lb. I bought about 20-30 lbs and have them in a freezer. That's some really quality starch sources for around 10 bucks or less. You can do the same with other fruits and veggies, again, if you have the freezer space.

A lot of the other Primal/Paleo stuff focuses on food quality like pastured eggs, grass-fed beef, raw milk, organic everything, high-quality nuts and seeds/oils. I really try to focus on that stuff myself, but I also have some extra income and make it a priority. I wouldn't stress over it if you're unable to really go down that road and definitely don't let it deter you from trying to just stick to the right foods in the first place. Unfortunately, many get turned off because they think they need to invest all of this money into food/supplements and instead just don't even try.

sleeper;1332530 wrote:I hadn't weighed myself since I started working full time; I've put on 10 pounds. :laugh:

This is one thing I hate about having an office job. There are many perks to my job, but having to sit at a desk and use a phone and computer all the time, or be working at home with a laptop doesn't help at all with mobility.

We need state laws mandating that people get up every hour. Imagine the savings in health care expenses from the prevention of not only Diabetes, obesity, etc...but the lessening of back, neck and other conditions caused by constant sitting.

Azubuike24;1332905 wrote:This is one thing I hate about having an office job. There are many perks to my job, but having to sit at a desk and use a phone and computer all the time, or be working at home with a laptop doesn't help at all with mobility.

We need state laws mandating that people get up every hour. Imagine the savings in health care expenses from the prevention of not only Diabetes, obesity, etc...but the lessening of back, neck and other conditions caused by constant sitting.

I agree with you. However, I do go on a 15-20 minute walk every day at work typically around the 2:30p slump.

I got back into working out about a month ago and I'm pretty happy with the results I've achieved so far. It amazes me what squats and dead lifts can do for you in such a short time.

Also, I like the idea of a paleo diet but I could never give up milk or especially cheese. Sorry!