iclfan2 wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote: if you can't get the big boys to take up space and eat blockers, then you won't succeed defensively in a 34.

Suh is the most obvious choice, but there's no use in trading up for him when there's so much talent still left after him.

You contradict yourself. If having big boys to take up space on the D-line is of upmost importance (which I agree) then Suh is not the choice whatsoever. He would be wasted as a "big man eating up blockers" and as a DE in a 3-4. Even if we went to a 4-3, trading up in this draft when we will have a top 10, maybe even 5 pick, would be useless. There will still be talent left in the draft.

devil1197 wrote:

pkebker wrote: I think the salary cap being gone is a terrible idea for the NFL...

I agree, but if you have the money then you might as well spend it. The NBA has a salary cap but the great teams like LA, Cavs etc. continually go over the cap and pay the luxury tax. Having a cap means little to the big teams who have owners that will pay the money.

But having no salary cap won't help Cleveland at all. They are still going to have to one up the better teams to even get interest. Unless the new HC is well liked by the NFL players.

DaBrowns41 wrote:

iclfan2 wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote: if you can't get the big boys to take up space and eat blockers, then you won't succeed defensively in a 34.

Suh is the most obvious choice, but there's no use in trading up for him when there's so much talent still left after him.

You contradict yourself. If having big boys to take up space on the D-line is of upmost importance (which I agree) then Suh is not the choice whatsoever. He would be wasted as a "big man eating up blockers" and as a DE in a 3-4. Even if we went to a 4-3, trading up in this draft when we will have a top 10, maybe even 5 pick, would be useless. There will still be talent left in the draft.

Oh, so you're telling me now that he doesn't get double teamed nearly every play?

Oh, he does?

Ok, I rest my case.

Suh is the ideal candidate for a 34 DE, followed closely by Gerald McCoy.

Both of these guys demand double teams because of their ability to penetrate, while both are also great laterally. Both are very strong, and can stop the run.

iclfan2 wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote:

iclfan2 wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote: if you can't get the big boys to take up space and eat blockers, then you won't succeed defensively in a 34.

Suh is the most obvious choice, but there's no use in trading up for him when there's so much talent still left after him.

You contradict yourself. If having big boys to take up space on the D-line is of upmost importance (which I agree) then Suh is not the choice whatsoever. He would be wasted as a "big man eating up blockers" and as a DE in a 3-4. Even if we went to a 4-3, trading up in this draft when we will have a top 10, maybe even 5 pick, would be useless. There will still be talent left in the draft.

Oh, so you're telling me now that he doesn't get double teamed nearly every play?

Oh, he does?

Ok, I rest my case.

Suh is the ideal candidate for a 34 DE, followed closely by Gerald McCoy.

Both of these guys demand double teams because of their ability to penetrate, while both are also great laterally. Both are very strong, and can stop the run.

I agree with your points on Suh. I just think for Cleveland we have bigger needs. I meant that there are other people to take up space in the draft that would come cheaper than Suh. He is an ideal candidate for a 3-4 DE on a team that only needs a DE. I think our secondary is hurting more than our D-line. JMO.

devil1197 wrote: So then your example for a good pick up is also worthless, just like your posting.

Why will it change the FA market dramatically? Cleveland is still going to have to overpay the FA to come here because it isn't a great place to play right now. If the Patriots and Browns are offering the same guy 4 mil, who will he go to. A team that is proven to put you into the playoffs almost every year with a shot at the title or a team that is used to 3-5 win seasons? Cleveland is automatically going to have to tack on money just to even get the interest of the player, until proven otherwise Cleveland still has terrible luck in the FA market, and Cleveland is not appealing to come to outside of now having Holmgren in the FO. So yes the salary cap may be gone but that doesn't change the fact that Cleveland will be overpaying talent that have a track record of producing shit.

Please, continue to act like you know everything. You have been wrong with about 50+ of your 73 posts. There hypocritical and flat out stupid.

iclfan2 wrote: B Mac is terrible. Elam and Furrey aren't really that talented safeties either. I would say Eric Wright and Pool are the only two (with a slight chance for Adams) to play on another team. They played awesome in the Steelers game because by actually covering receivers well it allowed the linebackers and DE's time to get in the backfield. I would also argue that our outside linebackers are as important as our DE's in a 3-4. I think we are arguing semantics here. If you have a good Dline you can cover better, however if you cover better you have a better chance of getting sacks. Additionally, if you have good outside LB's you can have worse DE's. Or you can have worse OLB's and better DE's.

iclfan2 wrote: B Mac is terrible. Elam and Furrey aren't really that talented safeties either. I would say Eric Wright and Pool are the only two (with a slight chance for Adams) to play on another team. They played awesome in the Steelers game because by actually covering receivers well it allowed the linebackers and DE's time to get in the backfield. I would also argue that our outside linebackers are as important as our DE's in a 3-4. I think we are arguing semantics here. If you have a good Dline you can cover better, however if you cover better you have a better chance of getting sacks. Additionally, if you have good outside LB's you can have worse DE's. Or you can have worse OLB's and better DE's.

pkebker wrote:

iclfan2 wrote: B Mac is terrible. Elam and Furrey aren't really that talented safeties either. I would say Eric Wright and Pool are the only two (with a slight chance for Adams) to play on another team. They played awesome in the Steelers game because by actually covering receivers well it allowed the linebackers and DE's time to get in the backfield. I would also argue that our outside linebackers are as important as our DE's in a 3-4. I think we are arguing semantics here. If you have a good Dline you can cover better, however if you cover better you have a better chance of getting sacks. Additionally, if you have good outside LB's you can have worse DE's. Or you can have worse OLB's and better DE's.

Brodney Pool isn't that good either...he's been benched multiple times this season...

DaBrowns41 wrote:

iclfan2 wrote: B Mac is terrible. Elam and Furrey aren't really that talented safeties either. I would say Eric Wright and Pool are the only two (with a slight chance for Adams) to play on another team. They played awesome in the Steelers game because by actually covering receivers well it allowed the linebackers and DE's time to get in the backfield. I would also argue that our outside linebackers are as important as our DE's in a 3-4. I think we are arguing semantics here. If you have a good Dline you can cover better, however if you cover better you have a better chance of getting sacks. Additionally, if you have good outside LB's you can have worse DE's. Or you can have worse OLB's and better DE's.

I'm not saying that they aren't horrible, and certainly playing a WR at S isn't helping, but it doesn't matter who's back their if you can't stop the run, and can't get pressure on the QB.

With the 34, you build from the trenches.

Outside linebackers in a 34 can't get to the QB if the DL isn't doing their job and taking up space.

The defensive line in the 34 is the most crucial part of the defense.

The Patriots, Ravens, Cowboys, Steelers and Chargers have the best 34 defenses and they all have Pro-Bowl defensive lineman, or at least defensive lineman that are VERY talented.

The Browns, 49ers, and some of the newer teams to run the 34 that don't succeed are struggling because they have no NT, and no DL.

Writerbuckeye wrote: The Browns actually have two fairly effective nose tackles right now. Amazing as that is. Their problem isn't a defensive line, it's linebackers (specifically a middle linebacker who isn't undersized) and at least one lockdown corner.

pkebker wrote: The Browns have a very effective NT for the 3/4 in Rogers

Sonofanump wrote:

pkebker wrote: The Browns have a very effective NT for the 3/4 in Rogers

Every other play they do, he takes more time off than anyone.

pkebker wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote:

iclfan2 wrote: B Mac is terrible. Elam and Furrey aren't really that talented safeties either. I would say Eric Wright and Pool are the only two (with a slight chance for Adams) to play on another team. They played awesome in the Steelers game because by actually covering receivers well it allowed the linebackers and DE's time to get in the backfield. I would also argue that our outside linebackers are as important as our DE's in a 3-4. I think we are arguing semantics here. If you have a good Dline you can cover better, however if you cover better you have a better chance of getting sacks. Additionally, if you have good outside LB's you can have worse DE's. Or you can have worse OLB's and better DE's.

I'm not saying that they aren't horrible, and certainly playing a WR at S isn't helping, but it doesn't matter who's back their if you can't stop the run, and can't get pressure on the QB.

With the 34, you build from the trenches.

Outside linebackers in a 34 can't get to the QB if the DL isn't doing their job and taking up space.

The defensive line in the 34 is the most crucial part of the defense.

The Patriots, Ravens, Cowboys, Steelers and Chargers have the best 34 defenses and they all have Pro-Bowl defensive lineman, or at least defensive lineman that are VERY talented.

The Browns, 49ers, and some of the newer teams to run the 34 that don't succeed are struggling because they have no NT, and no DL.

The Browns have a very effective NT for the 3/4 in Rogers

iclfan2 wrote: Dl needs help? Yes. DL biggest problem with defense? I disagree, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.