krambman;518110 wrote:I get that, but what or who do you mean when you say "the BCS wouldn't want Boise in the championship game?"

There has to be somebody behind the BCS. It didn't create itself.

Edit: didn't see your last post.

I understand who is behind the BCS and why it was setup. But Gene Smith and the Big 10 commissioner obviously have much more insight and power than the AD of the Mountain West and the AD at Idaho. The Mountain West is happy to get their money that is generated by being a part of the BCS and they all know that in order to maximize their profits it is better for all involved to have Ohio State play in the Rose Bowl compared to Cincinnati. It's just based economics.

There is a long ways to go, but I actually think that if a bunch of teams manage to get through undefeated that the Big 10's lack of a title game this season could really bite the Buckeyes in the ass if say Oklahoma goes undefeated as well as an SEC team because both would get a huge shot in the strength of schedule rankings beating an undefeated Nebraska or 1 loss SEC team in the conference Championship game.

Oklahoma is the one that could ultimately end up #1 in the polls if they run the table because their out of conference wins over Florida State and Air Force are looking better, and it is looking like they are on pace for a possible show down with a possibly undefeated Nebraska in the Big 12 title game.

I don't think they will, but if either Auburn or LSU manage to run the table, there will be a tremendous push from the media to demand they be included in any national title game as we all know the reverence paid to the SEC as they have produced the past 4 national champions.

I don't think an undefeated OSU could possibly find themselves out of the championship game, but looking at the big picture there are a few teams that if they managed to also get through undefeated could potentially overtake them in the human polls and will probably have stronger strength of schedule and computer rankings.

Thankfully after this year it is no longer an issue, but the Big 10's lack of a Conference Championship game could play a roll in the way voter's vote if there are a bunch of undefeateds at the end some how. It is not fair because there is nothing they can do about it, but if say the Buckeyes and Spartans both finish undefeated, and a team like Oklahoma has to beat an undefeated Nebraska to win the Big 12 I could easily see the media going wild about teams who have to win conference championship games being more deserving of playing for the title if all other things are equal (meaning more than 2 undefeated teams).

IggyPride00;518292 wrote:There is a long ways to go, but I actually think that if a bunch of teams manage to get through undefeated that the Big 10's lack of a title game this season could really bite the Buckeyes in the ass if say Oklahoma goes undefeated as well as an SEC team because both would get a huge shot in the strength of schedule rankings beating an undefeated Nebraska or 1 loss SEC team in the conference Championship game.

Oklahoma is the one that could ultimately end up #1 in the polls if they run the table because their out of conference wins over Florida State and Air Force are looking better, and it is looking like they are on pace for a possible show down with a possibly undefeated Nebraska in the Big 12 title game.

I don't think they will, but if either Auburn or LSU manage to run the table, there will be a tremendous push from the media to demand they be included in any national title game as we all know the reverence paid to the SEC as they have produced the past 4 national champions.

I don't think an undefeated OSU could possibly find themselves out of the championship game, but looking at the big picture there are a few teams that if they managed to also get through undefeated could potentially overtake them in the human polls and will probably have stronger strength of schedule and computer rankings.

Thankfully after this year it is no longer an issue, but the Big 10's lack of a Conference Championship game could play a roll in the way voter's vote if there are a bunch of undefeateds at the end some how. It is not fair because there is nothing they can do about it, but if say the Buckeyes and Spartans both finish undefeated, and a team like Oklahoma has to beat an undefeated Nebraska to win the Big 12 I could easily see the media going wild about teams who have to win conference championship games being more deserving of playing for the title if all other things are equal (meaning more than 2 undefeated teams).

You're right that Oklahoma and LSU finishing undefeated could be a dooms day scenario for OSU (I picked those two because of the remaining unbeatens they probably had the best out of conference schedule. I doubt that we would see either of these two schools jump OSU in the human polls, although it is possible. The way the BCS is currently set up it's nearly impossible for the #1 team in the human polls to be left out. However, since they now consider your points in the human polls and not just the rankings like they used to it is possible that OSU could get left out. Let's say that the three schools mentioned above finish undefeated. If they are all close in points in the human polls with say OSU #1, OU #2, and LSU #3, and if LSU finished first in the computer rankings, with OU second or third, and OSU down somewhere around 6 or 7, then yes, it's possible that those two schools could end up higher in the BCS. It's more likely however, that OSU and OU could be 1 and 2 in the human polls but we swapped in the BCS. When you also think about the fact that Boise State and TCU will also likely be undefeated at year's end it makes it even more unlikely that two schools could jump OSU and get into the BCS.

Was listening to a Ohio State show on the radio last night with Anthony Rothman and he along with the man he was doing the show with believe Ohio State will need help if they win out to get into the championship game.

IggyPride00;518292 wrote:There is a long ways to go, but I actually think that if a bunch of teams manage to get through undefeated that the Big 10's lack of a title game this season could really bite the Buckeyes in the ass if say Oklahoma goes undefeated as well as an SEC team because both would get a huge shot in the strength of schedule rankings beating an undefeated Nebraska or 1 loss SEC team in the conference Championship game.

Oklahoma is the one that could ultimately end up #1 in the polls if they run the table because their out of conference wins over Florida State and Air Force are looking better, and it is looking like they are on pace for a possible show down with a possibly undefeated Nebraska in the Big 12 title game.

I don't think they will, but if either Auburn or LSU manage to run the table, there will be a tremendous push from the media to demand they be included in any national title game as we all know the reverence paid to the SEC as they have produced the past 4 national champions.

I don't think an undefeated OSU could possibly find themselves out of the championship game, but looking at the big picture there are a few teams that if they managed to also get through undefeated could potentially overtake them in the human polls and will probably have stronger strength of schedule and computer rankings.

Thankfully after this year it is no longer an issue, but the Big 10's lack of a Conference Championship game could play a roll in the way voter's vote if there are a bunch of undefeateds at the end some how. It is not fair because there is nothing they can do about it, but if say the Buckeyes and Spartans both finish undefeated, and a team like Oklahoma has to beat an undefeated Nebraska to win the Big 12 I could easily see the media going wild about teams who have to win conference championship games being more deserving of playing for the title if all other things are equal (meaning more than 2 undefeated teams).

I could see Oklahoma jumping OSU, especially if they play an unbeaten Nebraska team and destroy them.
I've said it before. It is not a lock that if OSU goes unbeaten they are in. They are the favorites, but still a lot of ball left to play and crazier things have happened.

IggyPride00;518292 wrote:There is a long ways to go, but I actually think that if a bunch of teams manage to get through undefeated that the Big 10's lack of a title game this season could really bite the Buckeyes in the ass if say Oklahoma goes undefeated as well as an SEC team because both would get a huge shot in the strength of schedule rankings beating an undefeated Nebraska or 1 loss SEC team in the conference Championship game.

Oklahoma is the one that could ultimately end up #1 in the polls if they run the table because their out of conference wins over Florida State and Air Force are looking better, and it is looking like they are on pace for a possible show down with a possibly undefeated Nebraska in the Big 12 title game.

I don't think they will, but if either Auburn or LSU manage to run the table, there will be a tremendous push from the media to demand they be included in any national title game as we all know the reverence paid to the SEC as they have produced the past 4 national champions.

I don't think an undefeated OSU could possibly find themselves out of the championship game, but looking at the big picture there are a few teams that if they managed to also get through undefeated could potentially overtake them in the human polls and will probably have stronger strength of schedule and computer rankings.

Thankfully after this year it is no longer an issue, but the Big 10's lack of a Conference Championship game could play a roll in the way voter's vote if there are a bunch of undefeateds at the end some how. It is not fair because there is nothing they can do about it, but if say the Buckeyes and Spartans both finish undefeated, and a team like Oklahoma has to beat an undefeated Nebraska to win the Big 12 I could easily see the media going wild about teams who have to win conference championship games being more deserving of playing for the title if all other things are equal (meaning more than 2 undefeated teams).

Those are some really good points. If Oklahoma and Nebraska are both undefeated, I would not be disappointed if the winner of that game jumped OSU in the polls. And with OSU's recent problems in the championship game I wouldn't be disappointed if an undefeated SEC team jumped them either. Disappinted might not be the right word, because I definitely want us in the game. But I wouldn't have much of an argument about it. There is a lot of football left to be played though. I think it will mostly sort itself out by then.

I dont think you guys have to worry about a SEC "unbeaten". But......if by a miracle LSU wins out, they will be in the title game for fact. They are already #1 in 3 out of 5 computer polls.

cats gone wild;518368 wrote:I dont think you guys have to worry about a SEC "unbeaten". But......if by a miracle LSU wins out, they will be in the title game for fact. They are already #1 in 3 out of 5 computer polls.

It wouldn't be the first miracle for LSU this season.

krambman;518122 wrote:Okay, let's dispel a little myth right here then. Yes, there are six conferences plus Notre Dame that have it set up for automatic qualification into the BCS. However, it wasn't just these six conferences and Notre Dame that formed the BCS and forced everyone else to live with it. Every conference in college football, even the non-AQ conferences have agreed to the BCS. Just look at the header on the BCS website (http://www.bcsfootball.org/) and you'll see every conference in college football listed. Not only is every conference part of the BCS, but every conference gets money from the BCS every year. Even the lowly MAC gets over $1 million each year from the BCS just for agreeing to participate in it.

That's a little disingenuous. There's 120 FBS schools to vote on the issue. The BCS bloc makes up 66 votes. If they all vote in favor, they get their way, regardless of how the non-BCS schools feel. The BCS has since included the smaller conferences in an effort to keep congress from interfering with their scheme. Throwing a few million dollars at the bottom-feeders is more symbolic than genuine.

Secondly, the 'requirements' to be an AQ conference were set absurdly high to keep the six BCS schools as AQ and always make sure the five non-AQ leagues would rely on at-large berths only, of which they restrictions were lessened, again, to keep congress off their back.

You're right that those in power when it comes to making decisions about the BCS formula wouldn't want to see it changed to benefit a school like Boise, however, they did change some things a few years ago to make it easier for schools like Boise from non-AQ conferences to qualify for BCS bowls. They added an additional BCS bowl which opened up spots for two more at-large teams, and even changed the rules to make it easier for a school from a non-AQ conference to automatically qualify for a BCS spot (instead of having to be chosen by a bowl as an at large)

Again, to appease congress, for fear that the government would step in and mandate a playoff because of the vast amount of money these non-tax paying entities are producing from it.

In fact, this off season they changed some of the rules around to make it easier still for non-AQ schools to get into the BCS than before. It used to be that the Rose Bowl essentially refused to take a team like Boise and would always opt for the second place Big Ten or Pac-10 team if they lost the conference champion to the title game. This is why Illinois played in the 2008 Rose Bowl. Now, they changed the rule about how teams are selected, so if Ohio State makes the title game this year and Boise meets the criteria to gain an automatic BCS birth, but doesn't make the title game, it's almost guaranteed that they will end up in Pasadena. So actually, "the BCS" has done a lot in recent years to help out non-AQ schools like Boise.

Again, more lip service to congress. Akin to self-reporting violations. Their hope is that their golden goose won't be taken from them as long as they keep giving bigger and bigger slices of the money/access to the ne'er-do-wells.

Truth is, they have no intention of giving the non-BCS conferences true equality in the system. Because in an NCAA sanctioned playoff, the money is divided by who plays and for how long. in the BCS, even with the occasional sacrificial payout to the smaller school, they still reap much more money for them at the exclusion of the smaller schools than if this were decided in a playoff.

The only trouble is that the ACC and Big East go along with it. If not for helping support the four other conferences, they would be making far less money off the postseason than if there was a true NCAA sanctioned playoff. And they know it, so they conspire with them to save themselves the heartache of all that lost potential income.

Sykotyk

As far as the human polls go, Oklahoma poses the biggest problem potentatially down the road if they keep winning as they have the best out of conference wins to this point, and will have beat what figures to be a highly ranked Nebraska team down the road if they run the table.

If them and the Buckeyes were to both finish undefeated, it would be hard to argue that Oklahoma wouldn't have a more impressive resume if Florida State keeps winning (as they whooped OSU's best OOC win). Oklahoma misses Nebraska on the schedule this year like the Buckeyes do the Spartans, but they would play them in the conference championship game which the Buckeyes don't have a chance to do.

The Buckeyes need to stay #1 in the human polls in the event there are multiple undefeateds as mentioned above because even being #2 would really hurt if the computers don't start showing them some more love.

Long long way to go still, but I don't think it is safe to say that just because they are #1 now means they stay that way just by going undefeated. I think if there are multiple undefeated teams we are going to see style points and strength of schedule considered by voters down the stretch in a way I am not sure they have been before where it was always win and stay where you're at no matter how ugly it may be.

Here's a question; if Ohio State finishes unbeaten and #1 in the AP poll and declared AP national champions (similar to USC in 2003) yet they are left out of the BCS title game, would OSU fans declare it a national title year? Many OSU fans did not recognize the legitmacy of the USC AP title in 2003, would they also not recognize an AP title given to the Buckeyes in 2010?

I don't even know if this happens anymore or if the AP changed that after that season. They may have, I don't remember.

dwccrew;518986 wrote:Here's a question; if Ohio State finishes unbeaten and #1 in the AP poll and declared AP national champions (similar to USC in 2003) yet they are left out of the BCS title game, would OSU fans declare it a national title year? Many OSU fans did not recognize the legitmacy of the USC AP title in 2003, would they also not recognize an AP title given to the Buckeyes in 2010?

I don't even know if this happens anymore or if the AP changed that after that season. They may have, I don't remember.

I'm gonna go out on a very short limb here and say that suddenly the AP Poll would take on a much greater importance in the college football world and the BCS would become a nonsense AP wannabe.

dwccrew;518986 wrote:Here's a question; if Ohio State finishes unbeaten and #1 in the AP poll and declared AP national champions (similar to USC in 2003) yet they are left out of the BCS title game, would OSU fans declare it a national title year? Many OSU fans did not recognize the legitmacy of the USC AP title in 2003, would they also not recognize an AP title given to the Buckeyes in 2010?

I don't even know if this happens anymore or if the AP changed that after that season. They may have, I don't remember.

I think all schools claim any of the championships available. BCS is just one among them.

^^^
point being there are many Buckeye fans who give USC a hard time for claiming the AP (me included). Also brings up the abuse Michigan fans have taken for years about their "1/2 title". It still counts but would be disappointing to just have the AP crown.

georgemc80;519329 wrote:^^^
point being there are many Buckeye fans who give USC a hard time for claiming the AP (me included). Also brings up the abuse Michigan fans have taken for years about their "1/2 title". It still counts but would be disappointing to just have the AP crown.

I've never understood people not wanting to give USC credit for their AP title in 2003. USC was #1 in both polls before the bowl games and every, and I mean EVERYONE, thought that USC should have played in the title game that year, and even after the title game most people still thought that USC was the most deserving team of the title. It wasn't until someone took out an anti USC billboard that people started discounting their title that year. I've always said that USC was the best team that year and that they should have been in the title game and that they would have won. I also claim that OSU has seven national titles because we claim the same seven that the NCAA recognizes in their record books. So yes, if OSU was left out of the title game but voted #1 by the AP I would claim that title just as much as any other.

I'm sure some would remain consistent and not count it but rest assured that there would be quite a few changing their stance in regards to the "worth" of an AP championship.

If Ohio State wins out, they will be in the title game. I don't care if half the country is undefeated, this is Ohio State, and we going to win the whole damn thing.

Don't worry about the computer rankings, Ohio State still has to play Wisconsin, Iowa, and Michigan, all teams that are better than 95% of the country.

georgemc80;519329 wrote:^^^
point being there are many Buckeye fans who give USC a hard time for claiming the AP (me included). Also brings up the abuse Michigan fans have taken for years about their "1/2 title". It still counts but would be disappointing to just have the AP crown.

Nobody cares about Michigan, they are a joke, and they already have another guaranteed loss when they come to the shoe, and get absolutely stomped.

sleeper;519353 wrote:If Ohio State wins out, they will be in the title game.

period.

enigmaax;518989 wrote:I'm gonna go out on a very short limb here and say that suddenly the AP Poll would take on a much greater importance in the college football world and the BCS would become a nonsense AP wannabe.

..

sleeper;519353 wrote:Don't worry about the computer rankings, Ohio State still has to play Wisconsin, Iowa, and Michigan, all teams that are better than 95% of the country.

sleeper;519353 wrote:Nobody cares about Michigan, they are a joke, and they already have another guaranteed loss when they come to the shoe, and get absolutely stomped.

Um, ok?

WebFire;519549 wrote:Um, ok?

psssst, psssst......he is an OSU student. So, he never makes sense.

enigmaax;518989 wrote:I'm gonna go out on a very short limb here and say that suddenly the AP Poll would take on a much greater importance in the college football world and the BCS would become a nonsense AP wannabe.

+1

WebFire;519549 wrote:Um, ok?

Some Michigan fans cannot take a compliment. You may be good, but you will lose to Ohio State, how does that feel, 8 in a row?