LJ;965094 wrote:Because she is emotionally attached to you, and your concerns worry her and your happiness affects her. C'mon that's pretty obvious.

She is her own woman and can vote however she wants. I never once discussed SB5 with her.

Power to the people. We are strong Ohio. SB5 didn't have a chance. Dead in the water. Case closed..

bonelizzard;965102 wrote:Power to the people. We are strong Ohio.

You mean 'public unions' are strong in Ohio .... the state itself is weak, and the backs of middle class taxpayers are broken. Hope you are happy.

ernest_t_bass;965097 wrote:She is her own woman and can vote however she wants. I never once discussed SB5 with her.

So you think your mother can be completely emotionally detached from her son on an issue that would affect him directly?

Seriously now.

QuakerOats;965106 wrote:You mean 'public unions' are strong in Ohio .... the state itself is weak, and the backs of middle class taxpayers are broken. Hope you are happy.

I am thanks..

bonelizzard;965113 wrote:I am thanks..

As expected ............. typical arrogance of public sector greed. Congrat's.

QuakerOats;965118 wrote:As expected ............. typical arrogance of public sector greed. Congrat's.

Arrogance for serving others.. Huh, don't quite understand that. But, that's ok.. Good try.

bonelizzard;965121 wrote:Arrogance for serving others.. Huh, don't quite understand that. But, that's ok.. Good try.

Many of your counterparts have the arrogance to strike against those they serve.

bonelizzard;965121 wrote:Arrogance for serving others.. Huh, don't quite understand that. But, that's ok.. Good try.

Serving others ......... hmm, I didn't realize it was all pro bono.

wkfan;965019 wrote:Again, you are entitled to your opinion.

So, I'm assuming that you are OK with your children being taught by people who have never taken a class in how to teach, or even have a college class?? After all, they went to school for 13 years in those subjects.

I never said that. A year or two of specialized classes is plenty of education, which is what you get when you throw out the BS classes that they force you to take to fill up 4 years of college.

http://www.cleveland.com/obrien/index.ssf/2011/11/issue_2_the_hidden_price_of_no.html

Read it and weep. It is hard to believe how dumb some people are.

se-alum;965143 wrote:I never said that. A year or two of specialized classes is plenty of education, which is what you get when you throw out the BS classes that they force you to take to fill up 4 years of college.

That is exactly what you said. 13 years of Education is Kindergarten through High School

se-alum;964881 wrote:Are you really comparing Teachers to Doctors & Lawyers?? Tell me this, why does a 4th grade math teacher need a Bachelors Degree to teach simple math procedures? It makes no sense. Does a high school Social Studies teacher really need 4 years of college to teach stuff they already had 13 years of education in?? College for the most part is a money grab, that forces people to take courses they absolutely do not need to be proficient in their respective field.

LJ;965047 wrote:That doesn't make it the same, whatsoever. You can take that coursework in undergrad, as many did. Ohio does not require you to have an advanced degree to become a licensed teacher. It does to become a Dr or a Lawyer. Not only that, but you have to test into said programs.

LJ,

Ohio requires teachers to work toward an advanced degree to keep your license. This started with the college graduates of 2002. Meaning, yes they have to take the GRE. Most of the classes are course on teaching methodology, educational research and statistics, education law, and classroom leadership.

QuakerOats;965147 wrote:http://www.cleveland.com/obrien/index.ssf/2011/11/issue_2_the_hidden_price_of_no.html

Read it and weep. It is hard to believe how dumb some people are.

The problem is, nobody thinks this stuff will happen to them, and they could care less about the well-being of others in their field.

wkfan;965173 wrote:That is exactly what you said. 13 years of Education is Kindergarten through High School

Can you bold and underline where I said they need NO further education? Didn't think so. I said 4 years is overkill. Two years of specialized higher education is plenty.

se-alum;965184 wrote:Can you bold and underline where I said they need NO further education? Didn't think so. I said 4 years is overkill. Two years of specialized higher education is plenty.

OK....here you go. In saying what is in bold, underlined AND italicized below, you are saying that taking 13 years of social studies is enough to teach social studies at the high school level.

If that is not what you meant, maybe you should rephrase it.

se-alum;964881 wrote:Are you really comparing Teachers to Doctors & Lawyers?? Tell me this, why does a 4th grade math teacher need a Bachelors Degree to teach simple math procedures? It makes no sense. Does a high school Social Studies teacher really need 4 years of college to teach stuff they already had 13 years of education in?? College for the most part is a money grab, that forces people to take courses they absolutely do not need to be proficient in their respective field.

wkfan;965196 wrote:OK....here you go. In saying what is in bold, underlined AND italicized below, you are saying that taking 13 years of social studies is enough to teach social studies at the high school level.

If that is not what you meant, maybe you should rephrase it.

Lol...comprehension has escaped you. I have not once said that no further education is needed. I said 4 years is too much, that doesn't mean that I think they don't need any. You're trying to act as if I said something that I didn't, just for the sake of your argument.

se-alum;965204 wrote:Lol...comprehension has escaped you. I have not once said that no further education is needed. I said 4 years is too much, that doesn't mean that I think they don't need any. You're trying to act as if I said something that I didn't, just for the sake of your argument.

nope...just taking the words that you said literally.

coach_bob1;965176 wrote:LJ,

Ohio requires teachers to work toward an advanced degree to keep your license. This started with the college graduates of 2002. Meaning, yes they have to take the GRE. Most of the classes are course on teaching methodology, educational research and statistics, education law, and classroom leadership.

Not every program requires a GRE score

• A completed application to the Graduate School, available online or at one of the five program centers;
• A $30.00 application fee;
• An official transcript showing a bachelor's degree from an accredited college or university;
• Cumulative grade point average of 2.75 or above (4.0 system);
• A copy of the State of Ohio teaching license/certificate or its equivalent;
• A letter stating teaching experience from superintendent or principal of school, for a non certified and/or non teaching experienced student having a GPA of 2.75, two letters of recommendation;
• A completed Good Moral Character form;
• A personal interview with the M.Ed. resident program director.

http://www.ashland.edu/content/pages/admission-process-graduate-education-programs

I would say it is harder to get accepted to Med school, Law school or Vet School than education grad school. Plus said programs take a MINIMUM 7-8 years before they can even test for licensure....

A teacher? 4 years

He literally said that people with 13 years of education on the matter don't need 4 more. You ASSUMED that meant he doesn't think they need ANY more, but that's not what he said in a literal sense.

wkfan;965023 wrote:This..along with HB136 will eb the end of public education in the State of Ohio, if John Kasich has his way.

If public education ends up dying, it will be by assisted suicide. The assist will come from the OEA.

As for Kasich cutting funds to locals as part of closing a state budget: that's exactly what he should do. Since when is the State of Ohio responsible for funding all these local entities throughout the state? If locals want these services and they're that critical to the community, they'll find a way to fund them.

Bigger and bigger state government, just like bigger and bigger federal government is not a responsible answer to the question of how to improve our quality of life.

QuakerOats;965147 wrote:http://www.cleveland.com/obrien/index.ssf/2011/11/issue_2_the_hidden_price_of_no.html

Read it and weep. It is hard to believe how dumb some people are.

Thanks for the reading material. I printed it off an used it to wipe my toosh. Looks like the ones supporting issue 2 were the dumb looking folks to me.. according to the polls...

Writerbuckeye;965255 wrote:If public education ends up dying, it will be by assisted suicide. The assist will come from the OEA.

As for Kasich cutting funds to locals as part of closing a state budget: that's exactly what he should do. Since when is the State of Ohio responsible for funding all these local entities throughout the state? If locals want these services and they're that critical to the community, they'll find a way to fund them.

Bigger and bigger state government, just like bigger and bigger federal government is not a responsible answer to the question of how to improve our quality of life.

I would much rather pay more local tax than state or federal. You are right on.

wkfan;964868 wrote:So you two would be OK with a person with an undergrad degree in biology and no advanced degree operating on you or a person with an undergrad degree in pre-law but no law school representing you in court?

Same principle....MANY teachers have their undergraduate degree in their subject matter, say Mathematics. If they want to TEACH mathematics, they need to go graduate school to get their teaching lincesure... which is 85% - 90% of the way to a Master degree...and gives them their knowledge and practical experience of HOW to teach...much like med school or law school gives a lawyer or a doctor the practical knowledge and methods to practice their profession.



Really????

I would say that the way you described teachers is at best 10-20% of HS teachers and nearly zero on any grade school or middle school.

Hardly ANY teachers that are teaching math have a math degree and just happen to get a teaching cert. Most get an education degree and just take the required math courses in college to be certified to teach HS math.

I would venture to say that most HS teachers have teaching degrees with having enough coursework to be certified in their respective courses.

Trust me, I WISH most HS math teachers actually had a math degree, physics teachers had a physics degree, etc because that would make them much better teachers on the subject in my opinion.

When I taught, the more classes you actually had ABOVE the given subject, the more knowledgeable you were making you a better teacher.

For instance, if one was teaching pre-calculus. Having aced pre-calculus would not be suffiecient in teaching the subject. Tutoring maybe, but not teaching. I would say that a teacher should have 2 years of full blown calculus (in semester colleges that is Calc 1, 2, 3, and differential equations) before they should be able to teach pre-calculus. The main reason is that if one has a much greater understanding of the subject, even the parts of the subject that you will NEVER teach, it opens up different avenues of explaination when questions arise in class.

You might be right when it comes to history, psychology, etc that a greater number of those teachers actually have degrees in the field they teach and then get a teaching certificate. However, in math, physics, chemistry, etc that is WAY off. Hardly any in those fields at the HS level have BS degrees in the field they teach.

It would be great if they did, but they do not.

bonelizzard;965273 wrote:Thanks for the reading material. I printed it off an used it to wipe my toosh. Looks like the ones supporting issue 2 were the dumb looking folks to me.. according to the polls...

The polls also elected Obama. Just sayin'.