You know, don't you, that the Wisconsin bill is just a precursor to what is coming to Ohio?

stlouiedipalma;683119 wrote:You know, don't you, that the Wisconsin bill is just a precursor to what is coming to Ohio?

Yep, there's a thread on it that I just posted on a few minutes ago, and it's all over the news and paper.

I have absolutely NO problem with it at all. In fact, I support SB5.

Yeah, I've seen that thread. Sounds like it's going to be fun to watch from a distance.

stlouiedipalma;683102 wrote:There's no doubt that they are trying to save money. I don't argue that point. It's just convenient that the one measure they have proposed thus far gets the pebble out of their shoe, so to speak.

So it benefits them and serves the overall public interest? What the hell's wrong with that?

stlouiedipalma;683072 wrote:Sorry, I made that last post without looking at the numbers which were quoted. Saving $300 million over a budget with a $3.6 billion deficit should go a long way toward balancing things, don't you think? If I had to guess, I'd say that Walker and Co. are doing this for the political advantage.

This was one of many parts of Walker's platform. We knew what he wanted to do, and we overwhelmingly voted for him and took WI red for the first time in a long time (if not the first time ever). The people overwhelmingly wanted to see significant change, and we insist on having. Some Ds playing hooky, along with a bunch of self-entitled college kids protesting as a way to get outside on the nicest day in months, doesn't sway anyone.

fan_from_texas;683138 wrote:This was one of many parts of Walker's platform. We knew what he wanted to do, and we overwhelmingly voted for him and took WI red for the first time in a long time (if not the first time ever). The people overwhelmingly wanted to see significant change, and we insist on having. Some Ds playing hooky, along with a bunch of self-entitled college kids protesting as a way to get outside on the nicest day in months, doesn't sway anyone.

Hey, if the majority of voters want that then they should have it.

Come back in about a year or two and let us know how things are working out in Wisconsin. Hell, if it works then other states will probably emulate this move.

fan_from_texas;683138 wrote:This was one of many parts of Walker's platform. We knew what he wanted to do, and we overwhelmingly voted for him and took WI red for the first time in a long time (if not the first time ever). The people overwhelmingly wanted to see significant change, and we insist on having. Some Ds playing hooky, along with a bunch of self-entitled college kids protesting as a way to get outside on the nicest day in months, doesn't sway anyone.

Stick to your guns (assuming you are allowed to have them in WI ..... just kidding). I loved it when Walker told obama to buzz off becaue he has his own budget problem in D.C. Classic!

QuakerOats;683144 wrote:Stick to your guns (assuming you are allowed to have them in WI ..... just kidding). I loved it when Walker told obama to buzz off becaue he has his own budget problem in D.C. Classic!

Good for him. Nice to see a Governor stand up to the Fed. Of course, that works both ways. Maybe sometime in the future Obama can return the favor when Walker needs federal funding for one thing or another.

Just came across an interesting nugget of info...anyone wanna guess what the average teacher comp package for the Milwaukee Public Schools is?

fish, you're driving us crazy with anticipation...

fish82;683156 wrote:Just came across an interesting nugget of info...anyone wanna guess what the average teacher salary for the Milwaukee Public Schools is?

Average is tricky under that structure, because it has everything to do with time on the job. Thus, it can't be a telltale stat, in and of itself. The average can be swayed drastically, based on whether or not timeline is heavy at one end or the other.

However, having said all that, I'm going to guess more than I've ever made at a job: $45,000.

I'll guess it's around $72,000

stlouiedipalma;683166 wrote:I'll guess it's around $72,000

Damn! That'd be amazing! Hell, if it went to merit-based pay, the low end would STILL be awesome!

Tree fitty?

Don't forget that total compensation includes all fringe benefits, including health care and contributions to the retirement system.

That's why you see a lot of districts in Ohio re-hiring superintendents after they retire. They pay salary only when they do this and save the district all of the other costs.

fish, these are strictly teachers' salaries, correct? Don't be slippin' administrators into the mix now.

100 bills....salary and bennies....teachers only. Admins not included.

stlouiedipalma;683171 wrote:Don't forget that total compensation includes all fringe benefits, including health care and contributions to the retirement system.

That's why you see a lot of districts in Ohio re-hiring superintendents after they retire. They pay salary only when they do this and save the district all of the other costs.

Ah, good point.

fish82;683181 wrote:100 bills....salary and bennies....teachers only. Admins not included.

I don't understand what you just said. LOL!

I'm assuming this is translated: "$100,000 ... salary and benefits combined ... and this applies only to teachers. Administrators are not included."

stlouiedipalma;683143 wrote:Hey, if the majority of voters want that then they should have it.

Come back in about a year or two and let us know how things are working out in Wisconsin. Hell, if it works then other states will probably emulate this move.

In a year or two, I'll let you know how things are working out. For full disclosure, I didn't vote for Walker, as he is a bit too conservative for my tastes. But our state overwhelmingly voted for him on a platform made up precisely of issues like these. I think it's disingenuous for losers in the political process to take their ball and go home rather than play by the rules.

I was okay with Obama pushing through his agenda (e.g., healthcare, appointing judges I didn't really like). And I'm okay with Walker pushing through his agenda. If it sucks, he'll get ousted, and someone else will take a shot. But there's no need to be a sore loser like is going on with the Ds in the state senate here. This is exactly why we voted them out!

fan_from_texas;683196 wrote:In a year or two, I'll let you know how things are working out. For full disclosure, I didn't vote for Walker, as he is a bit too conservative for my tastes. But our state overwhelmingly voted for him on a platform made up precisely of issues like these. I think it's disingenuous for losers in the political process to take their ball and go home rather than play by the rules.

I was okay with Obama pushing through his agenda (e.g., healthcare, appointing judges I didn't really like). And I'm okay with Walker pushing through his agenda. If it sucks, he'll get ousted, and someone else will take a shot. But there's no need to be a sore loser like is going on with the Ds in the state senate here. This is exactly why we voted them out!

Fair enough!

fish82;683181 wrote:100 bills....salary and bennies....teachers only. Admins not included.

Wow! A long, long, long time ago I was in college to be a teacher. That was when the starting salaries for teachers in Ohio was somewhere around $8,000-$12,000. I got sidetracked and got into another profession, but I never looked back. Looks like they've improved their lot, at least in Milwaukee.

stlouiedipalma;683210 wrote:Wow! A long, long, long time ago I was in college to be a teacher. That was when the starting salaries for teachers in Ohio was somewhere around $8,000-$12,000. I got sidetracked and got into another profession, but I never looked back. Looks like they've improved their lot, at least in Milwaukee.

A good chunk of it is benefits...I think the actual salary is 50-60K.(ish)

I don't begrudge teaches a single penny they make...they, cops and firefighters ought to be very well compensated for what they do. My issue is that private sector wages have decreased drastically over the past 3+ years. Companies are cutting pay/benefits 5-20% to stay afloat. Public sector workers should be subject to that same burden to balance state budgets. It sucks, but it's reality.

That's a lot of money for an AVERAGE teacher's salary and benefits.

It's also not sustainable, I'd think, for just about any school district. The taxes would have to keep going up, up, up.

Which is why we have these proposals on the table now, and why they need to be passed. The pendulum has swung so out of control the other way it's hurting the ability of local bodies (schools, counties, etc.) to control their budgets without having to keep raising taxes. And that's not how the real world works.

Most of us can't simply go get more money from our friends and neighbors if we decide our salary should be higher, our pensions better, or we want a new TV.

It shouldn't be allowed in the public sector, either.

Writerbuckeye;683365 wrote:That's a lot of money for an AVERAGE teacher's salary and benefits.

It's also not sustainable, I'd think, for just about any school district. The taxes would have to keep going up, up, up.

Which is why we have these proposals on the table now, and why they need to be passed. The pendulum has swung so out of control the other way it's hurting the ability of local bodies (schools, counties, etc.) to control their budgets without having to keep raising taxes. And that's not how the real world works.

Most of us can't simply go get more money from our friends and neighbors if we decide our salary should be higher, our pensions better, or we want a new TV.

It shouldn't be allowed in the public sector, either.

+1,000,000