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IS GOD REAL?

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tcarrier32's avatar

tcarrier32

Senior Member

1,497 posts
Jan 19, 2011 11:01 AM
wkfan;643677 wrote:Jesus was born in December. Christmas is the celebration of Jesus's birth.

Easter is the celebration of His death and, more importantly, His Resurection.

GTFO with your nonsense. If there was a Jesus, he was not born in December. Not up for debate.

i also think its funny that the day Jesus rose from the dead (lol, magic) depends on what year it is.
Jan 19, 2011 11:01am
D

dave

Senior Member

4,558 posts
Jan 19, 2011 11:06 AM
tcarrier32;643784 wrote:
i also think its funny that the day Jesus rose from the dead (lol, magic) depends on what year it is.

you do realize day and date are not the same thing?
Jan 19, 2011 11:06am
password's avatar

password

Senior Member

2,360 posts
Jan 19, 2011 11:15 AM
Sonofanump;643743 wrote:Why in God's name is this not in the politics forum?

Why should it be in the politics forum,Are you offended by God or do you think you are God and you are trying to keep a low profile?
Jan 19, 2011 11:15am
BORIStheCrusher's avatar

BORIStheCrusher

drunk

1,893 posts
Jan 19, 2011 11:46 AM
wkfan;643616 wrote:Yes.

I have seen evidence in Him time and time again. From the look in my children's eyes to the beauty of a sunset to the compassion shown both of my dying parents.

He is real.
I have seen evidence of his nonexistence in murderers, rapists, pedifiles and terrorists.
Jan 19, 2011 11:46am
W

wkfan

Senior Member

1,641 posts
Jan 19, 2011 11:50 AM
BORIStheCrusher;643844 wrote:I have seen evidence of his nonexistence in murderers, rapists, pedifiles and terrorists.
He still exists....the people that you mention have not embraced Him.
Jan 19, 2011 11:50am
Bigred1995's avatar

Bigred1995

Ohio Chatter - CFO

1,042 posts
Jan 19, 2011 11:50 AM
BORIStheCrusher;643844 wrote:I have seen evidence of his nonexistence in murderers, rapists, pedifiles and terrorists.
BUT, those aren't the works of god, but a proof that we have freewill. We are able to do what we want and some people decide to do evil. So when people do these things, they are just exercising their freewill and implementing "god's plan"!
Jan 19, 2011 11:50am
BORIStheCrusher's avatar

BORIStheCrusher

drunk

1,893 posts
Jan 19, 2011 11:53 AM
So god only does good things? He is praised when something good happens but if it's bad it's due to free will.
Jan 19, 2011 11:53am
Bigred1995's avatar

Bigred1995

Ohio Chatter - CFO

1,042 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:00 PM
BORIStheCrusher;643859 wrote:So god only does good things? He is praised when something good happens but if it's bad it's due to free will.
EGGZACKLY!!! Isn't following Christ easy?
Jan 19, 2011 12:00pm
W

wkfan

Senior Member

1,641 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:00 PM
BORIStheCrusher;643859 wrote:So god only does good things? He is praised when something good happens but if it's bad it's due to free will.

God has laid out the 10 Commandments for us to follow. When we do the things that he told us not to, as the people that you mentioned have, they are makign that decision themselves and going against God's will....and using their own free will to decide to do these things.
Jan 19, 2011 12:00pm
Automatik's avatar

Automatik

Senior Member

14,632 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:00 PM
lol....crazy talk up in here.
Jan 19, 2011 12:00pm
Bigred1995's avatar

Bigred1995

Ohio Chatter - CFO

1,042 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:02 PM
wkfan;643874 wrote:God has laid out the 10 Commandments for us to follow. When we do the things that he told us not to, as the people that you mentioned have, they are makign that decision themselves and going against God's will....and using their own free will to decide to do these things.
You're referring to the Ten Commandments that Moses documented on stone tablets and placed in the Arc of the Covenant, right?
Jan 19, 2011 12:02pm
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:04 PM
Bigred1995;643850 wrote:BUT, those aren't the works of god, but a proof that we have freewill. We are able to do what we want and some people decide to do evil. So when people do these things, they are just exercising their freewill and implementing "god's plan"!

exactly

I've said this many, many times when this topic pops up...I cannot look at the incredible vastness of the universe, the complexities of a simple flower, the beauty of a sunset, the intricate interaction of living species, and the birth of a child and NOT believe that we are the creation of an all-powerful, omnipotent, and omni-present God.

It is at least as easy to believe in the possibility that God exists as it it is to buy-off on the notion that we are all some cosmic thing of chance that spawned spontaneously in the primordial goo and evolved over billions of years to our current state.

God created humans for the purpose of worshiping and relying on Him. That worship would have no value if we didn't have a freewill choice to do so. Hence, good and evil co-exist in this world. We are indeed free-agents.
Jan 19, 2011 12:04pm
BORIStheCrusher's avatar

BORIStheCrusher

drunk

1,893 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:16 PM
believer;643881 wrote: God created humans for the purpose of worshiping and relying on Him.

I don't know many people who rely on god so they can live their lives.
Jan 19, 2011 12:16pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:22 PM
tcarrier32;643784 wrote:i also think its funny that the day Jesus rose from the dead (lol, magic) depends on what year it is.
Easter is merely a celebratory day to commemorate the event. The date isn't the significant part.

It's like Thanksgiving. The date the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock doesn't change depending on the year just because the date of Thanksgiving does. The date of Thanksgiving from year to year is a day to commemorate the event. It isn't necessarily to recognize the official date of their landing.

Sauce for the goose and the gander.
password;643799 wrote:Why should it be in the politics forum,Are you offended by God or do you think you are God and you are trying to keep a low profile?

At TOS (The Other Site), religiously themed topics were restricted to the Political Forum, despite the fact that it was not called "Politics/Religion." That is probably why.
Jan 19, 2011 12:22pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:27 PM
BORIStheCrusher;643859 wrote:So god only does good things? He is praised when something good happens but if it's bad it's due to free will.

Are you suggesting that there are things which are inherently good and inherently bad? What evidence is there of this? By what authority is that evidence validated?
Jan 19, 2011 12:27pm
Bigred1995's avatar

Bigred1995

Ohio Chatter - CFO

1,042 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:27 PM
wkfan;643874 wrote:God has laid out the 10 Commandments for us to follow. When we do the things that he told us not to, as the people that you mentioned have, they are makign that decision themselves and going against God's will....and using their own free will to decide to do these things.

Here, I'll be more specific! Are you referring to "The 10 Commandments" referred to in Exodus 34:28?
And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Jan 19, 2011 12:27pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

Senior Member

5,739 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:30 PM
Hb31187;643753 wrote:Until theres solid proof...ill continue to highly doubt it.

And I mean proof proof, not some bullshit story a religious fanatic fabricates.


I'm curious as to what you think would be considered "solid proof" or "proof,proof" for you to believe?
Jan 19, 2011 12:30pm
Bigred1995's avatar

Bigred1995

Ohio Chatter - CFO

1,042 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:32 PM
O-Trap;643921 wrote:Are you suggesting that there are things which are inherently good and inherently bad? What evidence is there of this? By what authority is that evidence validated?

I think he's referring to things we perceive to be good or bad. To use a recent example:
1. Survival of Congresswoman Gifford = Miracle and the work of god.
2. The killing of an 8 year old little girl = Man's free will to do what he wants!

All somehow fitting in to this same god's ultimate plan for us all! You don't see any irony in that?
Jan 19, 2011 12:32pm
BORIStheCrusher's avatar

BORIStheCrusher

drunk

1,893 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:36 PM
Bigred1995;643927 wrote:I think he's referring to things we perceive to be good or bad. To use a recent example:
1. Survival of Congresswoman Gifford = Miracle and the work of god.
2. The killing of an 8 year old little girl = Man's free will to do what he wants!

All somehow fitting in to this same god's ultimate plan for us all! You don't see any irony in that?

Exactly. You can't have it both ways.
Jan 19, 2011 12:36pm
Y-Town Steelhound's avatar

Y-Town Steelhound

Underrated

1,388 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:44 PM
Well, here's my thing...

I believe that there's a "God", but he's not an omnipotent white bearded man in the sky that created us and intervenes in all of our daily lives. I believe that God is simply anything we perceive to be beautiful in the world. God is within us, not in the sky or in a building. I think it's a good thing for people to use the teachings of the Bible as a basic moral code to live by. I don't think it's good for them to use it as a literal historical source. I also think it's good for some people to believe in the traditional sense of God in order to help cope with the thought of death, or some type of purpose in the world. I only get one shot at life, so I'm going to enjoy it as best as I can. At the same time I try to live a good life, take care of those around me, and not cause intentional harm to others. I do this for myself and those I care about, not a possibly existent being whom I've never met. If I continue to do this the rest of my life, I'll be at peace when I die and satisfied with my life. If God sends me to hell....well then maybe his heaven isn't one I want to live in anyways.

I hate organized religions. I think they do nothing but cause senseless violence in the world and exploit people's fear of death/the unknown for monetary gain. Religion is like a dick....it's ok to have one, but don't whip it out all the time and don't try to shove it down my throat.
Jan 19, 2011 12:44pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:50 PM
Bigred1995;643927 wrote:I think he's referring to things we perceive to be good or bad. To use a recent example:
1. Survival of Congresswoman Gifford = Miracle and the work of god.
2. The killing of an 8 year old little girl = Man's free will to do what he wants!

All somehow fitting in to this same god's ultimate plan for us all! You don't see any irony in that?
The first irony I saw was the notion that anyone who would demand evidence (which, by nature, excludes one's own non-evidence based perceptions) for a God, but not demand that same kind of evidence for inherent good and evil.

Moreover, why is it that I should trust my own perception of what is good and what is bad? A toddler may trust his own perception that shots are bad, because what he knows is that they hurt. However, his perception is problematic in his attempt to establishing the "goodness" or "badness" of a shot, because that perception doesn't ... possibly even can't ... grasp all the reasons that go into getting a shot.

Some of these things in life to which we attribute the "bad" nomenclature may be to use what a shot is to a toddler. I'm not suggesting with any resolution that any or all of them are, but I'm suggesting that there is an equal lack of support for determining, with ANY assurance, any inherent goodness or badness in the universe, provided the assumption that an overseeing being was never there to define it.

The way I see it, if you refuse to accept any supreme being on the grounds of a lack of evidence, you must also refuse to accept that any object, state, action ... anything ... has any inherent value ... at least, if you are attempting to be intellectually honest.
BORIStheCrusher;643932 wrote:Exactly. You can't have it both ways.

That's exactly the problem. Anyone who refuses to accept the existence of a supreme being of the universe based on a lack of evidence must also refuse to accept the existence of inherent value in the universe. As such, one cannot believe in something being inherently good or bad if one does not accept something based on a lack of evidence.
Jan 19, 2011 12:50pm
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BORIStheCrusher

drunk

1,893 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:50 PM
^^^^^^^^

Now you are just rambling.
Jan 19, 2011 12:50pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:51 PM
PS - For what it's worth, I don't think every good thing is a miraculous act of God. I think it could be said that most of all outcomes, good and bad, are the result of the world being in its current state.
Jan 19, 2011 12:51pm
V

vball10set

paying it forward

24,795 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:56 PM
Until there's solid proof...I'll continue to highly believe He is

And I mean proof proof, not some bullshit story an agnostic fanatic fabricates
Jan 19, 2011 12:56pm
Hb31187's avatar

Hb31187

Senior Member

8,534 posts
Jan 19, 2011 1:10 PM
Skyhook79;643925 wrote:I'm curious as to what you think would be considered "solid proof" or "proof,proof" for you to believe?

Physical proof that he exists, like right in front of me. And not "oh its in the beauty of a sunset, child birth, how complex our bodies are ect" that shits all cliche. Basically id need to god himself, not saying he doesnt exist...but im highly skeptical
Jan 19, 2011 1:10pm