Just to further the the legend of "BOSS" Joe Haden, the man picked up the tab for 55 customers at Sushi Rock in Beachwood yesterday afternoon. Dude is nothing but class....

lhslep134;809584 wrote:Because having NFL talent is the same thing as still having much more talent than your opponent.....

It doesn't matter if they are NFL talent or not, they're still better than everyone on their schedule talent wise.

To think otherwise is borderline insane.

This isn't really the place to argue about OSU and it's opponents, but they aren't playing Youngstown State every game. Their opponents have good talent, yes not as good OVERALL as Ohio State, but their opponents still have major talent. Wisconson (x2), Iowa, Illinois, and Purdue all had a player drafted before OSU's first draft pick. Overall, Ohio State is superior, which is why they beat up on Big Ten opponents.

And why isn't NFL talent a good indicator of talent?

For those who think that Prior is a good idea for a NFL WCO, rank the follow QBs in order of NFL talent:

Derrek Anderson
Ryan Leaf
Matt Leinart
Rick Mirer
Terrelle Pryor
JaMarcus Russell
Akili Smith
Andre Ware
Vince Young

SportsAndLady;809659 wrote:
And why isn't NFL talent a good indicator of talent?

Sigh....

A lot of players are awesome in college but don't do anything in the pros, or aren't drafted high because of measureables. That doesn't take away from their superior skills playing at the college level. Other players were terrible in college but turned it up in the pros (Devin Hester).


NFL talent is sometimes a good evaluator of how good a team is (see 2001 Miami Hurricanes), but when talking about college football and how much more talented a team is than another you need to look at the apples to apples comparison which is production in college, not apples to oranges (production in college vs production in NFL).

lhslep134;809684 wrote:Sigh....

A lot of players are awesome in college but don't do anything in the pros

AJ Hawk, Barbie Carpenter & Schlegel were all dominant beasts in college and only Hawk has had a decent NFL career. I thought Hawk was going to be a superstar at the next level but he hasn't been much more than a solid, servicable LB at the NFL level, IMO. Carpenter was the biggest bust/disappointment of the three though.

lhslep134;809684 wrote:Sigh....

A lot of players are awesome in college but don't do anything in the pros, or aren't drafted high because of measureables. That doesn't take away from their superior skills playing at the college level. Other players were terrible in college but turned it up in the pros (Devin Hester).


NFL talent is sometimes a good evaluator of how good a team is (see 2001 Miami Hurricanes), but when talking about college football and how much more talented a team is than another you need to look at the apples to apples comparison which is production in college, not apples to oranges (production in college vs production in NFL).

No I definitely know that, and I wasn't implying anything different. But my point, is that Ohio State doesn't really have a lot of offensive talent, they are just overall as a group more talented than some of their opponents. They have better coaching, better resources to become better (training facilities, weight rooms, etc.), etc.

I mean look at OSU's offensive stats, especially their receivers and running backs. No one really sticks out, in terms of statistics. Obviously someone has to catch the passes so they're going to get some yards. Pryor is VERY good in college, so he makes a lot of his receivers look a lot better than they are. The fact that none of them, besides maybe Posey, got much look at the next level further proves that these guys caught a bunch of passes because of Pryor's ability rather than their own.

You can say NFL talent is not a good indicator of talent, and for the most part, I'd agree..but it's still something you can go off of when evaluating talent. I know there are a plethora of cases where 'good in college, bad in nfl' but then there are even more of 'good in college, good in nfl'

BR1986FB;809694 wrote:AJ Hawk, Barbie Carpenter & Schlegel were all dominant beasts in college and only Hawk has had a decent NFL career. I thought Hawk was going to be a superstar at the next level but he hasn't been much more than a solid, servicable LB at the NFL level, IMO. Carpenter was the biggest bust/disappointment of the three though.

Carpenter, unfortunately, was played out of position in Dallas and hasn't recovered. Hawk has been a little more than a "solid, serviceable LB" being a captain of a SB winning defense. Is he a multi-time pro bowler that many thought he could be? No, but he would start for most NFL teams. If he and Matthews were picked at each other's spots in the 1st round, everyone would say he was a steal.

I agree with S&L's comment about OSU's offense. Collectively, they work well together and are better than the opposing defenses they are playing. Using the example of the Miami Hurricanes, they typically send a lot of players to the NFL but that doesn't mean they are a national championship contender. They have a bunch of talent that doesn't seem to play as well together as teams like OSU.

Y-Town Steelhound;809749 wrote:Carpenter, unfortunately, was played out of position in Dallas and hasn't recovered. Hawk has been a little more than a "solid, serviceable LB" being a captain of a SB winning defense. Is he a multi-time pro bowler that many thought he could be? No, but he would start for most NFL teams. If he and Matthews were picked at each other's spots in the 1st round, everyone would say he was a steal.

Carpenter was projected as a hybrid 3-4 OLB by everyone going into that draft. He's soft.

Hawk was selected at #5 in his draft. Yeah, he's the captain of the Super Bowl champs. Big deal. I don't see any Pro Bowl appearances on his resume. Being selected THAT high, it's expected that he'd be a "can't miss." I'm not saying that he sucks but he's really nothing more than a reliable, serviceable linebacker. He's not a "standout" player.

BR1986FB;809763 wrote:Carpenter was projected as a hybrid 3-4 OLB by everyone going into that draft. He's soft.

Hawk was selected at #5 in his draft. Yeah, he's the captain of the Super Bowl champs. Big deal. I don't see any Pro Bowl appearances on his resume. Being selected THAT high, it's expected that he'd be a "can't miss." I'm not saying that he sucks but he's really nothing more than a reliable, serviceable linebacker. He's not a "standout" player.

Again, had he and Matthews switched drafting spots he would've been seen as a steal in the later part of the 1st round. He's so "serviceable" that the Packers resigned him to a 5-year deal. You can shrug your shoulders at being captain of a SB defense as opposed to a pro bowler...but I guarantee he as well as most people would take the ring over the trip to Hawaii. He's not quite a pro bowler, but he's more than just serviceable.

Y-Town Steelhound;809839 wrote: He's not quite a pro bowler, but he's more than just serviceable.

Which explains moments like this...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/09/13/while-clay-mathews-shines-aj-hawk-is-nowhere-to-be-found/

http://gnb.scout.com/2/912086.html

http://archive.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/09/aj-hawk-unhappy-riding-bench-with-packers.html

good god no...please no!!!!

http://www.toledoblade.com/Ohio-State/2011/06/22/Cleveland-Browns-researching-Terrelle-Pryor.html

CLEVELAND -- The Browns are intrigued enough by former Ohio State quarterback Terrelle Pryor to do their due diligence on him for the supplemental draft, a league source told The Plain Dealer.

Hmmmmmm.....

vball10set;810115 wrote:good god no...please no!!!!

http://www.toledoblade.com/Ohio-State/2011/06/22/Cleveland-Browns-researching-Terrelle-Pryor.html

Yeah. A Yahoo blog said the same thing: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Terrelle-Pryor-has-piqued-the-interest-of-the-Cl?urn=nfl-wp2854&active_dimension=carousel_ept_sports_nfl_experts&ysp_frm_woah=1

I mentioned that to a co-worker who's a Browns fan and he did an impressive full-body slump. Not just slumped shoulders, but his whole body crumbled a good bit.

vball10set;810115 wrote:good god no...please no!!!!

http://www.toledoblade.com/Ohio-State/2011/06/22/Cleveland-Browns-researching-Terrelle-Pryor.html

Could you please find the article in the Columbus and Cincinnati newpapers and post it here again?

Sonofanump;810342 wrote:Could you please the article in the Columbus and Cincinnati newpapers and post it here again?

sorry, I don't understand the request

BR1986FB;809852 wrote:Which explains moments like this...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/09/13/while-clay-mathews-shines-aj-hawk-is-nowhere-to-be-found/

http://gnb.scout.com/2/912086.html

http://archive.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/09/aj-hawk-unhappy-riding-bench-with-packers.html

All from what? September? He improved his play as the season wore on and helped the Packers win the Super Bowl.

Oh and we can play the links game to a draw all day, that really doesn't mean much:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/23718/page/espntexas/xlv-a-j-hawk-is-the-packers-glue

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/packers/2011-01-27-aj-hawk_N.htm

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/121448799.html

vball10set;810410 wrote:sorry, I don't understand the request

Post 2372 and post 2399 have the same article.

Sonofanump;810582 wrote:Post 2372 and post 2399 have the same article.

got ya'--I think you missed a word or two in your post then

Do not want Pryor. Unless its a 7th rounder.

Like the attitude about 5-11 seasons being unacceptable...

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/06/cleveland_browns_quarterback_c_14.html

Terry Pluto's Talkin' ... about Browns' linebacking needs, the need for Cavaliers patience and why the Tribe can't rely on retreads
Published: Saturday, June 25, 2011, 11:58 PM
Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The NFL lockout continues, the NBA's lockout continues, but the sports talk never stops.

About the Browns...

1. At least in public, the Browns insist they aren't worried about linebackers as they switch to the 4-3 defense. They talk about Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita and D'Qwell Jackson as the starters, and how they should be respectable. That's hard to believe, especially as Jackson played six games in 2009 and none last season. He has had two pectoral injuries, and it's not wise to assume he can stay healthy for a full season.

2. Fujita is a very effective outside linebacker, but he missed five games in 2009 and seven in 2010 because of knee injuries. He's athletic enough to play in the 3-4 or 4-3. The Browns must keep him healthy.

3. The one durable linebacker is Gocong, who has missed only one game in the last four seasons. He was on the field for 987 snaps, the only Browns defenders to play more were T.J. Ward (1,079), Abe Elam (1,071) and Matt Roth (1,041). He probably will be the middle linebacker, although the Browns have also talked about playing Jackson in the middle -- they believe Gocong can handle any of the three linebacker spots.

4. Because the Browns were in a 3-4 defense last season, evaluating Gocong means comparing him to all other 3-4 inside linebackers. According to profootballfocus.com, he was the 10th best inside linebacker. Their complicated system rated Lawrence Timmons (Steelers), Patrick Willis (49ers) and Bart Scott (Jets) as the top three.

5. Among all linebackers in any system, Gocong rated No. 11 in "quarterback pressures." Those are not sacks or even quarterback hits, but the quarterback was forced to make a quicker throw or run out of the pocket. Gocong rushed 152 times, and 11 percent of the time, it resulted in a quarterback pressure. Because he had only two sacks, it's easy to dismiss Gocong as a pass rusher -- but these stats say otherwise.

6. The real problem facing new defensive coordinator Dick Jauron is that so many of linebackers are OK for the 3-4 system, but not the 4-3. That defense requires more speed from the outside linebackers. So effective 3-4 linebackers such as Matt Roth, David Bowens and Eric Barton don't fit. All are free agents and not expected to return. Nordonia's Jason Trusnik returns, but he is considered mostly a backup and special teams player.

7. Roth is a very effective player, especially against the run -- ranking No. 5 in all linebackers, according to profootballfocus. He also led the Browns with 40 quarterback pressures. Next were Marcus Benard and Gocong with 16, so that shows how Roth made an impact. He could play defensive end in a 4-3, but Roth wants to stay in a 3-4 defense -- and also wants to play for a winner.

8. Benard is under consideration as a pass-rushing defensive end. The reason the Browns switched from the 3-4 to the 4-3 is partly because GM Tom Heckert and his staff believe it's easier to find players -- especially linemen -- for the 4-3. Adding draft picks Phil Taylor and Jabaal Sheard to join Ahtyba Rubin helps the line. Benard also should fit as a pass rusher. But they didn't draft a linebacker. No doubt, Heckert will add a linebacker once free agency and trading resumes. Heckert did turn Alex Hall into Sheldon Brown and Gocong in a deal with the Eagles last year. But he has a lot of work to do in this area.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2011/06/terry_plutos_talkin_about_brow_13.html

Good lord...hope he has an easier time finding the end zone than he does his parking tickets...93, really?

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/ba1mV

93 is an insane amount.

BR1986FB;815122 wrote:Good lord...hope he has an easier time finding the end zone than he does his parking tickets...93, really?

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/ba1mV

If you were told not to worry about parking tickets in your new car you probably didn't pay for...wouldn't you park wherever you wanted and whenever