Writerbuckeye;683365 wrote:That's a lot of money for an AVERAGE teacher's salary and benefits.

It's also not sustainable, I'd think, for just about any school district. The taxes would have to keep going up, up, up.

Which is why we have these proposals on the table now, and why they need to be passed. The pendulum has swung so out of control the other way it's hurting the ability of local bodies (schools, counties, etc.) to control their budgets without having to keep raising taxes. And that's not how the real world works.

Most of us can't simply go get more money from our friends and neighbors if we decide our salary should be higher, our pensions better, or we want a new TV.

It shouldn't be allowed in the public sector, either.

THIS and a half

Oh and I've not seen even one board lefty come on here and defend the cowardice of these Democrat legislators in Wisconsin. Of course, I haven't seen any of them condemn it, either.

If Republicans pulled this childish stunt, you'd be all over it (and rightfully so).

As someone you libs think very fondly of recently said: elections have consequences.

So Mr. President: how about you let those consequences happen as they should instead of encouraging this bad behavior by these petulant little children?

Writerbuckeye;683486 wrote:Oh and I've not seen even one board lefty come on here and defend the cowardice of these Democrat legislators in Wisconsin. Of course, I haven't seen any of them condemn it, either.

If Republicans pulled this childish stunt, you'd be all over it (and rightfully so).

As someone you libs think very fondly of recently said: elections have consequences.

So Mr. President: how about you let those consequences happen as they should instead of encouraging this bad behavior by these petulant little children?

CHEERS!!!

I don't get all the fuss. Teachers are paid fairly, there's a range obviously, but I don't consider them over or underpaid. Don't have much problem with the benefits, either, but it's the same problem as other guaranteed pensions (i.e Big 3, govt, etc..) in that the benefit rate was set based on historic AVERAGE stock returns, and volatility and lower average returns the past decade have caused massive underfunding.

Have the pay raises been that exhorbitant? Seems like they probably track inflation. I know in this Great Recession that leaves a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths who've lost jobs or seen hours and wages CUT. I'm just not sure what there is to really gain by eliminating the CBA. By the same token, if you're a good (or even just a little below average) teacher I'm not sure what you have to worry about. School districts and tax payers are going to have to pony up competitive comp packages, at least with surrounding districts but to a lesser extent other states/cities, to keep good teachers.

fish82;683256 wrote:A good chunk of it is benefits...I think the actual salary is 50-60K.(ish)

I don't begrudge teaches a single penny they make...they, cops and firefighters ought to be very well compensated for what they do. My issue is that private sector wages have decreased drastically over the past 3+ years. Companies are cutting pay/benefits 5-20% to stay afloat. Public sector workers should be subject to that same burden to balance state budgets. It sucks, but it's reality.

100k total comp is obscene. 50-60k in salary for 9-10 months (let's not start that debate) is fair. 40k in benefits is ridiculous. Your average college educated professional would be lucky to have 20k in benefits and probably earns in the 60-80k range. I think 80k total comp is a more than fair number, and that's probably still a bit high.

The guest on this show, supporting the protests in WI., gets exposed as a purebred jackass in high heels lol

[video=youtube;-mVlqYVLVu8][/video]


YouTube - Teachers Call-In Sick to Protest for Higher Pay?

^^^hahah....I like the part where the guy says "collective bargaining is a god-given right". Can't believe the host missed that, too hung-up on the calling in sick.

gut;683491 wrote:Teachers are paid fairly, there's a range obviously, but I don't consider them over or underpaid.

Some teachers? I strongly agree. Some teachers are worth every penny, and I will gladly pay my local taxes to help support their employment.

Others? No. $100K (if Ohio is comparable to Wisconsin in this respect) is TWICE what they should be making in total compensation.

gut;683498 wrote:100k total comp is obscene. 50-60k in salary for 9-10 months (let's not start that debate) is fair. 40k in benefits is ridiculous. Your average college educated professional would be lucky to have 20k in benefits and probably earns in the 60-80k range. I think 80k total comp is a more than fair number, and that's probably still a bit high.

A college educated professional making a $60-80K salary has a LOT of qualifications and a LOT of experience in his respective field.

Someone with an average skill set and maybe 3-5 years experience can expect maybe $35-40K salary.

gut;683510 wrote:^^^hahah....I like the part where the guy says "collective bargaining is a god-given right". Can't believe the host missed that, too hung-up on the calling in sick.

God was showing that guy mercy by not allowing the host to notice.

Memo to the protesters in Wisconsin, why you've lost a dyed-in-the wool liberal like Joe Klein, you might want to rethink this whole strategy.

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2011/02/18/wisconsin-the-hemlock-revolution/

Manhattan Buckeye;683536 wrote:Memo to the protesters in Wisconsin, why you've lost a dyed-in-the wool liberal like Joe Klein, you might want to rethink this whole strategy.
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2011/02/18/wisconsin-the-hemlock-revolution/

Good article!

I have to believe the people of Wisconsin are furious right now. If a bunch of legislators in Ohio took off like that to avoid a controversial vote (I don't care what party they are), I'd want them all thrown out of office.

There is no excuse for this. None. It smacks of the spoiled little child who doesn't get its way and runs into the bathroom and slams the door, refusing to come out.

And the fact that teachers in Wisconsin brought their students as props to the demonstrations is even more disgusting. Those folks should be immediately fired -- Oh wait, their union contract probably won't allow it.

W.B., makes me wonder how many Ohio teachers did that!

And you're right, teachers that did that... need to be fired immediately!

There are photos from the Wisconsin rally showing someone claiming to be a doctor who is handing out medical excuses to those at the demonstration who might need them before returning to work.

Assuming it's true, that doctor should lose their medical license, and any teacher turning in one of those phony excuse forms should be fired.

Oh and I've still not seen any of our resident liberals on here defending what the union and teachers are doing in Wisconsin. Wonder why that is?

EDIT

Here's the photo...

Writerbuckeye;683936 wrote:Oh and I've still not seen any of our resident liberals on here defending what the union and teachers are doing in Wisconsin. Wonder why that is?

Oooooh, oooooh Pick me PICK ME!

Is anyone else disturbed by the hateful anti government protests in Wisconsin? The sheer anger and vitriol on display by the left wing protestors is both shocking and terrifying. During news coverage the past few days, I have seen signs comparing Governor Scott Walker to Hitler, Mussolini, and Mubarek. Another group of protestors chanted "dictator" over and over. One person even had a poster with bullseye target over Walker's name.

Who is whipping up this hatred and anger in these people? How much of a role do the Ed Schultz's and Arianna Huffington's of the world have in fanning the flames of anti-government rhetoric? Don't they know that their words might possibly lead to violence by one of these left wing nutjobs?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71gsnLfsbbM&feature=player_embedded

2quik: I said this before, if this were a conservative-based rally it would be the lead story on every network (the hateful signs), with more stories about how there is too much "hate" in our national discourse. Of course, I haven't seen one such story on any MSM regarding Wisconsin. And we won't. The media won't take down people they agree with.

2quik4u;684025 wrote: One person even had a poster with bullseye target over Walker's name.

The same sort of imagery the left pounded against when Gifford got shot?

Writerbuckeye;684041 wrote:2quik: I said this before, if this were a conservative-based rally it would be the lead story on every network (the hateful signs), with more stories about how there is too much "hate" in our national discourse. Of course, I haven't seen one such story on any MSM regarding Wisconsin. And we won't. The media won't take down people they agree with.

The media and its' hypocrisy in this country is absolutely disgusting. If the shoe was on the other foot the media would be talking about it NONSTOP. It is a disgusting display by teachers and the democrat legislature as well. Obama should be disgusted with them and should come out against it.

This is disgusting. These same Dem senators pushed through a massive tax bill 2 years ago by signing it in the middle of the night. Now, when the tables are turned, they leave the state to subvert the will of the people.

Disgusting, ridiculous, nonsense. I can't believe this is legal. They should all be recalled. Everyone I've talked to is furious--the idea that teachers (who aren't allowed to strike) all take off work to protest, shutting down the schools . . . some doctors mass-handing out doctors notes . . . subversion of justice. Unbelievable.

Writerbuckeye;683936 wrote: Oh and I've still not seen any of our resident liberals on here defending what the union and teachers are doing in Wisconsin. Wonder why that is?

I don't think I'm a liberal but you guys do so I'll answer.

Because what they're doing is stupid.

I Wear Pants;684252 wrote:I don't think I'm a liberal but you guys do so I'll answer.

Because what they're doing is stupid.

The general consensus among WI liberals I've talked to is that teachers have a "god-given right" to collectively bargain over non-wage items, and as such, any action they have to take to get what they want is okay, even if that means lying, walking off the job, etc. This whole episode makes me livid. Other public workers are threatening to walk off jobs now, even though they're prohibited from striking by law. I hope Walker stands firm and puts a stop to this nonsense.

They need to start firing people and replacing them.

Writerbuckeye;684281 wrote:They need to start firing people and replacing them.

I agree. Walker should pull a Reagan-like PATCO maneuver on these idiots. I have no doubt that there are PLENTY of well-educated folks out there who would be most happy to take these jobs at a much more reasonable salary/benefits package AND not be beholden to the teachers unions.

Meanwhile Walker and Wisconsin senate Repubs should be taking steps to determine what - if any - legal action can be taken to discipline the Wisconsin senate Dems for running and hiding. They also need to investigate any - if any - medical authorities who participated in this nonsense by handing out bogus "sick" slips and have these liars fined to the fullest extent of the law.

This whole stunt clearly demonstrates how out of touch and wacky the leftists have become.

Looks like two "doctors" writing slips. They may just be protestors playing dressup, who knows? But it sure looks like they've got people waiting for their notes.

cashews

CenterBHSFan;684366 wrote:cashews

luld

Writerbuckeye;684281 wrote:They need to start firing people and replacing them.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/20/12g-state-workers-fired-budget-deal-wisconsin-governor-warns/

I guess when you don't get your way, you run away and hide, and you get your activist/agitator president to bus in 70,000 protestors. ............... change we can believe in........