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New Orleans Hornets may package Darren Collison

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Pro Sports ▸ New Orleans Hornets may package Darren Collison
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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Jun 15, 2010 4:20 PM
I think he was an upgrade offensively, obviously that can't be disputed. But in the big picture, I don't think it was a good move. Hickson had rapport with Lebron and immediately after the trade, I said, well Hickson is now a bench player come playoff time. And that's what happened. However, I think Hickson is more active, a better defender and a better rebounder.

I'm not even a huge Hickson fan, but I really don't think Jameson is that much of an upgrade, and certainly not worth it when you factor in his contract.

I guess we will agree to disagree, but I just can't understand how anyone could think the Jameson trade was a good move.

And then consider this, in order to win the championship, the Cavs knew they would have to beat Boston and/or Orlando and the Lakers. Jameson is an undersized 4, so that doesn't help you against Boston or the Lakers. And he's not agile enough to run away against Orlando.
Jun 15, 2010 4:20pm
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BR1986FB

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Jun 15, 2010 7:11 PM
A little off topic but I've mentioned this before...Reghi was talking on WKNR this afternoon that the Lebron "camp" should be a little nervous if they are looking to get a max contract and a sign & trade from the Cavs. There is apparently a growing sentiment within the organization that if LBJ comes to the Cavs and says "thanks but no thanks, how bout a sign & trade?" Unless the deal is too sweet to pass on to help the Cavs stay a contender, Gilbert will likely say "thanks but no thanks, we appreciate what you've done here...buh bye."
Jun 15, 2010 7:11pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

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Jun 15, 2010 7:33 PM
BR1986FB;390663 wrote:A little off topic but I've mentioned this before...Reghi was talking on WKNR this afternoon that the Lebron "camp" should be a little nervous if they are looking to get a max contract and a sign & trade from the Cavs. There is apparently a growing sentiment within the organization that if LBJ comes to the Cavs and says "thanks but no thanks, how bout a sign & trade?" Unless the deal is too sweet to pass on to help the Cavs stay a contender, Gilbert will likely say "thanks but no thanks, we appreciate what you've done here...buh bye."

Eh, I can't possibly see the logic behind letting Lebron go for nothing when they can get a sign and trade done and at least get pieces in place to help the rebuilding.
Jun 15, 2010 7:33pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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Jun 15, 2010 8:17 PM
1. Lebron apparently isn't seeking a max deal, he's looking for 3 years so that he's a free agent once again in his prime and can reassess everything.

2. Gilbert would be an idiot to say no, just in spite, if he can do something to improve his team for next year.
Jun 15, 2010 8:17pm
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

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Jun 16, 2010 12:02 AM
BR1986FB;390663 wrote:if LBJ comes to the Cavs and says "thanks but no thanks, how bout a sign & trade?" Unless the deal is too sweet to pass on to help the Cavs stay a contender, Gilbert will likely say "thanks but no thanks, we appreciate what you've done here...buh bye."

That would be an all-time case of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Gilbert has been a good businessman but you can't let emotions get in the way. (He doesn't want to be the guy that traded Lebron, and wants the fanbase to think he is the good guy). You gotta make a deal if Lebron is saying he is leaving. Get some players in there and rebuild. The Cavs aren't in L.A. or NY. Free agents won't be flocking there. They are going to have to draft their talent/trade for it.
Jun 16, 2010 12:02am
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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Jun 16, 2010 12:04 AM
You do not sign and trade LeBron, you do NOT want to be THAT guy.

Besides, I'd rather just let him walk if he chooses. We're not going to get equal talent, but it does shed salary off. With that, we can then go into a full blown rebuild mode and shed a lot of cap, stock up picks, and build a team like OKC did.
Jun 16, 2010 12:04am
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

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Jun 16, 2010 12:08 AM
hoops23;391096 wrote:You do not sign and trade LeBron, you do NOT want to be THAT guy.

Besides, I'd rather just let him walk if he chooses. We're not going to get equal talent, but it does shed salary off. With that, we can then go into a full blown rebuild mode and shed a lot of cap, stock up picks, and build a team like OKC did.

They'll have cap to sign a guy, sure. Especially with the Lebron money. However, they are going to be looking at a guy below Tier 1 (D-Wade, Lebron, Bosh) and they are going to have to give him max money. They'll win 40 games a year and never make it past the 2 round.

If you trade Lebron, you get back 3-4 nice chips plus maybe a high pick and you build for your future.
Jun 16, 2010 12:08am
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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Jun 16, 2010 12:14 AM
If you trade LeBron, you get 2-3 guys who tie up cap space and unless it's to New Jersey, the pick isn't even close to being worth it.

Let LeBron walk and do not help the other team out.

You instantly fall to 8 million or so under the cap and you have a little more wiggle room to make trades for expiring contracts. Tank the season for a high pick and build through the draft with key FA's here and there..

However, all of this is moot to me, I think he's staying.
Jun 16, 2010 12:14am
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sportswizuhrd

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3,215 posts
Jun 16, 2010 12:30 AM
Taken from the boards of realgm.com. To my knowledge they are not reports or rumors, just ideas with salaries taken into consideration(alot like we do here).

Lakers...
My offer would be Bynum,Odom and (Artest if needed) for Lebron,Moon
Blazers..
I think the Blazers would offer Aldridge, Pryzbilla, Rudy and a pick.
Pistons..
Stuckey, Prince (Exp) or Gordon and #7??
Philly...
#2+AI2+Speights.
The title of the thread was LeBron's trade value so it was basically come up with a good scenario. For what we would get back, the Blazers deal would be the best but we would not be replacing LBJ at the 3 with that deal. Rudy-2, LA-4, Pryz-5.
Jun 16, 2010 12:30am
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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Jun 16, 2010 12:49 AM
LOL @ all of those.
Jun 16, 2010 12:49am
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BR1986FB

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Jun 16, 2010 5:30 AM
hoops23;391096 wrote:You do not sign and trade LeBron, you do NOT want to be THAT guy.

Besides, I'd rather just let him walk if he chooses. We're not going to get equal talent, but it does shed salary off. With that, we can then go into a full blown rebuild mode and shed a lot of cap, stock up picks, and build a team like OKC did.

Exactly
Jun 16, 2010 5:30am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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Jun 16, 2010 9:40 AM
hoops23;391096 wrote:With that, we can then go into a full blown rebuild mode and shed a lot of cap, stock up picks, and build a team like OKC did.

That's a lot easier said than done.
Jun 16, 2010 9:40am
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BR1986FB

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Jun 16, 2010 9:51 AM
hoops23;391105 wrote:

Let LeBron walk and do not help the other team out.

These are exactly my thoughts.

Sure, Lebron has done a lot for the city of Cleveland but it's not like Gilbert hasn't given him the moon and the sun in return. To ask to be signed for maximum money and THEN traded to a loaded team that he chooses? That's a slap in the face to Gilbert.

Adding a couple of scrubs via sign & trade isn't going to help the team anyhow. Unless you're getting a Kobe, D-Wade, etc in return (which you won't), you say "thanks for your service, see ya." I let him walk so he has to choose between teams that he's less likely to win a championship with like Chicago, NJ, NYK, etc.

If Gilbert signs & trades him, HE'LL be the one as villified as Modell, Boozer, etc. Let Lebron walk and be that villain.
Jun 16, 2010 9:51am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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Jun 16, 2010 10:04 AM
Not really sure how Lebron can be considered a villian, he rebuilt the franchise himself and has been great to the cities of Akron and Cleveland. All he's asked for was a competitive team to win a championship. Although the current team is close, it's basically solely because of Lebron. He wants a true #2 option and Cleveland hasn't been able to get him that. I don't blame him one bit for exploring other options.
Jun 16, 2010 10:04am
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BR1986FB

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Jun 16, 2010 10:40 AM
thedynasty1998;391298 wrote:Not really sure how Lebron can be considered a villian, he rebuilt the franchise himself and has been great to the cities of Akron and Cleveland. All he's asked for was a competitive team to win a championship. Although the current team is close, it's basically solely because of Lebron. He wants a true #2 option and Cleveland hasn't been able to get him that. I don't blame him one bit for exploring other options.

He won't be a villain with me but I know the Cleveland fans' mindset. He will be hated immensely in these parts if he leaves. He's nowhere near in the same class as Modell or Boozer. And before you say he won't be hated, this is a fanbase that pelted referees with bottles so they WILL hate him if he leaves.

I won't wish anything bad on him (healthwise) but I won't cheer for him or hope he does well (as in championships) with another team. Once you leave you're the enemy. Nothing personal, just business...
Jun 16, 2010 10:40am
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hangonsloopy

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Jun 16, 2010 5:14 PM
I'll be the first to admit he will be up there with Modell to me. And I NEVER would have even thought that before game 5 and the rest of this circus happened. For him to completely tank, shrug it off, then go on Larry King and act like he doesn't have a care in the world just rubbed me the wrong way. Add the fact that pretty much every other superstar free agent has come out and at least commented a little on their situation. If he leaves what I'll remember most about him is tanking in the playoffs. I think his image will take a hit nationally too. Actually, I think it already has. I think he is starting to come off as self centered and snobby. Plus if he goes somewhere else he will always have that "couldn't win a title for his hometown" tag. Plus, if he really means it when he says "All I care about is winning championships", then he won't leave. The only team that I could argue is even close to the Cavs is Chicago, but even that is a stretch.


That being said, I still think deep down he's a good guy and might just be caught up in all the hype and people that are trying to wine and dine him. Since he's been here he has never done anything to tarnish his image or the city's. He's one of the few mega superstars that actually conducts himself very well on and off the court. That's part of the reason I'm shocked with the way things have gone since game 5.

I guess that makes me a bitter Cleveland fan. :)
Jun 16, 2010 5:14pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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Jun 16, 2010 5:42 PM
LeBron will be right up there with this generation of Cleveland fans in terms of Modell.

He'll also be vastly more hated than Boozer, that won't even be close.

He's all we have right now (unless the Browns really kick it up a notch this year)
Jun 16, 2010 5:42pm
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BR1986FB

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Jun 16, 2010 9:31 PM
hoops23;391995 wrote:
He's all we have right now (unless the Browns really kick it up a notch this year)

Which kinda brings me to my next topic...a lot of people will probably disagree but I think that Randy Lerner may have passed Gilbert as the best owner in Cleveland.

Right now, whether successful or not, Lerner has stability in his front office. Gilbert, as of late, has turned the Cavs into a total cluster fuck.

He sets his sights on Izzo, money be damned, and loses his number 1 target. His supposed backup plan, Byron Scott, is also in "wait & see" mode. With the way he's going, he's likely gonna end up with Mike Brown's assistant, Malone, as his next head coach.

I'm not saying Gilbert can't turn this around but right now he looks like he's trying to play "fantasy basketball" and the team is viewed as in major disarray. He really screwed the pooch by offering Izzo $30 million because if he IS fortunate enough to land a Byron Scott, guess what he'll be (over)paying him?

Gilbert needs to turn these decisions over to his "basketball guys" and not THINK he knows basketball.
Jun 16, 2010 9:31pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

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Jun 16, 2010 9:42 PM
I disagree....the Dolans are the best owners that Cleveland has.
Jun 16, 2010 9:42pm
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BR1986FB

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Jun 16, 2010 9:44 PM
wes_mantooth;392244 wrote:I disagree....the Dolans are the best owners that Cleveland has.

SPOT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????????????????????*************@@@@@@@@@
Jun 16, 2010 9:44pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

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Jun 16, 2010 9:46 PM
BR1986FB;392246 wrote:SPOT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I'm a LAWYER!!!?????????????????????????????????*************@@@@@@@@@

Fixed.
Jun 16, 2010 9:46pm
hangonsloopy's avatar

hangonsloopy

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Jun 16, 2010 9:58 PM
BR1986FB;392231 wrote:Which kinda brings me to my next topic...a lot of people will probably disagree but I think that Randy Lerner may have passed Gilbert as the best owner in Cleveland.

Right now, whether successful or not, Lerner has stability in his front office. Gilbert, as of late, has turned the Cavs into a total cluster fuck.

He sets his sights on Izzo, money be damned, and loses his number 1 target. His supposed backup plan, Byron Scott, is also in "wait & see" mode. With the way he's going, he's likely gonna end up with Mike Brown's assistant, Malone, as his next head coach.

I'm not saying Gilbert can't turn this around but right now he looks like he's trying to play "fantasy basketball" and the team is viewed as in major disarray. He really screwed the pooch by offering Izzo $30 million because if he IS fortunate enough to land a Byron Scott, guess what he'll be (over)paying him?

Gilbert needs to turn these decisions over to his "basketball guys" and not THINK he knows basketball.

I kind've agree. My only thing is until Lerner finally found a smart football guy to run the team, his front office wasn't too good either. You can't question Gilbert's commitment to winning for Cleveland. I may not agree with how he's gone about it lately, but having an owner willing to spend as much $ as needed to try and win is a rarity these days. I'm glad he owns a Cleveland team.

Now if he could only hit the lottery and buy the Indians too....
Jun 16, 2010 9:58pm
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BR1986FB

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Jun 17, 2010 8:03 AM
hangonsloopy;392262 wrote:I kind've agree. My only thing is until Lerner finally found a smart football guy to run the team, his front office wasn't too good either. You can't question Gilbert's commitment to winning for Cleveland. I may not agree with how he's gone about it lately, but having an owner willing to spend as much $ as needed to try and win is a rarity these days. I'm glad he owns a Cleveland team.

Now if he could only hit the lottery and buy the Indians too....

I've no question that Gilbert has been the best owner in town for awhile but it seems like his solution is always "let's throw more money at the problem." They have worked and reworked this roster several times and have actually "built" nothing.

I've heard rumblings that some of the acquisitions (Jamison, Shaq) were deals that Gilbert had his finger in the pie with suggesting "let's get that guy, he scores 15 ppg and has 9 rebounds" (ala fantasy basketball). I'm not saying Gilbert pulled the trigger on these but I've heard he strongly suggested the deals be made.

When an owner gets involved in the sports side of the business (see Mark Cuban, Jerry Jones), things don't usually work out well. Get a "basketball guy", whether it's Grant or whoever, and let THEM make the basketball decisions.
Jun 17, 2010 8:03am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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Jun 17, 2010 9:07 AM
You cited Cuban and Jones, both of whom run great organizations, so I don't think that is fair.

I don't think Gilbert is as hands on as some think, outside of Ohio I doubt many even know who owns the Cavs.

And although you like the owner to leave the basketball moves up to the basketball minds, it's hard to blame him for having a say in where he spends his money. I don't think that's worked out for him in the past, but I think he has the right to do that.
Jun 17, 2010 9:07am
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BR1986FB

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Jun 17, 2010 9:24 AM
thedynasty1998;392559 wrote:You cited Cuban and Jones, both of whom run great organizations, so I don't think that is fair.

And they have won HOW many championships? It's nice to run "great organizations" but if you don't win the ring you're just pissing in the wind.
Jun 17, 2010 9:24am