UA5straightin2008;443276 wrote:i dont mean to offend, but is that serious?

None taken and yea I was being serious and for the record I'm not a religious person by any means.

well never having seen someone die, i cant agree or disagree with you, but i have a hard time believing what you say as far as seeing a soul leave the body

honestly i think the whole religion thing is in your (not you gerb, but anyone's) head

Didn't nescessarily see anything leave it just felt like something left other than the person dying. Like the very last breath and then a few seconds later it was like a poof. Don't know it just seemed really odd. Like I said I'm not religious and neither was the person who died it just felt like that person left the room other than being dead if ya know what I mean.

I don't think so, and that's enough for me.

Steel Valley Football;443226 wrote:Man is Carlin annoying. I haven't found him funny since he came up with the seven words bit - I think I was 10. I wasn't even able to open this he's so bad.

GOAT comedian.

Belief in a higher being is NOT bullshit. That's faith.

Organized groups/congregations designed to attract as many people as possible to make as much money as possible is a complete bullshit beaurocracy. Organized religion is the longest running cash grab scam in the history of our planet, designed to confuse you between something that's real to you (i.e. faith) into giving money to be part of a made up "group" that YOU'RE ALREADY PART OF if you believe in God. If you don't go every sunday and "confess" and take part in the church's ceremonies (all of which you can do in your own home) then you're a sinner. Let's brainwash people into thinking them they HAVE to come to our church every week or God will be disappointed in them, that way they come every week and donate money. That's "religion".

I fully believe in God and higher being. I keep it to myself and practice it in my own home. I'm not part of any church or religion because of the dozens I've been to, I haven't found one yet that's more about God than money. In fact, anymore, about 75% of church related functions I've seen, it's amazing that you can tell they're a church based function at all. It sounds more like one of those get rich quick speils that you see on TV at 3am.

Faith and a personal relationship to whatever God you believe in is NOT a communal event. It is a personal relationship. Church was created to benefit off of that intensely personal relationship that many people have. You may laugh at the comparison, but it's much the same idea as dating websites designed to make money off of people's guilt about not being able to find a stable relationship. It's funny until you think about how similar they are in relation to how they came about.

I applaud you for being able to separate your faith from what organized religion has become.

Yes.

I think that when George passed away, America lost one of the great observers of social mores in our history. I was raised by a strict Southern Baptist mother and a Christmas-Easter Methodist father (who disliked Blacks intensely, by the way). I thought they were the greatest parents a kid could have. I still do. I don't share some of George's views about religion, but I can say this. It is hard to "prove" something that you can't see. You either BELIEVE unconditionally, or you don't. Believe and prove are not the same thing.

If you believe in God, I say good for you and keep right on "keeping on", if you don't, I would say that that is what makes our country a very special place. Not necessarily that you have no religious attachments, but that you have the right to view religion in that way and express it openly and freely. George's comments did not kill anyone, they did not take advantage of anyone, they did not persecute anyone, It was an act and I found it thought-provoking and entertaining.

If there is ever a time when he, and folks like him, are prevented from expressing the views he presented in that skit, then our country will have become considerably less than it is when all can speak freely. George is probably sitting in a celestial bar right now quaffing a brew or two with others of his ilk, sharing stories and laughing out loud at some of the absurdities in life.

If you believe he isn't in heaven, you may be right. If he isn't in heaven, George is probably still at a bar and probably having more fun, because there wouldn't be any old WCTU members outside picketing, (because you just know that those ladies will be in heaven for their battle against "Demon Rum"), plus, the bar will probably be integrated. the Conservative Christians will not be there to pass any heavenly restrictive covenants.

If looking at different religions only as a whole, it can be quite disheartening, as far as corruption goes.
But, every person and every church does have their own story to tell.

For example: The church I was brought up in was a little rural Methodist church. I didn't like, and was pretty much afraid of the minister. He was very old, used ancient tactics (hellfire and brimstone). Some years later he was actually part of the reason I left that church. It wasn't just his message but his delivery also. (at any rate, I also am in debt to him because he's also part of the reason as to why I have the thoughts that I do today, but that's another story)
Any way, my aunt was in charge of the church's treasury, and I went to alot of the church meetings with her.
The point of my story is that the church I went to did take a collection at every service. You betcha. But, it's not like it was financially corrupt at all. Between buying church supplies, buying food for food baskets, helping people who were experiencing hard times financially, repairs/paint every couple of years, etc. - there wasn't very much left over at the end of every month. I remember a few times when there just wasn't enough money to pay the electric bill. They had to have cake walks, bake sales, and community fairs to supplement what the collection plate couldn't do.

But, realities like that ^^^ are often lost in the headlines of mega-churches, Jim Baker type stories and all the rest. Sometimes, it just takes a discerning eye to be able to see past all the hoopla to realize that it's real easy to label religions as a whole, beliefs or proofs aside.

ts1227;443270 wrote:I agree with this as well, then my next line usually offends people.

Since nothing can be neither proved nor disproved either way, is it worth the time or energy bothering with it?

There are millions of things that can not be proved or disproved that we willingly use up our time and energy bothering with.

Love, origins of life, many many things in the cosmos (ort clouds, black holes, worm holes, etc), heck, philosophically one can't really prove the computer they are reading this post on really exists.

So, spending time/energy on things that can/can not be proven happens all the time, and we as humans do it willingly to learn about our surroundings, enjoy life (love), etc.

I believe that faith in God is the best way to live my life. I don't always act as the best example though. I do have a hard time with the organized religion in church. I try to use church as a recharging session, in the sense that I listen to the sermon to find a message that pertains to my life or one that sparks an aha moment. So to answer the question, for me religion is not bull****.

I Wear Pants;443316 wrote:GOAT comedian.

LOL! Now that's serious comedy!

Fiance have had this discussion a few times.

I believe there is a higher being of some sort. What I don't believe is the bible and the stories. Seriously, walking on water, building a massive ark to withstand a major worldwide flood by 1 man and was able to get a pair of each animal on it. I hope one day my questions are answered but until then I'll believe the bible as much as I believe a Dr. Seuss book.

It's one of those entirely personal issues. If you think it's BS, then it is. If you don't it isn't.

Nate;443479 wrote:Fiance have had this discussion a few times.

I believe there is a higher being of some sort. What I don't believe is the bible and the stories. Seriously, walking on water, building a massive ark to withstand a major worldwide flood by 1 man and was able to get a pair of each animal on it. I hope one day my questions are answered but until then I'll believe the bible as much as I believe a Dr. Seuss book.

Do you mind if I ask an honest question? If you don't believe, "the bible and the stories" and think it's equivalent to a Dr. Seuss book, then what is your foundation in believing in a higher power at all? The reason I ask is because this realization is what led me to the conclusions I've made about religion and god!

Bigred1995;443539 wrote:Do you mind if I ask an honest question? If you don't believe, "the bible and the stories" and think it's equivalent to a Dr. Seuss book, then what is your foundation in believing in a higher power at all? The reason I ask is because this realization is what led me to the conclusions I've made about religion and god!

Someone/something had to create everything that exists, that is really the only reason why I believe a high being/God/Allah/whatever exists. Not because a burning bush talked to someone.

I don't mind answering the question. It's a great debate as long as people don't stand pat in their belief. I understand that people do believe the bible and believe in prayer in such. I just don't know if I could ever consume my lifestyle so much into a belief. I believe the Browns will eventually win a Super Bowl but I don't go about every day arguing about it, justifying why, etc..

aliens!!

Fab1b;443559 wrote:aliens!!

Sad thing is, for those scientists that do not believe in a higher power, that is now one of their "viable theories" for the origins of life, since nearly all of them now agree that the first cell couldn't come from "primordial soup" of amino acids". However, a higher power is not considered a "viable theory" by them.

jmog;443564 wrote:since nearly all of them now agree that the first cell couldn't come from "primordial soup" of amino acids".

I usually find your arguments pretty good and reasonably open minded (way more open minded than most people who argue for or against religion) but I think that's a false statement.

Man has always had superstition and ignorance and used it to explain or create things he didn't know or understand about life ( or a hoped for afterlife). I rarely waste time arguing about religion & god. The shame is its often the excuse or reason that screws up much of our political lives with unadulterated bullsh!t. Being a "believer" often is to thrust your religious belifs into politics where man truly fu*ks up when you should instead keep your religion where it belongs -- in your private life. And I always love the "believers" who want to tear down science , where things do indeed get proven and evidence shown and instead want you to believe their fairy tales without one shred of evidence.

Carlin was funny while at the same time, exposing bullsh!t around us daily.

Nate;443553 wrote:I don't mind answering the question. It's a great debate as long as people don't stand pat in their belief. I understand that people do believe the bible and believe in prayer in such. I just don't know if I could ever consume my lifestyle so much into a belief. I believe the Browns will eventually win a Super Bowl but I don't go about every day arguing about it, justifying why, etc..

Whether the Browns win the Super Bowl doesn't affect your eternity. Many religious people believe that their actions here will affect them for all eternity. That seems to be something slightly more important and worth making a priority.

I don't mind if people attempt to proselytize me. It just shows that they care. If I come across a good restaurant, or a good product, I tell my friends about it because I care about them and want what is best for them. I want them to taste the great pizza or try the new product because I want good things for people I love. Similarly, if a friend recommends a restaurant, I don't get upset, even if I don't think it's a good restaurant. They're just looking out for me.

If people are willing to do that over a restaurant, how much more should they do it over something affecting eternity? I mean, if a person truly believes that they have the secret to eternal bliss, while others who don't believe the same way will be in eternal damnation, then it's abhorrent for them NOT to attempt to change minds. My feelings aren't hurt if someone demonstrates that they truly care about me and want to help me move in what they perceive as the right direction.

UA5straightin2008;443258 wrote:yes, it is a tool used to give people a (false) sense of hope while they are alive...a way to end suffering for the time being, with wishful thinking that something better lies ahead, when in reality..well i wont go there

I see your point but not all religions are focused on being good/restricting yourself for the promise of a better afterlife. My religion, Judaism is more focused on being a good person and doing good deeds (or mitzvot in Hebrew) in order to create a more fulfilling life while you are here on Earth. That is a concept I can get behind and why I am a believer in this religion.

Paladin;443596 wrote:And I always love the "believers" who want to tear down science , where things do indeed get proven and evidence shown and instead want you to believe their fairy tales without one shred of evidence.

It's not like religious people have a monopoly on dumb ideas. I've met plenty of brilliant Christians and plenty of stupid Christians. Similarly, I've met plenty of brilliant Democrats and plenty of stupid Democrats. I've met plenty of brilliant right-handed people and plenty of stupid right-handed people. Noting that some portion of any massive group holds odd ideas doesn't really do anything to discredit the group as a whole. The whole "my daddy can beat up your little sister" approach isn't particularly valid at winning arguments.

If you want the truth of the matter, it's probably best to focus on the best proponents of it, not the worst.