krazie45 wrote: Ohio State is the best PUBLIC university in Ohio...but I would agree that Case Western and Kenyon are better schools.

And Miami (OH) is a very good school but not as good as OSU. I went to OSU-Mansfield for 2 quarters freshman year then transferred to main campus because I did not get accepted into Ohio State. I got accepted into Miami.

Ahh but I know people that got into Ohio State that didn't get into Oberlin (with a 3.99 GPA from Baldwin-Wallace). Does this mean Oberlin is better than Ohio State?

Fair enough, Sleeper, my fault for turning this into a huge argument of sorts.

Oberlin is also a very good school...forgot about them. I still stand by my statement that OSU is the best public university in Ohio.

sleeper wrote:

cbus4life wrote: Sleeper, hence why i said that, at the GRADUATE level, Ohio State is king, by far.

But, at the undergraduate level, it isn't all about having money, resources, technology, etc.

It is about teaching.

And, at those universities i mentioned, the undergraduate education is great.

I don't want to get into an argument, because OSU is a great school, but as far as undergraduate education is concerned, i don't think it is all that much "better" than the schools i mentioned.

Like i said, graduate level, most certainly!

About the teaching? Did you not read my post?

Let me explain.

There are only so many "top tier" professors floating around in the entire world and colleges have to compete with each other in order to obtain this talent. For most the competitive edge is how much money you can offer them, as well as benefits, in order to lure them to your school. Ivy league schools such as Harvard, Yale, Princeton, not only have the money but the prestige factor as well which is why the perennial get the best teachers(who in turn probably will become future top tier professors). I don't see how a school like Kenyon, Oberlin, etc can even come close to the amount of quality professors as Ohio State does. Do they have smaller classes? Sure. That really doesn't mean SHIT, it just means that the school doesn't have a lot of students either. In fact, if they eliminate the stupid "class size" from college ranking equations, Ohio State would instantly become a top 20 school in the country as most of the other factors are ranked in the top 20, except for class size which is among the nation's worst.

I didn't trash these schools, but come on, its fairly obvious that Ohio State gets the best in at least the state, and therefore gets honored as being one of the best in the nation.

I'm kind of intrigued by this debate. Sleeper, do you feel smaller class sizes are an advantage or a disadvantage or not that big a deal? I'm not trying to hint at anything, I'm just curious your thoughts.

^^^I have my views on the subject having attended myself but I'll allow sleeper to answer. That is if you're really interested.

Mr Pat wrote:

sleeper wrote:

cbus4life wrote: Sleeper, hence why i said that, at the GRADUATE level, Ohio State is king, by far.

But, at the undergraduate level, it isn't all about having money, resources, technology, etc.

It is about teaching.

And, at those universities i mentioned, the undergraduate education is great.

I don't want to get into an argument, because OSU is a great school, but as far as undergraduate education is concerned, i don't think it is all that much "better" than the schools i mentioned.

Like i said, graduate level, most certainly!

About the teaching? Did you not read my post?

Let me explain.

There are only so many "top tier" professors floating around in the entire world and colleges have to compete with each other in order to obtain this talent. For most the competitive edge is how much money you can offer them, as well as benefits, in order to lure them to your school. Ivy league schools such as Harvard, Yale, Princeton, not only have the money but the prestige factor as well which is why the perennial get the best teachers(who in turn probably will become future top tier professors). I don't see how a school like Kenyon, Oberlin, etc can even come close to the amount of quality professors as Ohio State does. Do they have smaller classes? Sure. That really doesn't mean SHIT, it just means that the school doesn't have a lot of students either. In fact, if they eliminate the stupid "class size" from college ranking equations, Ohio State would instantly become a top 20 school in the country as most of the other factors are ranked in the top 20, except for class size which is among the nation's worst.

I didn't trash these schools, but come on, its fairly obvious that Ohio State gets the best in at least the state, and therefore gets honored as being one of the best in the nation.

I'm kind of intrigued by this debate. Sleeper, do you feel smaller class sizes are an advantage or a disadvantage or not that big a deal? I'm not trying to hint at anything, I'm just curious your thoughts.

I don't think it matters one way or the other. Some people don't want to attend Ohio State because its too big and would prefer smaller class sizes, and vice versa. Personally, I don't give a hoot if the professor knows my name or not, as long as he isn't an incompetent CLOWN.

Fair enough. I went to UT and I had a mixture of large, small, and medium sized classes. At least for me it seemed like the prof had more time to help if it was a smaller class. I do agree that a lot of how you're going to do in that class is how good the professor is.

Not every class at Ohio State is huge. I believe it's something like 77% of first year classes are under 40 people.

A student's quality of education is largely going to depend on (1) how good the teacher is; (2) how small the class is; and (3) how smart the fellow students are.

Re (1), most top-tier professors are researchers or academics; that doesn't mean they're good teachers. The most sought-after professors are those who are constantly publishing, not those who are making students happy. If anything, the knock on top universities is that the professors are scholars first and teachers second. I don't think this argument cuts in favor of tOSU.

Re (2), the smaller the class, the more the interaction, and generally the better learning experience. tOSU doesn't have the smallest classes in Ohio. That's probably going to be one of the LACs. "77% under 40" doesn't strike me as being small class sizes. As an undergrad, my largest class was 75, and my median class was probably 5 or 6. About 20% of my classes were simply me and a professor. That's very different than a place where 40 is considered a small class.

Re (3), tOSU has dramatically raised its admission standards over the past decade. I don't recall off-hand how it compares to other schools, but I'd guess Case, Kenyon, and Oberlin all compare favorably.

Is tOSU a good school? Sure. Dollar-for-dollar, is it the best in the state? Probably. Are the grad programs good? They're very solid, if not spectacular. Is it the best place in Ohio for an undergrad academic experience? Probably not--that would probably be one of the LACs, for better or worse.

fan_from_texas wrote: A student's quality of education is largely going to depend on (1) how good the teacher is; (2) how small the class is; and (3) how smart the fellow students are.

Re (1), most top-tier professors are researchers or academics; that doesn't mean they're good teachers. The most sought-after professors are those who are constantly publishing, not those who are making students happy. If anything, the knock on top universities is that the professors are scholars first and teachers second. I don't think this argument cuts in favor of tOSU.

Re (2), the smaller the class, the more the interaction, and generally the better learning experience. tOSU doesn't have the smallest classes in Ohio. That's probably going to be one of the LACs. "77% under 40" doesn't strike me as being small class sizes. As an undergrad, my largest class was 75, and my median class was probably 5 or 6. About 20% of my classes were simply me and a professor. That's very different than a place where 40 is considered a small class.

Re (3), tOSU has dramatically raised its admission standards over the past decade. I don't recall off-hand how it compares to other schools, but I'd guess Case, Kenyon, and Oberlin all compare favorably.

Is tOSU a good school? Sure. Dollar-for-dollar, is it the best in the state? Probably. Are the grad programs good? They're very solid, if not spectacular. Is it the best place in Ohio for an undergrad academic experience? Probably not--that would probably be one of the LACs, for better or worse.

This.

krazie45 wrote: Not every class at Ohio State is huge. I believe it's something like 77% of first year classes are under 40 people.

my first year at ohio state was a few years ago, but this was not true, at least not for me and my friends...

Is tOSU a good school? Sure. Dollar-for-dollar, is it the best in the state? Probably. Are the grad programs good? They're very solid, if not spectacular. Is it the best place in Ohio for an undergrad academic experience? Probably not--that would probably be one of the LACs, for better or worse.

Why so much credit to those colleges though? I don't get it, people just say they are great but provide nothing to back it up. The only school that outranks OSU in Ohio is Case and like I've said its because class size is uselessly factored in there.

Now that we have heard all the bullshit from everyone, let me ask the key question: Is Notre Dame going to a bowl or not? I thought the players voted on it.

Fairwood, no clue. We'll find out when we find out.

man, sleeper really loves Ohio State

sleeper wrote:

cbus4life wrote:

sjmvsfscs08 wrote:

Red_Skin_Pride wrote:

cbus4life wrote:
P.S. Whoever said OSU is the best university in the State, as far as academics is concerned...you're wrong.

A great place to do graduate-level work, and certainly the best in the state, IMO, but as far as undergrad goes, there are certainly better institutions. But i guess it is all a matter of opinion, and it is still a great school, just don't think it is the outright "best."

Case-Western and Denison both popped into my mind immediately. A small liberal arts college is always a better academic education IMO than a big one, due to the personal contact with instructors, and lack of TA's teaching class. Places like Denison and Case-Western have great acadmeic programs because a lot of the professors teach classes of 20-30 kids and they're professors, not TA's.

I would agree. My best friend played basketball at Case and my sister is an alumna of Denison. Both are fantastic institutions. However I was referring to the public universities. I have a full ride via the State of Ohio, so my realistic options were the public universities. My fault for not elaborating.

Fair enough.

Oberlin, Kenyon, Case, Denison, as well as Miami University, all have wonderful academics and reputations.

I'll take Ohio State over any of these Jokers. In the college world, it all comes down to money and Ohio State dwarfs all of these schools easily. Why money? With money you can have the best facilities, technology, and most importantly lure the best professors to teach the students. Also, it attracts the best students because anyone with intelligence will forgo paying more money for a small college when you can get a superior education at Ohio State.

And Oberlin, Kenyon, and Denison? Really? I'll give you Miami and Case but those 3? LOL

You're a fool. Denison is one of the top liberal arts colleges in the midwest, let alone in the state of Ohio. And as far as the money goes, Denison has a quarter of the endowment of Ohio State, for a university that is roughly 1/30th the size of OSU's network. That's incredible. Of course OSU makes more money than Denison: they HAVE to, to support all the campuses and students. But in ratio of endowment to size of the school, Denison DWARFS Ohio State. If Denison grew to OSU's size and kept it's current ratio of endowment, they would have about 10x's the money OSU does. I take it you've never been to Granville/Denison's campus. Because they have so many successful alumni that donate GOBS of money, they have some of the nicest technology hiding in historic buildings. It's a really unique and great setting. Plus, with all that money, many students get enough financial help that it makes tuition fairly comparable to public universities.

Let me give you an example. Some of Denison's famous alums...Jennifer Garner, Steve Carell, Joe Banner (CEO and president of Philly Eagles), George Bodenheimer (CEO and president of ESPN and ABC sports), William G. Bowen (former President of Princeton University, currently president of the Andrew Mellon Foundation), Michael Eisner (former CEO and chairman of Walt Disney Company), Erastus B. Tyler (Army General for the Union in the Civil War), Terrell Jones (founder of Travelocity.com), Bobby Rahal (won the Indianapolis 500), and of course, WAYNE WOODROW HAYES. All this from a school who never has more than 2,500 undergrads at a time vs OSU who has over 60,000 undergrads in their system (meaning main and branch campuses). The only thing OSU wins at is size, sports, and they are comparable in the medical, political science, and buisiness. Every other major that both schools offer, Denison wins. 99% of students at OSU were in the top 1/2 of their high school class. Over 80% of Denison's students were in the top 10% of their high school class, and over half of Denison's undergrads were in the TOP FIVE PERCENT of their high school class:

"Denison's annual operating budget is about $69 million. It also has other funds including endowments that surpass $600 million. Denison has 190 full-time faculty, making the student-to-faculty ratio 11:1. In 2008, 5,313 students applied to Denison University, lowering the acceptance rate to 38%."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denison_University#Student_body

I think what I was trying to get at is if you go into an interview with a degree from Denison, your potential employer will say something like "So, you went to Denison? I've never heard of that, is it a community college?". Whereas you come in with a degree from The Ohio State University, and your potential employer will say something like this "Ah, you went to Ohio State, let's just skip the interview, your hired, want to grab a beer?"

sleeper wrote: I think what I was trying to get at is if you go into an interview with a degree from Denison, your potential employer will say something like "So, you went to Denison? I've never heard of that, is it a community college?". Whereas you come in with a degree from The Ohio State University, and your potential employer will say something like this "Ah, you went to Ohio State, let's just skip the interview, you're hired, want to grab a beer?"

edited to point out irony

karen lotz wrote:

sleeper wrote: I think what I was trying to get at is if you go into an interview with a degree from Denison, your potential employer will say something like "So, you went to Denison? I've never heard of that, is it a community college?". Whereas you come in with a degree from The Ohio State University, and your potential employer will say something like this "Ah, you went to Ohio State, let's just skip the interview, you're hired, want to grab a beer?"

edited to point out irony

Oh noes, I've been ruined!

:rolleyes:

We all know that Wittenberg is the best University in Ohio.

How's that for "threadshitting", Mooney?

Red_Skin_Pride wrote: You're a fool. Denison is one of the top liberal arts colleges in the midwest, let alone in the state of Ohio. And as far as the money goes, Denison has a quarter of the endowment of Ohio State, for a university that is roughly 1/30th the size of OSU's network. That's incredible. Of course OSU makes more money than Denison: they HAVE to, to support all the campuses and students. But in ratio of endowment to size of the school, Denison DWARFS Ohio State. If Denison grew to OSU's size and kept it's current ratio of endowment, they would have about 10x's the money OSU does. I take it you've never been to Granville/Denison's campus. Because they have so many successful alumni that donate GOBS of money, they have some of the nicest technology hiding in historic buildings. It's a really unique and great setting. Plus, with all that money, many students get enough financial help that it makes tuition fairly comparable to public universities.

Let me give you an example. Some of Denison's famous alums...Jennifer Garner, Steve Carell, Joe Banner (CEO and president of Philly Eagles), George Bodenheimer (CEO and president of ESPN and ABC sports), William G. Bowen (former President of Princeton University, currently president of the Andrew Mellon Foundation), Michael Eisner (former CEO and chairman of Walt Disney Company), Erastus B. Tyler (Army General for the Union in the Civil War), Terrell Jones (founder of Travelocity.com), Bobby Rahal (won the Indianapolis 500), and of course, WAYNE WOODROW HAYES. All this from a school who never has more than 2,500 undergrads at a time vs OSU who has over 60,000 undergrads in their system (meaning main and branch campuses). The only thing OSU wins at is size, sports, and they are comparable in the medical, political science, and buisiness. Every other major that both schools offer, Denison wins. 99% of students at OSU were in the top 1/2 of their high school class. Over 80% of Denison's students were in the top 10% of their high school class, and over half of Denison's undergrads were in the TOP FIVE PERCENT of their high school class:

"Denison's annual operating budget is about $69 million. It also has other funds including endowments that surpass $600 million. Denison has 190 full-time faculty, making the student-to-faculty ratio 11:1. In 2008, 5,313 students applied to Denison University, lowering the acceptance rate to 38%."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denison_University#Student_body

GO BIG RED!!! Beautiful campus and awesome school. Plus Jennifer Gardner is fine too.

This was absolute "ownage" over sleeper, and for that I salute you.

sjmvsfscs08 wrote:

Red_Skin_Pride wrote: You're a fool. Denison is one of the top liberal arts colleges in the midwest, let alone in the state of Ohio. And as far as the money goes, Denison has a quarter of the endowment of Ohio State, for a university that is roughly 1/30th the size of OSU's network. That's incredible. Of course OSU makes more money than Denison: they HAVE to, to support all the campuses and students. But in ratio of endowment to size of the school, Denison DWARFS Ohio State. If Denison grew to OSU's size and kept it's current ratio of endowment, they would have about 10x's the money OSU does. I take it you've never been to Granville/Denison's campus. Because they have so many successful alumni that donate GOBS of money, they have some of the nicest technology hiding in historic buildings. It's a really unique and great setting. Plus, with all that money, many students get enough financial help that it makes tuition fairly comparable to public universities.

Let me give you an example. Some of Denison's famous alums...Jennifer Garner, Steve Carell, Joe Banner (CEO and president of Philly Eagles), George Bodenheimer (CEO and president of ESPN and ABC sports), William G. Bowen (former President of Princeton University, currently president of the Andrew Mellon Foundation), Michael Eisner (former CEO and chairman of Walt Disney Company), Erastus B. Tyler (Army General for the Union in the Civil War), Terrell Jones (founder of Travelocity.com), Bobby Rahal (won the Indianapolis 500), and of course, WAYNE WOODROW HAYES. All this from a school who never has more than 2,500 undergrads at a time vs OSU who has over 60,000 undergrads in their system (meaning main and branch campuses). The only thing OSU wins at is size, sports, and they are comparable in the medical, political science, and buisiness. Every other major that both schools offer, Denison wins. 99% of students at OSU were in the top 1/2 of their high school class. Over 80% of Denison's students were in the top 10% of their high school class, and over half of Denison's undergrads were in the TOP FIVE PERCENT of their high school class:

"Denison's annual operating budget is about $69 million. It also has other funds including endowments that surpass $600 million. Denison has 190 full-time faculty, making the student-to-faculty ratio 11:1. In 2008, 5,313 students applied to Denison University, lowering the acceptance rate to 38%."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denison_University#Student_body

GO BIG RED!!! Beautiful campus and awesome school. Plus Jennifer Gardner is fine too.

This was absolute "ownage" over sleeper, and for that I salute you.

Ownage?

It's pretty sad when you can list your entire notable alumni in a paragraph on a wikipedia page when your school has been around 40 years longer. Ohio State has more "notable" alumni than Dennison has alumni and you can take that to the bank.

^^^^
wonder why that is??

Denison undergrad enrollment: 2,100
OSU undergrad enrollment: 39,000

sleeper wrote: I think what I was trying to get at is if you go into an interview with a degree from Denison, your potential employer will say something like "So, you went to Denison? I've never heard of that, is it a community college?". Whereas you come in with a degree from The Ohio State University, and your potential employer will say something like this "Ah, you went to Ohio State, let's just skip the interview, your hired, want to grab a beer?"

True story. We had a substitute professor for Latin and he went to Cambridge for his Masters. Upon telling us this I promptly rose my hand and sarcasticly "what is Cambridge, a community college?" It got a good laugh out of everyone.

My point is, if the employer hasn't heard of Denison, it's probably not that nice of a job. While THE (aren't I cool?) Ohio State University offers tremendous benefits with their massive alumni base (which is one of the reasons I chose Ohio State), to say people would not have heard of the other terrific schools in the state is laughable

In addition, the chances are high that if the Denison alumna/alumnus wanted to pursue graduate work in Ohio, Ohio State was probably their destination. So the employer would have the best of both worlds. Ohio State is one of the better institutions in the country for that matter.