it is amusing to see leftists suddenly interested in religious freedom.

Glory days, pardon my ignorance, but was the mosque that is 4 blocks away built before or after 9/11?

IMO, though America has had its moments, it has stood behind more freedoms and been more tolerant than any Muslim nation has.

I believe it's time for them to make the offer.

So....after 9 pages, what has been accomplished here? Nothing. Each side tries to make their point in the hopes of convincing the other side that they are wrong and need to change their mind. Face it.....when a poster gets on here and then gets persuaded to say "oh, I see...you're right"....when does that happen? The answer is "never". Might as well just go beat your head into the wall. BUT, what makes America great is your right to say what you want. And Democracy rules.........usually.

BRF;458319 wrote:So....after 9 pages, what has been accomplished here?

About as much as any forum on this site.

BRF;458319 wrote:So....after 9 pages, what has been accomplished here? Nothing. Each side tries to make their point in the hopes of convincing the other side that they are wrong and need to change their mind. Face it.....when a poster gets on here and then gets persuaded to say "oh, I see...you're right"....when does that happen? The answer is "never". Might as well just go beat your head into the wall. BUT, what makes America great is your right to say what you want. And Democracy rules.........usually.

Here's your summary:
1. Muslims are a kind people and whatever they want should be granted. It is the religiion of peace, folks. Please do not question their motives nor intents.
2. Whatever Muslims want, Muslims should get, no questions asked.
3. Sharia law only applies to Muslims, so don't be aftraid, infidels.
4. The socialists and elites in America blame America for anything evil associated with 911. All other religions except Christianity and Judaism are absolved. Hallelujah!
5. The Muslims can do whatever they want, when they want, and it doesn't matter whom it offends.
6. American is still full of Nazis, so beware Muslims of white people wearing tea bag symbols and speaking with a Southern dialect.

I think that pretty much covers it, doesn't it Glory and Gibby?

ccv

BG: Do you mean "Tea Party" as opposed to "Tea Bag"? I only asked because I'm pretty sure there is a difference!

Concerning you point #3: I think that this is what I think most people have beef with. Some folks see things short term, as in isolated incedents. Other people have a "big picture" view and see this mosque as the first stages of Muslims trying to institute Islam in our way of life. The latter are up in arms because they "know" the end result, while the aforementioned only see it as this one mosque being built.

Again I'll ask, when is the Islamic religion satisfied? And how is that answer to come about?

I'm convinced as well....the Muslims and their mighty military will overthrow the United States...it's only a matter of time.

Footwedge: Do you realize that the Romans were not defeated by a military? It's not about military might, it's about working your way through the politcal and social system and slowly breaking those systems down.

What is the end result or goal of Islam? And how is that answer to come about?

Jason Bourne;458386 wrote:Footwedge: Do you realize that the Romans were not defeated by a military? It's not about military might, it's about working your way through the politcal and social system and slowly breaking those systems down.

What is the end result or goal of Islam? And how is that answer to come about?

Do you honestly believe that the Muslim Religion will actually take over the US? I mean. Come on. Like McEnroe said. "You cannot be serious."

As for the Romans....they went broke because their Empire...in occupying the planet forced them to go broke....no different than what's happening with the American Empire...for the exact same reasons. But it won't be by some religion that has no military power at all. Now China is another story.

superman;458286 wrote:it is amusing to see leftists suddenly interested in religious freedom.

Glory days, pardon my ignorance, but was the mosque that is 4 blocks away built before or after 9/11?

It was actually built before the WTCs were. So yeah, slight difference, but no one is asking that terrorist hub of a mosque to relocate. And the prayer center, that all religions use, inside the pentagon I believe was built in 2002, cant be for sure though. And by the way, I lean right, not left.

BGFalcons82;458352 wrote:Here's your summary:
1. Muslims are a kind people and whatever they want should be granted. It is the religiion of peace, folks. Please do not question their motives nor intents.
2. Whatever Muslims want, Muslims should get, no questions asked.
3. Sharia law only applies to Muslims, so don't be aftraid, infidels.
4. The socialists and elites in America blame America for anything evil associated with 911. All other religions except Christianity and Judaism are absolved. Hallelujah!
5. The Muslims can do whatever they want, when they want, and it doesn't matter whom it offends.
6. American is still full of Nazis, so beware Muslims of white people wearing tea bag symbols and speaking with a Southern dialect.

I think that pretty much covers it, doesn't it Glory and Gibby?

7.) Muslims in america arent really americans.
8.) Non muslims in american have the right to tell muslims what to do in america.

There you missed those two.

Footwedge;458435 wrote:Do you honestly believe that the Muslim Religion will actually take over the US? I mean. Come on. Like McEnroe said. "You cannot be serious."

Footwedge, is there a full moon, I think we are agreeing on something.

Footwedge;458383 wrote:I'm convinced as well....the Muslims and their mighty military will overthrow the United States...it's only a matter of time.

don’t forget, its because of the mosque near ground zero. They cant do it from any other mosque in the united states. Only this mosque will bring the US to its knees.

Glory Days;458464 wrote:...don’t forget, its because of the mosque near ground zero. They cant do it from any other mosque in the united states. Only this mosque will bring the US to its knees.

NAW...you're giving it too much credit. It'll simply serve as a staging and recruiting depot for potential radical Islamic terrorists of the domestic variety.

superman;458286 wrote:it is amusing to see leftists suddenly interested in religious freedom.

This is one of the more fascinating aspects of this debate.

While the left has gone over-the-top to criticize, denigrate, belittle, and attempt to stifle the so-called American "religious right," they don't seem to have any problems whatsoever in stepping up to the plate to "protect" the freedoms of the self-proclaimed religion of peace.

The ironic thing is Islamic extremism could care less if we are Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative, Christian or atheist. It has but one goal in mind: Convert or kill the infidel....or die trying.

Once again the Imam who wants to build this mosque near Ground Zero certainly has a right to do so in this country, but it is quite clear to me that the purpose in doing so has very little to do with accommodating the spiritual needs of the Manhattan Muslim community.

The insidious nature of radical Islam may never have the ability of bringing the United States to its knees, but it has and will forever change our perception of Islam in general.

The "religion of peace" has its work cut out if it ever hopes to live up to its self-proclaimed moniker.

superman;458286 wrote:it is amusing to see leftists suddenly interested in religious freedom.

This is one of the more fascinating aspects of this debate.

While the left has gone over-the-top to criticize, denigrate, belittle, and attempt to stifle the so-called American "religious right," they don't seem to have any problems whatsoever in stepping up to the plate to "protect" the freedoms of the self-proclaimed religion of peace.

The ironic thing is Islamic extremism could care less if we are Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative, Christian or atheist. It has but one goal in mind: Convert or kill the infidel or die trying.

Once again the Imam who wants to build this mosque near Ground Zero certainly has a right to do so in this country, but it is quite clear to me that the purpose in doing has very little to do with accommodating the spiritual needs of the Manhattan Muslim community.

The insidious nature of radical Islam may never have the ability of bringing the United States to its knees, but it has and will forever change our perception of Islam in general.

The "religion of peace" has its work cut out if it ever hopes to live up to its self-proclaimed moniker.

majorspark;457765 wrote:You don't need superior knowledge to see your comparison of the this mosque controversy to kristalnacht as total bullshit. Just a basic knowledge of history and a little common sense is all it takes.

On this night, Germans citizens and SA (mostly SA) damaged (or destroyed) 1574 synagogues, many Jewish cemeteries, 7500 Jewish shops, 29 department stores. Some Jews were beaten to death, while others were forced to watch. The conservative estimate is that 91 people suffered violent deaths. More than 30000 Jewish men were arrested and sent to concentration camps.
http://naziwarcrimes.wordpress.com/2008/01/24/kristallnacht-night-of-broken-glass/

Sound anything remotely like what is going on today?

Wow cut and paste now that's an impressive display of your "superior" knowledge. LOL

If you mean that we can not draw a parallel to a group of people targeting a whole race of people and blaming them for something that had nothing to do with, then you are more dense then I thought.

Personally, if I had anything to do with the decision to build, I would just pick another spot. Most people agree with that, but this is not the issue. The issue is about the right to build it. Funny all you conservatives are all about states rights and the Constitution as our forefathers wrote it. You can not pick and chose how you personally would apply the Constitution of the United States.

Bigdogg;458529 wrote:Funny all you conservatives are all about states rights and the Constitution as our forefathers wrote it. You can not pick and chose how you personally would apply the Constitution of the United States.

If you're going to use that to make a point in your own person views or to make a point in general, at least admit and point out that liberals do it also.

I mean, didn't the people who worshipped at the alter of the new healthcare insurance bill also pick and chose what they would "apply to the Constitution of the United States" when they interpreted "promote the general welfare" ???

lol, I mean come on....

^^^

How many people have actually said they don't have a right to build it - assuming the zoning board is fine with it? I haven't had time to read all 10 pages on this thread, but the ones I have I didn't see anyone making that claim.

It is really easy to win an argument when you make the opposition's for them - i.e. a strawman.

I haven't seen anyone say they don't have a right to build it. I have seen LOTS of folks saying it is wrong for a variety of other reasons.

Oh and Footwedge, go ask folks in Western Europe about whether they feel Islamization is a threat to them, even without an army of Muslims crossing the continent. There is more than one way to conquer an enemy -- it doesn't have to involve overwhelming force. But then, you knew that I'm sure. You were just playing dumb to make a point.

Writerbuckeye;458643 wrote:I...go ask folks in Western Europe about whether they feel Islamization is a threat to them, even without an army of Muslims crossing the continent. There is more than one way to conquer an enemy -- it doesn't have to involve overwhelming force.

The Brits, French, and Germans are all "enjoying" the introduction of Sharia law into the mix. You are correct - military conquests aren't the only means to bringing down an enemy.....in this case the Great Satan.

I'm an atheist so I am not enthusiastic about building a house of worship anywhere. Having said that, Muslims have every right under our Constitution to build a mosque wherever they chose. In all fairness, I have to defend Muslims if I am to defend my right not to believe.

FairwoodKing;458679 wrote:I'm an atheist so I am not enthusiastic about building a house of worship anywhere. Having said that, Muslims have every right under our Constitution to build a mosque wherever they chose. In all fairness, I have to defend Muslims if I am to defend my right not to believe.

That's great of you Fairwood. If and when Sharia law takes hold in the United States (and some say it already has in some areas), just keep in mind that Islam makes evangelical Christianity seem ultra-liberal when it comes to acceptance of things like - say - gay activism.

Bigdogg;458529 wrote:Wow cut and paste now that's an impressive display of your "superior" knowledge. LOL

Never said I had superior knowledge. I don't go around memorizing numbers and details surrounding the events of Kristalnacht I quoted in that article. But in typical fashion as one whose arguments, when presented with the facts, are shown to be utterly false they resort to cute little insults of those presenting the facts.

Bigdogg;458529 wrote:If you mean that we can not draw a parallel to a group of people targeting a whole race of people and blaming them for something that had nothing to do with, then you are more dense then I thought

Sure you can, but the parallel would be weak. In fact go ahead a present them. I would also point out you said "feels more like Kristallnacht" an actual event in history. Rather than comparing it to the anti Semitic mood in Germany. It also should be noted that the events on kristallnacht were triggered by the assassination of a German diplomat in Paris by a jewish extremist.

Radical islamic elements took down more than two buildings in NYC, damaged the pentagon, hijacking and crashing three commercial airliners, and killing nearly 3,000 Americans. The backlash against muslims in America was mild. No wide spread killing of muslims, no wide spread destruction of mosques, no wide spread destruction of muslim businesses, and no rounding up of 10's of thousands of muslim men to be placed in concentration camps.

Seven years later we elect a president with a muslim father, who attended a muslim school in a muslim country, and has a muslim sounding name. We are so far from your comparisons of kristallnacht and what happened to the Jews in Germany it is ridiculous.

Bigdogg;458529 wrote:Personally, if I had anything to do with the decision to build, I would just pick another spot. Most people agree with that, but this is not the issue. The issue is about the right to build it. Funny all you conservatives are all about states rights and the Constitution as our forefathers wrote it. You can not pick and chose how you personally would apply the Constitution of the United States.

I have not given my opinion of the matter on this thread. So you are making an assumption. One that is quite false. A trend of yours on this thread.

Personally I think the Imam behind this at worst holds radical extremist islamic beliefs. At best he sympathizes with them. I think he chose a location as close as he could get to ground zero to make a point to the muslim world. Like you I think he should clear this all up and pick another spot.

Let me say this loud and clear. I do not want the federal government to intervene in anyway. Even if that means the mosque is built on the planned site. The state of NY and specifically the local government in NYC are more then capable to handle this issue. They are the ones that live there..

majorspark;458682 wrote:Radical islamic elements took down more than two buildings in NYC, damaged the pentagon, hijacking and crashing three commercial airliners, and killing nearly 3,000 Americans. The backlash against muslims in America was mild. No wide spread killing of muslims, no wide spread destruction of mosques, no wide spread destruction of muslim businesses, and no rounding up of 10's of thousands of muslim men to be placed in concentration camps.

Seven years later we elect a president with a muslim father, who attended a muslim school in a muslim country, and has a muslim sounding name. We are so far from your comparisons of kristallnacht and what happened to the Jews in Germany it is ridiculous.

Only in America.

believer;458719 wrote:Only in America.

Exactly. And I "second" the post you were referring to, like a "second" at the NYC Planning Commission motioning to deny the building of "The Mosque", IF that ever happens. Democracy!

Major has just kicked the bigdogg off the porch.

Manhattan Buckeye;458534 wrote:^^^

How many people have actually said they don't have a right to build it - assuming the zoning board is fine with it? I haven't had time to read all 10 pages on this thread, but the ones I have I didn't see anyone making that claim.

It is really easy to win an argument when you make the opposition's for them - i.e. a strawman.

BRF;458730 wrote:Exactly. And I "second" the post you were referring to, like a "second" at the NYC Planning Commission motioning to deny the building of "The Mosque", IF that ever happens. Democracy!

i thought i saw on the news the building was already approved like 6 months ago or something, i may be wrong though.