Gblock;687477 wrote:also is the private sector doing well?? hows that working for our economy? why is everyone keep saying private sector private sector like its a shining example of how things should be run...if im not mistaken its the private sector that got us into this mess.

Problem solved. Let's all be government workers. We can create monopoly money for our banana republic.

Bigdogg;687431 wrote:I did not think many of you would be i********* enough to get it. The message is if you fail to speak out against injustice, you will suffer the consequences.

Yes, I'm familiar, but apparently, you are not, as your parallel is fallacious in at least two ways.

#1 - You are comparing a portion of the population being subject to the same employment options as the rest of the population to a quote made regarding mass genocide. That'd be an Appeal To Outrage Fallacy (or, in many circles, the Rush Limbaugh Fallacy, since he's known for doing it a lot). Nevermind the difference between the protected classes against which the genocide taking place and the career CHOICE made by educated people.

#2 - The "consequences" of which you speak are drastically different, because it is the tax-payers that are the ones "coming for" this, since they are the ones that are bearing burden so that some can live sheltered from what everyone else has to face.

There are likely better parallels, but this one was an embarrassment.

Bigdogg;687431 wrote:Even though you seem intent of waving anything that is right for the common good, there still some of us out here that will speak against what is wrong.

Explain to me, if you will, how a collective of teachers who make an average of $100K in total compensation a year not being able to teach two-thirds of the kids at a grade level to read on their level is "for the common good." Moreover, since when were the rights of the individual supposed to be trampled for "the common good?" I must have missed that part of the Constitution.

Finally, there is nothing "wrong" (your word) with a teacher having to compete for a salary. What IS wrong is that teacher salaries go up while average household doesn't. What is wrong is that what was once collective bargaining has become collective bullying. Instead of negotiating, one party is able to essentially make the other one bend to its will, which is what causes the mismatch of teacher salary and household income.

Your general, fallacious drivel thus far in this discussion holds not even an ounce of credibility, and thus, so far, you deserve to not even be taken seriously. A bumper sticker or out-of-context soundbite would be more informative.

Bigdogg;687431 wrote:The free market was already tried and failed in our recent history.

When was this? Not in the last several presidencies.

Bigdogg;687433 wrote:Fox news is where you get your information? That explains a lot.

No. My response was to Belly. If I must listen to a news station, I go to BBC.

However, my reply was against things I've witnessed of people in my life. Why should someone who wishes to freely exercise his or her right to not be in a union still be forced to pay that union?

fan_from_texas;687354 wrote:Limiting collective bargaining rights when the average teacher in one of the worst school districts in the country pulls in total comp. over $100k isn't exactly the same thing as deporting millions of Jews to Auschwitz to kill them. Just sayin'.

Yes, but Walker is like Hitler and Mubarak according to some. So maybe it is the same? :rolleyes:

Gblock;687477 wrote:also is the private sector doing well?? hows that working for our economy? why is everyone keep saying private sector private sector like its a shining example of how things should be run...if im not mistaken its the private sector that got us into this mess.

The private sector is responsible for economic upswings too as well as downturns (although public sector can be a huge liability in terms of dollars owed). In both instances, public sector is dependent on private sector for salary and benefits; so when private sector is hurt, so will public sector. It doesn't matter who is at fault, the point and fact remain that public sector benefits and salary can't be supported, at the current levels, by the private sector.

Bigdogg;687346 wrote:First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.

-Martin Niemöller 1933

typical liberal compare everyone to the nazis

O-Trap;687505 wrote:Your general, fallacious drivel thus far in this discussion holds not even an ounce of credibility, and thus, so far, you deserve to not even be taken seriously. A bumper sticker or out-of-context soundbite would be more informative.

So now you know why bigdogg gets treated by many, just exactly how he wants to be treated. Supply and demand, eh?

Bigdogg;687433 wrote:Fox news is where you get your information? That explains a lot.

Bigdogg........ get O-Trap and Belly confused .... WTF everyone knows I have better grammar... mofo

dwccrew;687528 wrote:The private sector is responsible for economic upswings too as well as downturns (although public sector can be a huge liability in terms of dollars owed). In both instances, public sector is dependent on private sector for salary and benefits; so when private sector is hurt, so will public sector. It doesn't matter who is at fault, the point and fact remain that public sector benefits and salary can't be supported, at the current levels, by the private sector.

True. ALL wealth is created by the private sector. The public sector leeches its wealth from the private sector.

Like it or not when the private sector is doing poorly, so goes the public sector...or so it should anyway. When real earnings take a nosedive in the private sector, the public sector must follow suit or the books won't balance.

Wisconsin is but the tip of a very, very large national iceberg and the Titanic lies dead ahead.

For those of you who like your Morning Joe:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/02/21/msnbcs_morning_joe_discovers_liberal_media_bias_in_wisconsin.html

2quik4u;687530 wrote:typical liberal compare everyone to the nazis

I hope you are really not as dense as the rest on here. I was not comparing them to the Nazis. It was a quote about not speaking up until something affects you personally. A lesson from history that many on here evidently slept through in class.

Belly35;687618 wrote:Bigdogg........ get O-Trap and Belly confused .... WTF everyone knows I have better grammar... mofo

hahahahaha!!!

Bigdogg;687791 wrote:I hope you are really not as dense as the rest on here. I was not comparing them to the Nazis. It was a quote about not speaking up until something affects you personally. A lesson from history that many on here evidently slept through in class.

Indeed, and it was lousy. You might as well have posted "might makes right" or "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve", it is an irrelevant statement that has nothing to do with the issue at hand - what is at hand is a bunch of over-indulged "professionals" whining that they might have to accept less.

Bigdogg;687791 wrote:I hope you are really not as dense as the rest on here. I was not comparing them to the Nazis. It was a quote about not speaking up until something affects you personally. A lesson from history that many on here evidently slept through in class.

It was understood as poorly-written drivel.

Manhattan Buckeye;687806 wrote:Indeed, and it was lousy. You might as well have posted "might makes right" or "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve", it is an irrelevant statement that has nothing to do with the issue at hand - what is at hand is a bunch of over-indulged "professionals" whining that they might have to accept less.

Last I heard they already had made concessions before the Governor decided he would eliminate CB . I guess you proved how uninformed you are to the real issues.

And the concessions won't work, we've been debating this for days. If I hire you to perform a service for me and offer $100, yet I only have $50, you can concede to only taking $75 but it means jack squat - I only have $50.

Our states are effectively broke, that is the real issue

Bigdogg;687876 wrote:Last I heard they already had made concessions before the Governor decided he would eliminate CB . I guess you proved how uninformed you are to the real issues.

If so, that is news to me--I've been following this pretty closely, since I live in WI, and my understanding is that they only decided to make concessions after this was being pushed through. And he isn't eliminating collective bargaining; it's being limited to wages, not benefits. Given the level of benefits enjoyed by the state's public employees, this seems like a reasonable move.

CenterBHSFan;687550 wrote:So now you know why bigdogg gets treated by many, just exactly how he wants to be treated. Supply and demand, eh?

My reply was inappropriate, unnecessary, and over the top. I will leave it, because I don't hide when I err. While I stand by what I said, the way I presented it was not appropriate for a serious discussion.

CenterBHSFan;687719 wrote:For those of you who like your Morning Joe:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/02/21/msnbcs_morning_joe_discovers_liberal_media_bias_in_wisconsin.html

Yep, even the liberal Mika said it was too much.
I'm telling everyone, what it in the the morning. It is great stuff.

ptown_trojans_1;687972 wrote:I'm telling everyone, what it in the the morning.

lolwut

The Daily Show had a good/funny piece on the Wisconsin drama. Also had a good interview with Anderson Cooper on the Egypt stuff.

I like that the Daily Show is able to show the protesting as silly. Shows that they'll make fun of their own when they do stupid things.

I Wear Pants;688095 wrote:The Daily Show had a good/funny piece on the Wisconsin drama. Also had a good interview with Anderson Cooper on the Egypt stuff.

I like that the Daily Show is able to show the protesting as silly. Shows that they'll make fun of their own when they do stupid things.

The real key is to make fun of everyone for anything.

There was a guy they showed that was carrying a sign in Wisconsin with the "L" in the Governor's name (Walker right?) shaped like a Swastika. Of course they had to draw the Swastika incorrectly do accomplish this but who cares for accuracy when you're comparing democratically elected governors to Nazi's right?

Manhattan Buckeye;687900 wrote:And the concessions won't work, we've been debating this for days. If I hire you to perform a service for me and offer $100, yet I only have $50, you can concede to only taking $75 but it means jack squat - I only have $50.

Our states are effectively broke, that is the real issue

This is the problem. Our governments (all levels) were too stupid and careless to realize that they were making promises they couldn't keep and the employees that were promised benefits and salary, that are not feasible to be paid, are too stubborn to concede and compromise to reasonable contracts.

CenterBHSFan;687719 wrote:For those of you who like your Morning Joe:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/02/21/msnbcs_morning_joe_discovers_liberal_media_bias_in_wisconsin.html

Awesome. Thanks!

Gblock;687477 wrote:also is the private sector doing well?? hows that working for our economy? why is everyone keep saying private sector private sector like its a shining example of how things should be run...if im not mistaken its the private sector that got us into this mess.

You're mistaken.

O-Trap;687993 wrote:lolwut

lol, I meant watch it in the morning. Fail on that one.

They had Governor Christie on this morning. It was pretty good stuff.