"I personally think it will be bad for the Republican party to get the masses motivated to turn out in the next elections."

As the Dude from The Big Lebowski stated, "that's just, like, your opinion, man."

Explain to me how this isn't a disaster of epic proportions for the DEMS. This isn't Montgomery Burns screwing over Homer Simpson to pad his wallet. This is TAXPAYER MONEY being spent on folks that are upper middle class. The whole class warfare argument is total horseshit. As the days keep going people will wake up to what is really going on...some people that think they are above economic realities are facing what the rest of us have faced the last few years. It gets dumber by the day.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.

-Martin Niemöller 1933

Then they came for the taxpayers, then they realized all of the money is gone.

Stop the socialist crap.

If 2/3 of Wisconsin 8th graders cannot read proficiently I say we blame inbreeding more than teaching. There is no way 66% of the 8th graders are idiots. I'll accept 40% and nothing higher.

Bigdogg;687346 wrote:First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.

-Martin Niemöller 1933

Limiting collective bargaining rights when the average teacher in one of the worst school districts in the country pulls in total comp. over $100k isn't exactly the same thing as deporting millions of Jews to Auschwitz to kill them. Just sayin'.

fan_from_texas;687354 wrote:Limiting collective bargaining rights when the average teacher in one of the worst school districts in the country pulls in total comp. over $100k isn't exactly the same thing as deporting millions of Jews to Auschwitz to kill them. Just sayin'.

If we invoked genocide on the teachers who didn't meet standards I think that education as a major in college would decrease pretty significantly.

CinciX12;687359 wrote:If we invoked genocide on the teachers who didn't meet standards I think that education as a major in college would decrease pretty significantly.

Which would in turn decrease the available pool of teachers, raising the market salary, thus attracting more to the profession until an equilibrium was formed between supply and demand.

I love free markets.

CinciX12;687359 wrote:If we invoked genocide on the teachers who didn't meet standards I think that education as a major in college would decrease pretty significantly.

Because that is what is being on the plate, right? Telling them to add to their pensions is equivalent to gassing them.

Again, I have no idea what they are thinking, which is why I have posted so much recently. This is one of the most bizarre events in the last few months, and there have been a lot of bizarre events!

sleeper;687375 wrote:Which would in turn decrease the available pool of teachers, raising the market salary, thus attracting more to the profession until an equilibrium was formed between supply and demand.

I love free markets.

A good analogy, at least in the current setup. If CBA's were to be eliminated, wouldn't it stand to reason that the laws of supply and demand (in the teaching profession) wouldn't apply? The market salary would be dictated by a district's ability to pay, not by how many were available to work.

stlouiedipalma;687382 wrote:A good analogy, at least in the current setup. If CBA's were to be eliminated, wouldn't it stand to reason that the laws of supply and demand (in the teaching profession) wouldn't apply? The market salary would be dictated by a district's ability to pay, not by how many were available to work.

If the district doesn't have enough money to adequately educate the children of the district, they have the right to go to the taxpayers and ask for a levy. If the taxpayers are happy with paying teachers below market wages, thus having a worse education system, then that is their choice. If the taxpayers would like the district to be able to hire the best and brightest teachers, then they have the choice to give the district the money it needs.

Collective bargaining essentially FORCES taxpayers to pay above market wage for their teachers, why not let the people of that district decide? It also destroys incentives for teachers to be good, as they are only paid by years of experience and education level, not on their merit. Teachers are now doing the minimal they can do to get by, so by paying their overinflated wages, taxpayers are not getting as high as of a return of their investment, as evidenced by Quaker's link.

Bigdogg;687346 wrote:First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.

-Martin Niemöller 1933

How trite and inaccurate ...

fan_from_texas;687354 wrote:Limiting collective bargaining rights when the average teacher in one of the worst school districts in the country pulls in total comp. over $100k isn't exactly the same thing as deporting millions of Jews to Auschwitz to kill them. Just sayin'.

Moreover, nobody is "coming" for Socialists here. Most here just don't want our political system to be influenced BY Socialism, as it was not set up to be so.

Much like it should not be influenced by one particular religious institution or another, because it is not intended to be, but that's another can of worms.

CinciX12;687359 wrote:If we invoked genocide on the teachers who didn't meet standards I think that education as a major in college would decrease pretty significantly.

Which would then drive up the demand for teachers ... which would then drive up the compensation of teachers in order to attract them. This is how free market works.

Why do you think the average salary to be a medical doctor is so high? It's because there is a demand. Not that many people (relatively) end up with both the education and the skills to have a career as a doctor, because it takes a LOT of schooling, an exhaustive amount of knowledge of the human body, a willingness to undertake the legal risks of taking someone's life into your hands, and usually a lot of DEBT in order to be qualified. Since the demand is higher than the supply, the compensation packages are aggressive, so as to attract those within the supply.

If you gassed the teachers that didn't make the cut (I'm going to ignore the fact that it's not even close to what we're talking about), fewer would come out of university with the qualifications and skills and desire to do so. Thus, if a school wanted a good, educated, qualified teacher, they'd have to offer a very competitive compensation package. Otherwise, they wouldn't attract any.

That is precisely how it works in the private sector, and it is precisely why highly paid professionals are highly paid, and why other professionals are not as highly paid: supply and demand. It really is as simple as that.

sleeper;687375 wrote:I love free markets.

Yay! Employment structures that make sense!

stlouiedipalma;687382 wrote:A good analogy, at least in the current setup. If CBA's were to be eliminated, wouldn't it stand to reason that the laws of supply and demand (in the teaching profession) wouldn't apply? The market salary would be dictated by a district's ability to pay, not by how many were available to work.

Not necessarily. It may affect the quality (barring someone with a true passion for a particular group of kids, regardless of pay ... perish the thought ) or the quantity.

If those in that district would want more highly qualified teachers, THEN they could vote on the issues as such, move, or find teachers who are qualified but inexperienced (whether we like it or not, experience still does matter, even in the private sector, when determining pay or employment). It would require more than just trying to squeeze blood out of an onion, though, as if the districts didn't have the ability to pay, they probably are in trouble already.

Dems are on the run ...... This is so funny ...... run and hide

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/22/democrats-stay-away-indiana-house-amid-union-protests/

Belly35;687415 wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/22/democrats-stay-away-indiana-house-amid-union-protests/

That bill would prohibit union representation fees from being a condition of employment.

Ugh, don't get me started on THAT policy.

O-Trap;687391 wrote:How trite and inaccurate ...


Moreover, nobody is "coming" for Socialists here. Most here just don't want our political system to be influenced BY Socialism, as it was not set up to be so.

I did not think many of you would be i********* enough to get it. The message is if you fail to speak out against injustice, you will suffer the consequences. Even though you seem intent of waving anything that is right for the common good, there still some of us out here that will speak against what is wrong. The free market was already tried and failed in our recent history.

Bigdogg;687431 wrote:I did not think many of you would be i********* enough to get it. Even though you seem intent of waving anything that is right for the common good, there still some of us out here that will speak against what is wrong. The free market was already tried and failed in our recent history.

Do tell.

O-Trap;687429 wrote:Ugh, don't get me started on THAT policy.

Fox news is where you get your information? That explains a lot.

Bigdogg;687332 wrote:A group of right wing bloggers taking the low road again. I could put up a piece from the other side but why bother. I personally think it will be bad for the Republican party to get the masses motivated to turn out in the next elections. The gap between the richest and the middle class increases exponentially every year. Even Greenspan knows that capitalism will not survive if this trend continues.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/9382745.stm

You know what? You're right- start the forceful confiscation of 50% of the assets of all individuals, small businesses, and corporations worth more than $75,000 in Wisconsin, and hand that over to the public sector unions who are protesting. Problem solved.

Belly35;687415 wrote:Dems are on the run ...... This is so funny ...... run and hide

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/22/democrats-stay-away-indiana-house-amid-union-protests/

Austin said Republicans have put forth a radical agenda that will hurt families and that Democratic proposals have been rejected out of hand.

That's right- anyone who says people can't be forced to join unions and pay dues is a radical of the highest order.

The dividing line between right and wrong, ERRRRRR, right and left, gets clearer and clearer every day . . .

Bigdogg;687431 wrote:I did not think many of you would be i********* enough to get it. The message is if you fail to speak out against injustice, you will suffer the consequences. .

I agree. That is why most of us continue to speak out about the injustice of the militant union control of the public education monopoly which is failing our children and damning them to a third rate education and a backseat in life. We can no longer stand idly by and allow this injustice to occur, and for the children to suffer the consequences.

why not let the state bargain with the unions...thats what bargaining is right? if there is no money then they give their proposals as to what they can pay and give the union a chance to respond and so on and so forth. dissolving the union is no worse than the dems not showing up.... the union is capaple of making concessions or at least should be given the chance to .

i notice these politicians arent taking a cut and they pay less and get more in their pensions than this bill calls for wtf?

QuakerOats;687452 wrote:I agree. That is why most of us continue to speak out about the injustice of the militant union control of the public education monopoly which is failing our children and damning them to a third rate education and a backseat in life. We can no longer stand idly by and allow this injustice to occur, and for the children to suffer the consequences.

Way to put the "leash" on doggie's do do.

Gblock;687462 wrote:i notice these politicians arent taking a cut and they pay less and get more in their pensions than this bill calls for wtf?

Well, that is obviously different. They earned all that. While we are at it lets eliminate the Department of Labor, The EPA and all those silly health and safety regulations that stifle business. Let it rain free market for one and all.

also is the private sector doing well?? hows that working for our economy? why is everyone keep saying private sector private sector like its a shining example of how things should be run...if im not mistaken its the private sector that got us into this mess.

Bigdogg;687469 wrote: While we are at it lets eliminate the Department of Labor, The EPA and all those silly health and safety regulations that stifle business. Let it rain free market for one and all.

Alas ................. change we can believe in .........