jmog;965278 wrote:I would say that the way you described teachers is at best 10-20% of HS teachers and nearly zero on any grade school or middle school.

Hardly ANY teachers that are teaching math have a math degree and just happen to get a teaching cert. Most get an education degree and just take the required math courses in college to be certified to teach HS math.

I would venture to say that most HS teachers have teaching degrees with having enough coursework to be certified in their respective courses.

Trust me, I WISH most HS math teachers actually had a math degree, physics teachers had a physics degree, etc because that would make them much better teachers on the subject in my opinion.

When I taught, the more classes you actually had ABOVE the given subject, the more knowledgeable you were making you a better teacher.

For instance, if one was teaching pre-calculus. Having aced pre-calculus would not be suffiecient in teaching the subject. Tutoring maybe, but not teaching. I would say that a teacher should have 2 years of full blown calculus (in semester colleges that is Calc 1, 2, 3, and differential equations) before they should be able to teach pre-calculus. The main reason is that if one has a much greater understanding of the subject, even the parts of the subject that you will NEVER teach, it opens up different avenues of explaination when questions arise in class.

You might be right when it comes to history, psychology, etc that a greater number of those teachers actually have degrees in the field they teach and then get a teaching certificate. However, in math, physics, chemistry, etc that is WAY off. Hardly any in those fields at the HS level have BS degrees in the field they teach.

It would be great if they did, but they do not.

bigdaddy2003;964988 wrote:I was just about to post this. I know a lot of people that couldn't tell you what was going but that they had friends/family who were union members that may be affected.

LJ;965022 wrote:They still have to be tested though. I am actually offended that you would put a freaking teacher on the same level as a Dr. or a Lawyer. My wife is a Veterinarian and I can tell you that a teacher is nowhere on her level of education, sacrfice, or practical knowledge BEFORE licensure.

wkfan;965045 wrote:What was their undergrad degree in? I would bet it is in Math EDUCATION, English, EDUCATION, etc. These courses of study are light in the subject matter (i.e. Mathematics, English) and contain courses in Education.

As I stated very explicitely in my example, many people are getting their undergrad degree in their subject matter..i.e. Mathematics. You cannot teach as a regular classroom teacher in the State of Ohio with a Bachelor Degree in Mathematics without taking coursework in Education methods, etc in order to qualify for a teaching license.

Please re-read my original post and you will find that is exactly the picture that I painted.

jmog;965299 wrote:I've found in my days 2 things when it comes to education majors in college and later teachers.

1. They believe their degree is just as hard to obtain as many others (engineering, science related like pre-med, law degrees, etc) and should be paid accordingly.
2. They are wrong. MANY people I went to college with who couldn't pass the coursework in engineering or science related fields transferred to the college of education and graduated with no problems.

O-Trap;965243 wrote:He literally said that people with 13 years of education on the matter don't need 4 more. You ASSUMED that meant he doesn't think they need ANY more, but that's not what he said in a literal sense.

wkfan;965292 wrote:While I agree with most of what you said...the trend currently is to have teachers get undergrad degrees in their subject matter and take graduate courses in teaching methods. Many fo the better districts prefer this model due to the greater depth of knowledge in the subject mater that it brings.

My point was that this is the trend of the future...not of the past. Not to mention, what I said is how it does happen today for many.

QuakerOats;965147 wrote:http://www.cleveland.com/obrien/index.ssf/2011/11/issue_2_the_hidden_price_of_no.html

Read it and weep. It is hard to believe how dumb some people are.

QuakerOats;965106 wrote:You mean 'public unions' are strong in Ohio .... the state itself is weak, and the backs of middle class taxpayers are broken. Hope you are happy.

QuakerOats;965147 wrote:http://www.cleveland.com/obrien/index.ssf/2011/11/issue_2_the_hidden_price_of_no.html

Read it and weep. It is hard to believe how dumb some people are.

LJ;965107 wrote:So you think your mother can be completely emotionally detached from her son on an issue that would affect him directly?

Seriously now.

jmog;965308 wrote:I'm sorry, but you are sadly mistaken if you think a BS in education with certification in high school level mathematics is anywhere CLOSE to the mathematics coursework required for a BS in mathematics.

Are there SOME teachers that have a BS in mathematics and then got a teaching certification, yes.
Is this the norm? Not even close, you are stretching facts, most HS math teachers were education majors that took enough math classes to be certified to teach math. There is a HUGE difference in the coursework requirements.

Gblock;965465 wrote:teaching is also an art. it is more than just knowing information, you are failing to mention this. much of what you gain in experience is not what you know, but what you can teach to others and get them to remember it as well. i know lots of smart guys who would never be able to teach. the best teachers are those who can do both, but many of the best teachers i had werent the smartest

ernest_t_bass;965433 wrote:bated

BRF;965476 wrote:

Glory Days;957651 wrote:John Glenn voting no on Issue 2!........

QuakerOats;965074 wrote:Maybe I should rephrase it for your benefit:

Absent those who directly/indirectly benefit from the public trough, EVERYONE voted for SB5/Issue 2. Get it now?

I Wear Pants;966277 wrote:Lol are you kidding me?

"Anyone who doesn't agree with me obviously has nefarious reasons for doing so and everyone who does agree with me is part of the glorious intellectual master race who works super hard and is always exploited".

GTFO.

I Wear Pants;966277 wrote:Lol are you kidding me?

GTFO.

I Wear Pants;966266 wrote:John Glenn is a joke. I had to listen to that motherfucker give a speech on education in San Diego in like 99 or something. It was awful. Even if it wasn't awful, why the hell do I care what John Glenn thinks about a political issue?

Gblock;965465 wrote:teaching is also an art. it is more than just knowing information, you are failing to mention this. much of what you gain in experience is not what you know, but what you can teach to others and get them to remember it as well. i know lots of smart guys who would never be able to teach. the best teachers are those who can do both, but many of the best teachers i had werent the smartest

jmog;965308 wrote:I'm sorry, but you are sadly mistaken if you think a BS in education with certification in high school level mathematics is anywhere CLOSE to the mathematics coursework required for a BS in mathematics.

Are there SOME teachers that have a BS in mathematics and then got a teaching certification, yes.
Is this the norm? Not even close, you are stretching facts, most HS math teachers were education majors that took enough math classes to be certified to teach math. There is a HUGE difference in the coursework requirements.

jmog;966347 wrote:I agree 100% with what you said, there is a reason I never try to tell my kids grade school teachers how to teach math/science even though I know that I know a ton more about math and science than they do. I am not equipped nor do I have the ability nor the patience to teach grade school level math/science. I just don't know how to do it.

What I was talking about was the idea that someone said that a BS in education with the required math classes to teach HS math is basically just like a BS in math with coursework to teach.

This is 100% not true, a BS in math has many more math courses and is much harder than the math coursework required to teach HS math.