Manning is the only QB in the league that I would consider taking over Roethlisberger and I would still be hesitant. He wouldn't fit as nicely in Pittsburgh's system, especially with the so-so O-line.

Its been proven that Manning gets shaky once he gets hit several times. Thats what sets Ben apart from most of the QBs in the league....he is as tough as they come.

Also, I don't see the point in arguing with Cleveland fans. They literally have no players to be excited about, except for maybe Joe Thomas. They are a terrible franchise so they get their jollies off clowning other teams, Pittsburgh in particular. Just laugh them off....I've been doing it for years.

You people kill me. Ben came into the league and went 15-1 his rookie year. He already has 2 rings and finally has the offense clicking and the defense lets the team down. With a few changes here and there I can easily see him winning 2 more super bowls.

trep14 wrote:

Al Capone wrote:

DeyDurkie5 wrote:

Al Capone wrote: Anybody that calls Ben an average qb doesn't know football. He's easily in the top 5 in the league.

Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Schaub, Rivers, Brees

There isn't a qb on that list that I would take over Ben.

LOL your justification for taking Big Ben over Peyton is that Big Ben is a winner, but then say that you would take Big Ben over Tom Brady, who has won more than Ben? Are you a member of Big Ben's family or something?

Tom Brady missed a whole season and his team went 11-5. Brady is just as over-rated as Manning.

The Steelers organization better hope that they don't hire one of you guys into the front office because otherwise that franchise is going into the crapper. I love how you can discount Browns fans opinions on the counts that they support a terribly-run franchise and thus, don't know anything about football. Yet, you can sit there and say stupid things like "Roethlisberger is way better than Manning" "Manning wouldn't fit in to the Steelers system". Thank god none of you are running an NFL team, you'd be worse than the Browns management that you bash on.

trep14 wrote: The Steelers organization better hope that they don't hire one of you guys into the front office because otherwise that franchise is going into the crapper. I love how you can discount Browns fans opinions on the counts that they support a terribly-run franchise and thus, don't know anything about football. Yet, you can sit there and say stupid things like "Roethlisberger is way better than Manning" "Manning wouldn't fit in to the Steelers system". Thank god none of you are running an NFL team, you'd be worse than the Browns management that you bash on.

What is so stupid about what I said? I honestly do not think Manning would perform like he does now if he was with Pittsburgh. Its not rocket science. Pittsburgh is more of a running team and their O-line is average, if you can even call if that. They also play outdoors.

Manning fits perfectly in Indy, I just don't think he would fare as well if he was in Pittsburgh. I'm not knocking him at all...I think hes the man.

Al Capone wrote:

trep14 wrote:

Al Capone wrote:

DeyDurkie5 wrote:

Al Capone wrote: Anybody that calls Ben an average qb doesn't know football. He's easily in the top 5 in the league.

Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Schaub, Rivers, Brees

There isn't a qb on that list that I would take over Ben.

LOL your justification for taking Big Ben over Peyton is that Big Ben is a winner, but then say that you would take Big Ben over Tom Brady, who has won more than Ben? Are you a member of Big Ben's family or something?

Tom Brady missed a whole season and his team went 11-5. Brady is just as over-rated as Manning.

But Tom Brady has won three super bowls and missed out on a fourth by a miraculous catch by some no-name wide receiver...its about winning, right? Or is that just when that works in your favor? And how is Peyton Manning overrated exactly? Did you see the Colts when Curtis Painter was in there?

Pick6 wrote: I dont know about that. I think he has one of the best receiving corps in the league with Miller, Holmes, Ward, and Wallace.

I was talking more about poor pass pro he's played behind most of his career. He does hold the ball, but that's really overblown in his sack numbers. QB's get sacked a lot behind pass pro like he usually has, maybe not 50 times, but 35-40 easy.

And also referring to winning a SB with Ward, Randle El, Cedrick Wilson and a rookie TE. Even while Miller/Holmes/Ward/Wallace are a very nice group, he still doesn't have that great WR and there are easily half a dozen QB's in the league with better - Brady, Warner, Favre, Brees, Rivers, Romo....maybe Rodgers, Manning not this year but most of his career. Then when you factor in the OL and playcalling, Ben isn't exactly in an ideal situation that some of the other fantasy studs enjoy.

Brady is overrated as hell. Remeber when he lost those AFC championship games in Pittsburgh??? What a loser.

Al Capone wrote:

trep14 wrote:

Al Capone wrote:

DeyDurkie5 wrote:

Al Capone wrote: Anybody that calls Ben an average qb doesn't know football. He's easily in the top 5 in the league.

Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Schaub, Rivers, Brees

There isn't a qb on that list that I would take over Ben.

LOL your justification for taking Big Ben over Peyton is that Big Ben is a winner, but then say that you would take Big Ben over Tom Brady, who has won more than Ben? Are you a member of Big Ben's family or something?

Tom Brady missed a whole season and his team went 11-5. Brady is just as over-rated as Manning.

So, using your logic, if Big Ben is better than Manning because he has more rings, wouldn't Tom Brady be better than Big BEn since he has 3 rings?

SOME Steelers fans make me laugh.

I wouldn't say Brady is overrated. But I always hear an argument of who is the best QB in a the league and plenty of people say Brady over Manning. Manning is better than Brady and it isn't really close.

Manning does a good job getting rid of the ball quickly so I don't think the Steelers offensive line would seem as bad if he were the quarterback.

Ben does bring it on himself because he isn't as confident reading defenses and throwing quickly. He invites the pocket collapsing, at times, so he can make the big plays when the coverage has to stay with the receivers for awhile. I think Ben would make many good offensive lines seem worse if that makes sense. But he is getting much better at just reading defenses and throwing quickly. You just don't want him to not make those other plays because it makes him that much more dangerous.

When Roethlisberger was coming out of college, people rated him highly based on his talent level. He put up prolific stats in college. It just so happened that he went to a team with a good defense and running game and was close to being a contender.

In some ways that hurt him. If he had gone to a team that was terrible he probably would've just played football like a wild man and put up some big numbers but with erratic play, too. Maybe in the third or fourth year, after that once-terrible team got some more pieces, he would be a truly great quarterback with great stats.

The first couple years he made a lot of big throws but mostly either off the play-action once the running game got going or by scrambling around. Or sometimes the defenses would crowd the box at the start the Steelers chose to pass early to loosen up the defense. Ben played that type of game because it was the best for the team. All a matter of circumstances.

I would say now that he's had some years to improve in the pocket, reading defenses, calling plays at the line and so forth, he's become one of the top all-around quarterbacks. He still has the athletic ability and intangibles he's always had, just now stronger at the area that needed the most work.

I think something else to consider. The Steelers defense, and most defenses, play better when they're fresh. One reason why the Steelers have had good defenses over the years is because the offense was good at running a lot of plays, mixing it up and controlling tempo. Then the defense would come onto the field and fly around for a few plays and look great.

A lot of teams that have the quick-strike offenses don't have a good defense because their defense is back on the field quickly. The Colts may have been a more balanced team on both sides of the ball in previous years had they approached the game differently. They scored, scored, scored and then the defense gets beat and at the end of the season people think well if they only had a better defense to support Manning.

DeyDurkie5 wrote:

Al Capone wrote: Anybody that calls Ben an average qb doesn't know football. He's easily in the top 5 in the league.

Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Schaub, Rivers, Brees

That's six.

I Wear Pants wrote:

DeyDurkie5 wrote:

Al Capone wrote: Anybody that calls Ben an average qb doesn't know football. He's easily in the top 5 in the league.

Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Schaub, Rivers, Brees

That's six.

I would throw McNabb and Eli in there too.

wow the short bus is packed here.

Automatik wrote:

trep14 wrote: The Steelers organization better hope that they don't hire one of you guys into the front office because otherwise that franchise is going into the crapper. I love how you can discount Browns fans opinions on the counts that they support a terribly-run franchise and thus, don't know anything about football. Yet, you can sit there and say stupid things like "Roethlisberger is way better than Manning" "Manning wouldn't fit in to the Steelers system". Thank god none of you are running an NFL team, you'd be worse than the Browns management that you bash on.

What is so stupid about what I said? I honestly do not think Manning would perform like he does now if he was with Pittsburgh. Its not rocket science. Pittsburgh is more of a running team and their O-line is average, if you can even call if that. They also play outdoors.

Manning fits perfectly in Indy, I just don't think he would fare as well if he was in Pittsburgh. I'm not knocking him at all...I think hes the man.

You do realize that Peyton has played behind some TERRIBLE olines right? He's got such a quick release that it doesn't seem that way because the ball is out of his hands before the defense gets to him..

You Pittsburgh fans are sticking up for your boy, that's all. If you ask any GM if they'd rather have Ben or Peyton, 32 would say Peyton. Yes, I'm including Pittsburgh.

If Peyton was a Steeler, you guys would be throbbing him too.

Peyton wasn't drafted into a good situation like Big Ben was. Big Ben rode some terrific defenses to the Super Bowl titles. He did have a great drive to win his last one, but so did Eli Manning.

Also, Big Ben couldn't get his team to the playoffs this year with a shaky defense and no running game. Peyton has been leading his team to the playoffs every year with basically the same issue.

gut wrote:

HighRoller74 wrote: So you guys really think Ben Roethlisberger is really a better QB overall than Peyton Manning?

Or are you just basing that off the playoffs?

He is the better playoff QB, and well, that's what really matters.

Big Ben's missed the playoffs more times in the last four years than Peyton has in the last eleven. That's what really matters.

DeyDurkie5 wrote:

Al Capone wrote: Anybody that calls Ben an average qb doesn't know football. He's easily in the top 5 in the league.

Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Schaub, Rivers, Brees

Schaub and Rivers need to get over their choke-artist reputation first before being top-five. Rivers can't win against good teams in the playoffs and Schaub implodes far too often against upper-tier teams (if every team on Houston's schedule got permission to wear Indy uniforms in the second half, the Texans would finish 0-16 every year because he'd fall apart).

I'd put Rodgers at a tiny step below Ben, as both are very good and have put up strong numbers without a particularly good running game recently, but Ben's been good longer and has playoff success. Rodgers needs to have that huge showing in a big game win to move past Ben.

Peyton's a far superior regular season quarterback overall, but you have to take into consideration his overall inferior postseason performance. People rag on Ben's first SB performance, but he was arguably the biggest reason they got there (and for more reasons than just making that shoestring tackle against the Colts). And he was very strong throughout last year's run. Under Manning, well, Indy improved to 1-3 this year as far as their initial-game record with a first round bye goes. In the AFC, I'd put them second to San Diego goes in the "Who will choke the worst?" sweepstakes over the past few years.

Brady...much as I hate it due to wishing the Patriots would get sucked into the earth, I'd definitely put him above and beyond. He was doing great with Troy Brown being his top guy. Deion Branch was a stud there...and has fallen off the radar. Being a receiver for the Patriots with Brady as QB is like being an LB for the Steelers with LeBeau your DC...how the hell did he fall like he did in the draft?

This season was a fluke that the Steelers missed the playoffs. If Ben continues to play at this level they'll be in the playoffs a lot and contend for several for more titles.

Yes, Manning has all the stats but here he is going on 34 and he's won one Super Bowl and is 9-9 in the playoffs.

Ben, on the otherhand is going to be 28, and he's already won two Super Bowls and is 8-2 in the playoffs.

Advantage Big Ben.

Non wrote: This season was a fluke that the Steelers missed the playoffs. If Ben continues to play at this level they'll be in the playoffs a lot and contend for several for more titles.

Yes, Manning has all the stats but here he is going on 34 and he's won one Super Bowl and is 9-9 in the playoffs.

Ben, on the otherhand is going to be 28, and he's already won two Super Bowls and is 8-2 in the playoffs.

Advantage Big Ben.

lol what?

wow.

So you're also saying you'd take Big Ben over Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Steve Young, among others?

Does this also mean you think Tom Brady is better than Big Ben?

I think another poster hit the nail on the head. Big Ben has missed the playoffs more times in these last 4 years than Peyton has in the last 11.

^^^^^

yeah but you see this year was a fluke. he didn't mean it

Ben is now a QB that can pass for 4,000 yards. And he already was a great quarterback with his athleticism. He already was equal to anybody else in the game at performing late in games and leading fourth-quarter comebacks. He already had the toughness and intangibles you want in a franchise QB.

Manning is better at the first category, throwing for a lot of yards and stats, but Ben has closed the gap there and is nearly equal now. Ben is way more capable of using his athleticism to make a big play when it's needed. He's better or equal to in being clutch and the intangibles. All-around I think it's much closer than people realize.

LTrain23 wrote:

Non wrote: This season was a fluke that the Steelers missed the playoffs. If Ben continues to play at this level they'll be in the playoffs a lot and contend for several for more titles.

Yes, Manning has all the stats but here he is going on 34 and he's won one Super Bowl and is 9-9 in the playoffs.

Ben, on the otherhand is going to be 28, and he's already won two Super Bowls and is 8-2 in the playoffs.

Advantage Big Ben.

lol what?

wow.

So you're also saying you'd take Big Ben over Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Steve Young, among others?

Does this also mean you think Tom Brady is better than Big Ben?

I think another poster hit the nail on the head. Big Ben has missed the playoffs more times in these last 4 years than Peyton has in the last 11.

Big deal. All those playoff appearances add up to one win and a bunch of disappointing losses.

I'd rather win more Super Bowls than make the playoffs and choke a bunch of times.

The Steelers have been competitive even in the years they've missed the playoffs. It's come down to a game or two, which is the nature of the NFL.

Manning didn't carry the Colts on his back this season like the media would have you believe.

He put up stats like Rivers, Schaub, Roethlisberger, Brees, etc.

The Colts had 7-8 games decided late and a few were Manning, a few were the defense getting a turnover or some lucky break.

That was more of a team effort than what you may think.

Ben was in a similar situation this season but the Steelers as a team didn't make a few plays or get the lucky breaks.

Next season that may happen and they'll go from 9-7 to 12-4 or something.

This thread was originally meant in a joking manner, by Walt, as he pointed out earlier.

If you read some of my other posts you'll understand my views. I'm not going to keep posting the same responses to everybody that comes on and says "you're crazy." lol

I'd still rank Manning No. 1 as QBs.

But Roethlisberger I think he is underrated outside of Steelers fans. I think he's improved to the point where he's one of he best all-around QBs in the NFL. I think he's in the discussion with the other top guys below Manning. He's only 28 and has been to the playoffs four times in six years, won two Super Bowls, is 8-2 in the playoffs, and all those things are important for a QB. Whether you have the pieces or not, the goal is to take that and win by whatever means necessary. He's done that so far. Now I believe with his statistical performance this season he's taken his game to another level and is better than he's ever been, which could bode well for the next 4-5 years. Let's say he puts together three Pro Bowl years in the next five and wins two more Super Bowls. Four Super Bowls overall. That would be a heck of a career.

LTrain23 wrote: Peyton wasn't drafted into a good situation like Big Ben was. Big Ben rode some terrific defenses to the Super Bowl titles. He did have a great drive to win his last one, but so did Eli Manning.

What ignorance! The Steelers made it to Super Bowl XL on Ben's arm and the Steelers win Super Bowl XLIII because of Ben's play.

You moronic haters need to take your orange and shit stained glasses off!