See, I think this is a rather convoluted and immature point of view. Nobody on this site shoves their religion down anybody's throats. What happens is somebody will ask a question and others try to answer it.Thread Bomber;646745 wrote:
CenterBHSFan;646755 wrote:See, I think this is a rather convoluted and immature point of view. Nobody on this site shoves their religion down anybody's throats. What happens is somebody will ask a question and others try to answer it.
How many people since the inception of this site has started a thread to do what that picture suggests?
What is constantly evident though to me is that there are two different kinds of non-believers:
- Those who can question those who believe with dignity, curiosity, intellect and honest debate
- Those who cannot
It is my contention that those who cannot do a great disservice to those who can, for the obvious reasons.
I cannot recall anyone starting a thread, However there more than a handful that would suggest that people that don't believe as they do, or conversely, do not believe in the same Christ as they do are idiot and morons and get quite offended at someone else with a different viewpoint.CenterBHSFan;646755 wrote:See, I think this is a rather convoluted and immature point of view. Nobody on this site shoves their religion down anybody's throats. What happens is somebody will ask a question and others try to answer it.
How many people since the inception of this site has started a thread to do what that picture suggests?
Thread Bomber;646793 wrote:And I think you are jealous that you don't have one
(although with what you have, you can get all of the penises that you'd like)
Actually if you read what I said that is exactly what I said, that it is the believed best solution to the given data, but it does NOT make it fact as you, and many others, are perpetrating.Bigred1995;646741 wrote:What you fail to conceed is that these, "analysis of data/evidence and best possible assertions made" for these theories aren't just really good guesses, but are based on the math. just as countless other theories have been proven in the past! No, Einstein can't travel at the speed of light to test his theory, but the math tells him what he needs to know. In the future, could it be proven that his math is wrong? Possibly (actually, I seem to remember reading somewhere that the speed of light actually isn't constant so that his equation isn't 100% accurate, but I may be thinking of something else), but when that time gets here the math is what we have to go with!
password;647122 wrote:When I talked to some friends about this subject I get the impression that some people only believe in god because they were taught some of the following beleifs as kids.
1.The more you believe in god and the more you go to church will increase your chances of going to heaven.
2.The people that do not believe in god will go to hell.
3.When you break one of the ten commandments,God will forgive you if you go to confession and recite the hail marys the priest assigns to you.
4.Donating your time and money will help you get into heaven.Such as a alter boy as a kid.
I don't think all these things should be used to decide if I get into heaven.The people that don't believe in god surely don't believe in heaven or hell so this would not matter to them.
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jmog;647151 wrote:Whoever is teaching people that these are the things you need to do to go to heaven obviously has not read the Bible
O-Trap;647172 wrote:1. I never see "church attendance" or any variation stipulated as a requirement in the Bible.
2. I see #2 fairly clearly in the Bible, but it goes much further than this. In fact, this one can be met and not matter in Biblical terms of heaven.
3. 1 John 1:9 seems to fly in the face of needing to ever recite the Hail Mary (though I've recited it on the grounds and with the intent of historical tradition).
4. This is never given as a requirement for heaven, but charity and generosity IS commanded to God's people as early as the Old Testament. However, it seems to focus more on taking care of the poor, the wdow, and the orphan.
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O-Trap;647172 wrote:1. I never see "church attendance" or any variation stipulated as a requirement in the Bible.
2. I see #2 fairly clearly in the Bible, but it goes much further than this. In fact, this one can be met and not matter in Biblical terms of heaven.
3. 1 John 1:9 seems to fly in the face of needing to ever recite the Hail Mary (though I've recited it on the grounds and with the intent of historical tradition).
4. This is never given as a requirement for heaven, but charity and generosity IS commanded to God's people as early as the Old Testament. However, it seems to focus more on taking care of the poor, the wdow, and the orphan.
DeyDurkie5;647708 wrote:why do you need a book to tell you how to live? Why can't you live your life based on doing what YOU think is right? I mean sex before marriage bad? That's what I don't get about this, like why can't you just live based on what you think is reasonable in life. otrap you are obviously a well educated person and know your shit, how on earth could sex before marriage be a "sin"? Why does that have to be a "rule" to everything? To me it seems stupid to have to follow a books rules and not just live your life.
Skyhook79;647828 wrote:Considering very few people follow the instructions of the Bible (Christians included) today in the World, is it really hard to see why the World has some very evil, dangerous places and people?
What you just described is pretty much how many people live their lives right now. What is right in one person's mind may not be right to another etc,etc,etc.
You ask "sex before marriage bad"? You wouldn't think there would be a problem with that if each and every person ONLY had sexual relations with that one person. There are many unintended consequences from having several sexual partners. If every person in the World only had sexual relations with the person they married imagine how many fewer sexual related diseases we would be dealing with if any.
For what it's worth, I was responding to a worldview that isn't completely mine. However, to answer your question, I don't need every decision to be chosen for me. I DO, however, want to live my life as a human being in my position ought to. Who better to consult on how I ought to interact with my world than the one whose brainchild it was?DeyDurkie5;647708 wrote:why do you need a book to tell you how to live?
A world doing this is a world of anarchy. You might be comfortable with me living that way, but what if I think mass genocide is right? What if I can justify to myself being a hit for hire, or an embezzler, or any of a list of other things? If I'm basically able to make my own rules, then I'll likely make rules that will simply play to my own whims and desires ... and I'll name those things "right" or "good."DeyDurkie5;647708 wrote:Why can't you live your life based on doing what YOU think is right?
This has cultural nuances based on engaging marriage the way we do. In essence, it really is meant to say that my own sexuality is simply a gift that was designed to be given to the person I commit to spending my life with. Moreover, to me, it just makes sense, and I thought so even while I was a pretty outspoken atheist. If two people only have sex with one another, what comparison is there? What insecurity is there? If two people only have sex with each other, there is no need to feel insecure, because you can know you're the best the other person has ever had, even if, in reality, you're awful at it. It leaves less room for discontentment and timidity.DeyDurkie5;647708 wrote:I mean sex before marriage bad?
Because there is virtually no one general action or activity that everyone agrees is wrong. If one group thinks it's A-okay to steal, rape, and enslave another group, they would have no reason not to.DeyDurkie5;647708 wrote:That's what I don't get about this, like why can't you just live based on what you think is reasonable in life.
Quite honestly, I think it makes the most sense. And again, if I'm trying to live as a person in my shoes ought to live, and that "oughtness" includes a principle that makes sense, like this one, it's not a difficult one.DeyDurkie5;647708 wrote:otrap you are obviously a well educated person and know your shit, how on earth could sex before marriage be a "sin"? Why does that have to be a "rule" to everything?
The nice thing, DD, is that at the end of the day, there is freedom in living. I'm not controlled or dictated by my own wants or inhibitions. I'm not enslaved to addictions. My relationship with my wife has not been shackled by any kind of doubt or infidelity. I feel more free than I ever did as a non-theist, and I essentially lived my life the way I thought I should/wanted to at the time.DeyDurkie5;647708 wrote:To me it seems stupid to have to follow a books rules and not just live your life.
DeyDurkie5;648455 wrote:People today don't follow the bible because people today who are in the process of learning said religion/bible don't really care either way. THey are there because their rents are forcing them. Also, Just because people don't read the bible doesn't mean the world is evil, that logic is retarded in every way possible. I'm not saying reading the bible is wrong by any means, but what I'm saying is if people were raised the right way, and had the right values, then regardless of a book, they will be doing the right thing concerning life's decisions.
O-Trap;648458 wrote:For what it's worth, I was responding to a worldview that isn't completely mine. However, to answer your question, I don't need every decision to be chosen for me. I DO, however, want to live my life as a human being in my position ought to. Who better to consult on how I ought to interact with my world than the one whose brainchild it was?
It's more the idea that I want to live in the way my own Creator designed me (not specifically, but as a human) to live. He happened to communicate much of it by way of a compilation of inspired authors. The rest? I just do the best I can and hope that it is how I ought to live.
I know you don't need every decision to be chosen for you, and I understand the point of you living your own way. But at the same time, why do you need someone telling you that sex before marriage is bad, why can't you find that our for yourself? And I get that you want to do what you think your creator thinks is right, but what if HE was wrong? I mean I think the bible and any religion that thinks gayness is wrong is completely wrong. In that sense, does that your creator wrong?
A world doing this is a world of anarchy. You might be comfortable with me living that way, but what if I think mass genocide is right? What if I can justify to myself being a hit for hire, or an embezzler, or any of a list of other things? If I'm basically able to make my own rules, then I'll likely make rules that will simply play to my own whims and desires ... and I'll name those things "right" or "good."
Can you imagine the Hatfield/McCoy complex so many people would have? It's "right" in a lot of people's minds to get someone back for something they did to you. I can see why "turning the other cheek" is a better, more peaceful way to live, can't you?
I get the whole the world is crazy argument, and I agree but I mean don't you think that having the law there as a guideline is enough? I don't see how it isn't enough to live a good life(especially if you believe in helping your elders, helping other people in need, or just being a good natured person in general).
This has cultural nuances based on engaging marriage the way we do. In essence, it really is meant to say that my own sexuality is simply a gift that was designed to be given to the person I commit to spending my life with. Moreover, to me, it just makes sense, and I thought so even while I was a pretty outspoken atheist. If two people only have sex with one another, what comparison is there? What insecurity is there? If two people only have sex with each other, there is no need to feel insecure, because you can know you're the best the other person has ever had, even if, in reality, you're awful at it. It leaves less room for discontentment and timidity.
Because there is virtually no one general action or activity that everyone agrees is wrong. If one group thinks it's A-okay to steal, rape, and enslave another group, they would have no reason not to.
This even translates into law. If I think something is okay, but the law of the land says it's wrong, is that going to be reason for me to stop doing it?
Probably not. I'll probably just try not to get caught.
Again, understand where you are coming from, but at the same time hasn't the idea of marriage kind of fallen off? In essence, you know what your own sexuality is, and you know that no matter what, you will be liking guys, girls or both. Why does having a ceremony with someone(grant it you have a 50% chance of staying with this person based on US statistics on marriage) consider you not gay/straight/bi?
Quite honestly, I think it makes the most sense. And again, if I'm trying to live as a person in my shoes ought to live, and that "oughtness" includes a principle that makes sense, like this one, it's not a difficult one.
But isn't there a general consensus that something is wrong? Hence the reason why our laws and overall constitutional system is based on some sort of wrong and right system?
I can tell you this in good conscience. My wife had sex before we were married, and I have to admit, it did cause problems. I never resented her for it, but it did used to make me apprehensive, because I had no idea what sex was supposed to be like, nor did I have any comparison.
your wife had sex before marriage, because she was curious to how it felt and what it was like. If she was as dedicated as you were to her religion or what not, she wouldn't have. I mean shouldn't that make your wife wrong since she did it before marriage?
The nice thing, DD, is that at the end of the day, there is freedom in living. I'm not controlled or dictated by my own wants or inhibitions. I'm not enslaved to addictions. My relationship with my wife has not been shackled by any kind of doubt or infidelity. I feel more free than I ever did as a non-theist, and I essentially lived my life the way I thought I should/wanted to at the time.
Too, that's the beauty of the message of God. The point of our lives is not to come out unscathed. God knows that I, and others who want to live the way he made us to, are still royal fuckups all the time.
The message, in a nutshell, is this: Try to live the life you were made to live, and as long as you'll accept it, I'll cover you when you screw that up.
I can't begin to describe the feeling of knowing that he'll always have me covered when I screw up. I treat that with a level of humility, because I know that I certainly can't cover it myself, so I try not to exploit it. But it's good to know that he's there when I need him.
I didn't realize any of that until after it made sense to me, but what a pleasant surprise it was!
O-Trap;648464 wrote:Who gets to decide what that right way is? What those right values are?
DeyDurkie5;648495 wrote:Your values are based on what's legal and illegal, and what you think as a person is right or wrong outside of that legality. So say an older chick fell down and needs picked up, hopefully as a person you will see that she needs help and will help her up
Skyhook79;648520 wrote:I don't think places like Iraq,Iran,North Korea,Afghanistan and many other Countries and even places in the United states hold the same values or legalities as to what your looking for.
You can't legislate values and you can't count on humans doing the right thing.
Skyhook79;648520 wrote:I don't think places like Iraq,Iran,North Korea,Afghanistan and many other Countries and even places in the United states hold the same values or legalities as to what your looking for.
You can't legislate values and you can't count on humans doing the right thing.
DeyDurkie5;648521 wrote:We don't live in Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Afghanistan, etc
What if something I think is a moral obligation becomes illegal? My country is then denying me my right to moral obligation. Which side gets the nod and why?DeyDurkie5;648495 wrote:Your values are based on what's legal and illegal, and what you think as a person is right or wrong outside of that legality. So say an older chick fell down and needs picked up, hopefully as a person you will see that she needs help and will help her up
DeyDurkie5;648521 wrote:We don't live in Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Afghanistan, etc
