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Cleveland Browns Draft Talk 2010

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jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

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10,664 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:33 PM
Why do the Browns need a DT (Suh)? They have Shaun Rogers. There are other more pressing needs
Dec 22, 2009 10:33pm
I

icskins

Senior Member

174 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:36 PM
Mulva wrote:
icskins wrote:

So you don't think any of the RB's are good? I didn't say great, but good. Who would you take then? None of the RB's in the draft are worthy of a top 5 pick in my opinion. Also, even if you had Adrian Peterson back there, with no blocking on the right side and no pass game, how good would he do?
No I don't. See my last post.

Harrison definitely has a niche. He's a good change of pace, 3rd down style back. I DON'T think he's a good every down back. Jennings shouldn't even be in the NFL honestly. And who knows about Davis. He could be some day. At this point there's no way to say he is though.

And there are 7 rounds in the NFL draft. I never said to take a running back with the 1st pick. That would be a terrible move.

And Adrian Peterson would do an awful lot more to open up a passing game, than anyone the Browns have so it's hard to say.
Ok, my bad. I was reading it as you would use the 1st pick on a RB. I can agree that if someone is there as a steal later then take them. I also think this is a weak RB draft though.
Dec 22, 2009 10:36pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

Senior Member

35,632 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:37 PM
devil1197 wrote:
SportsAndLady wrote:
devil1197 wrote:
SportsAndLady wrote: 9 carries is enough for you to form an opinion of him?
No its not but we are looking at it from the opposite end. You never want to hang success on a rookie who has been on the IR all year long that was picked in the late rounds of the NFL draft. I like Davis but he hasn't shown me anything that says don't take a solid RB with the 4th pick.
Then why aren't any of you saying the same thing about the wide receiver position?

I mean do you really want to hang your season on the hands of Massaquoi (2nd year, 30 receptions), Robiskie (2nd year, 5 receptions), Mike Furrey (part time safety--lol--, 23 receptions), Josh cribbs (20 receptions), and Chansi Stuckey (awful, 18 receptions)?
You cannot draft ever position, like we have stated Cleveland has needs at every position. I am going to wait and see if our SECOND ROUND selections at WR play good next year with constant playing time. On the other hand I will not wait on a 6th round pick coming off the IR or an undrafted guy picked up by the Browns. Plus, I think these WR's are good (MMass/Robo) but Cleveland obviously is lacking a quality QB right now. I am not saying Quinn won't turn into one but he isn't playing like one.

How is it their priority if they are picking one up with their 4th or 5th pick??? Its not like they are going to take one in the 1st or 2nd round. Guys like Gerhart or Blount are being projected as 3+ round selections.

Unless the Browns blow it, Suh won't be an option. We are looking at 3rd+ pick in the 1st round.
In my opinion, you can be a good offensive team without a good running back..but you CAN'T be a good offensive team without any good WRs. Unless you got Tom Brady throwing (like he proved in the Troy Brown days), you need good WRs.

A good RB is for the most part all attributed to O-line play, unless you have Adrian Peterson back there...which we don't. So thats why I say Harrison, Jenkins, and Davis will be suitable back there if we improve the right side of the line (they'd be a top 5 O-line team if they do this) and improve our receivers. We fix that right side of the line, those 3 will be able to find those gaping holes...however, we don't upgrade these receivers, they won't be open, Quinn will struggle again, and the D will be able to shut down our running game.

Obviously you disagree, which is fine, just the way I see it.
Dec 22, 2009 10:37pm
D

DaBrowns41

Senior Member

1,304 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:38 PM
jordo212000 wrote: They need a QB. Not saying the should burn another #1. Until they get a legit one, they won't be good.
You have to have play makers to help a QB, and we have zero on offense.

Since 1998 every QB drafted in the first round that has been successful had at least 2 play makers on offense. All of the first round busts except for no more than 2 had 1 play maker or less.

You can't draft a QB and expect him to be good without help. He needs at least an average offensive line, a WR and a TE, a TE and a RB, or a RB and a WR that are very, very good.

Quinn can't be expected to take this team anywhere until we find a WR that will go up and get the ball, we can't do anything. Mo Mass needs to get physical as a WR, and he needs to actually try to catch the ball and learn how to run routes.

We need a consistent RB that knows how to get yardage. And we need a TE that can catch consistently.
Dec 22, 2009 10:38pm
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

Senior Member

13,650 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:39 PM
SportsAndLady wrote:
Once again, I'm not arguing how good or bad our running backs are..just simply that shouldn't be their priority this off season.

And I disagree about the RBs in this yaer's draft...I think this is the worst running backs draft I've seen in a while.
I don't think that should be priority number 1 either. I would go defense with the first 2-3 picks at least. But we are guaranteed 4 picks in the 1st 3 rounds, with the chance to trade up for an additional couple.

I don't think there are any studs necessarily, but I think there are several guys projected to go from rounds 2-4 who would be solid and an instant upgrade over anyone the Browns currently have (Dwyer, Dixon, Hardesty, Mathews if he comes out). Even Blount. If you can get Legarrette Blount with one of your picks in the 6th round you have to jump all over that opportunity in my opinion. The guy has potential 1st round talent. Of course, he isn't a "Mangini" player.

And for the receivers thing... I wouldn't mind taking a receiver in the 3rd round instead of a running back either. If a guy like Decker or Danario Alexander are available I wouldn't hate on that pick at all.

Like I said in my first post, this team needs upgrades at just about EVERY position. I don't see it being a 1 year fix.
Dec 22, 2009 10:39pm
D

DaBrowns41

Senior Member

1,304 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:41 PM
jordo212000 wrote: Why do the Browns need a DT (Suh)? They have Shaun Rogers. There are other more pressing needs
In the 34 defense, the 3 man front of the line is the most important piece of the puzzle. If those guys don't take up space, and penetrate in the backfield, then the linebackers can't do their job and get pressure and make tackles, and the secondary is left covering WR's for 6-9 seconds.

Suh is an ideal 34 DE candidate. Shaun Rogers at NT, with Suh at DE would be amazing, think New England's DL in their prime with Wilfork @ NT (Rogers is better) and one of the best 34 DE's to ever play Richard Seymour.

Our biggest problem is stopping the run, and he would be a HUGE asset to this defense.

Not to mention, you don't pass on talent like him.
Dec 22, 2009 10:41pm
D

devil1197

Senior Member

6,220 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:41 PM
Sorry, in our division you need two things. A solid defense and a good running game. Every team that has been successful in the AFC North has had good defenses and a tough running game.
Dec 22, 2009 10:41pm
S

Sonofanump

Dec 22, 2009 10:41 PM
DaBrowns41 wrote: And we need a TE that can catch consistently.
I am not sure what to make of Moore. He is more like a flex TE, he catches everything. He blocks ok for his size.
Dec 22, 2009 10:41pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

Senior Member

35,632 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:42 PM
Just to give an example of why I think WRs are more important than a RB, I give you Brett Favre.

Last year with the Jets, they had a good RB, but horrible wide receivers. He does fine for 8 games, then is just completely awful. Then he goes to the Vikings, and has VERY good WRs and he is having one of the best seasons of any QB this year.
Dec 22, 2009 10:42pm
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

Senior Member

10,664 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:43 PM
DaBrowns41 wrote:

You have to have play makers to help a QB, and we have zero on offense.

Since 1998 every QB drafted in the first round that has been successful had at least 2 play makers on offense. All of the first round busts except for no more than 2 had 1 play maker or less.

You can't draft a QB and expect him to be good without help. He needs at least an average offensive line, a WR and a TE, a TE and a RB, or a RB and a WR that are very, very good.

Quinn can't be expected to take this team anywhere until we find a WR that will go up and get the ball, we can't do anything. Mo Mass needs to get physical as a WR, and he needs to actually try to catch the ball and learn how to run routes.

We need a consistent RB that knows how to get yardage. And we need a TE that can catch consistently.
Glad I'm not a Browns fan, and glad you're not the GM of my team. Good luck with Brady Quinn
Dec 22, 2009 10:43pm
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

Senior Member

10,664 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:44 PM
devil1197 wrote: Sorry, in our division you need two things. A solid defense and a good running game. Every team that has been successful in the AFC North has had good defenses and a tough running game.
3 things actually. A solid QB
Dec 22, 2009 10:44pm
D

devil1197

Senior Member

6,220 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:45 PM
SportsAndLady wrote: Just to give an example of why I think WRs are more important than a RB, I give you Brett Favre.

Last year with the Jets, they had a good RB, but horrible wide receivers. He does fine for 8 games, then is just completely awful. Then he goes to the Vikings, and has VERY good WRs and he is having one of the best seasons of any QB this year.
Uhhh, Farve was great because he was healthy. He got hurt last year lol what did you expect to happen to his play after he was injured.
Dec 22, 2009 10:45pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

Senior Member

35,632 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:45 PM
devil1197 wrote: Sorry, in our division you need two things. A solid defense and a good running game. Every team that has been successful in the AFC North has had good defenses and a tough running game.
Obviously you're missing what I'm saying--you have a good passing game, and your running game improves. You're not saying you need a good defense and good running back, you're saying a good running game. You need a consistent passing attack to have any chance of running the ball.
Dec 22, 2009 10:45pm
D

DaBrowns41

Senior Member

1,304 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:45 PM
Mulva wrote:
SportsAndLady wrote:
Once again, I'm not arguing how good or bad our running backs are..just simply that shouldn't be their priority this off season.

And I disagree about the RBs in this yaer's draft...I think this is the worst running backs draft I've seen in a while.
I don't think that should be priority number 1 either. I would go defense with the first 2-3 picks at least. But we are guaranteed 4 picks in the 1st 3 rounds, with the chance to trade up for an additional couple.

I don't think there are any studs necessarily, but I think there are several guys projected to go from rounds 2-4 who would be solid and an instant upgrade over anyone the Browns currently have (Dwyer, Dixon, Hardesty, Mathews if he comes out). Even Blount. If you can get Legarrette Blount with one of your picks in the 6th round you have to jump all over that opportunity in my opinion. The guy has potential 1st round talent. Of course, he isn't a "Mangini" player.

And for the receivers thing... I wouldn't mind taking a receiver in the 3rd round instead of a running back either. If a guy like Decker or Danario Alexander are available I wouldn't hate on that pick at all.

Like I said in my first post, this team needs upgrades at just about EVERY position. I don't see it being a 1 year fix.
I think you and I are in agreement with what we need to do in the draft. While we are weak on both sides of the ball, we are worse overall talent wise on defense and with the blue chip prospects in this draft defensively, we'd be fools not to use our first 2 rounds on defense.

Yes, the RB's aren't great, but they aren't bad either, and a guy in particular that I'd love for us to target is Anthony Dixon in the 3rd round. He's a big RB that can block, and catch the ball.

Because of how deep this draft class is, we're going to get 3rd round talent in the 4th and 5th. It's a good year to have 11 picks.
Dec 22, 2009 10:45pm
D

devil1197

Senior Member

6,220 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:46 PM
jordo212000 wrote:
devil1197 wrote: Sorry, in our division you need two things. A solid defense and a good running game. Every team that has been successful in the AFC North has had good defenses and a tough running game.
3 things actually. A solid QB
Well yeah every team in the NFL needs a solid QB. But for the AFC North the good teams will always have good ground games (Benson, Parker in the past, Lewis for the Ravens etc.) Of course the defense of the Steelers and Ravens being basically 1-2 for awhile and the Bengals defense is upgraded this season.
Dec 22, 2009 10:46pm
D

DaBrowns41

Senior Member

1,304 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:47 PM
Sonofanump wrote:
DaBrowns41 wrote: And we need a TE that can catch consistently.
I am not sure what to make of Moore. He is more like a flex TE, he catches everything. He blocks ok for his size.
He's been catching everything, and I do love it. However, I want to make sure we can get a TE that can be consistent. We'll find out in the coming weeks if he's our guy.
Dec 22, 2009 10:47pm
D

DaBrowns41

Senior Member

1,304 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:48 PM
jordo212000 wrote:
DaBrowns41 wrote:

You have to have play makers to help a QB, and we have zero on offense.

Since 1998 every QB drafted in the first round that has been successful had at least 2 play makers on offense. All of the first round busts except for no more than 2 had 1 play maker or less.

You can't draft a QB and expect him to be good without help. He needs at least an average offensive line, a WR and a TE, a TE and a RB, or a RB and a WR that are very, very good.

Quinn can't be expected to take this team anywhere until we find a WR that will go up and get the ball, we can't do anything. Mo Mass needs to get physical as a WR, and he needs to actually try to catch the ball and learn how to run routes.

We need a consistent RB that knows how to get yardage. And we need a TE that can catch consistently.
Glad I'm not a Browns fan, and glad you're not the GM of my team. Good luck with Brady Quinn
Thanks for bringing logical discussion to post in here.

If you're not going to discuss football, then get out of this thread. It's clear you have nothing to add to the conversation.
Dec 22, 2009 10:48pm
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

Senior Member

10,664 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:48 PM
devil1197 wrote:
Well yeah every team in the NFL needs a solid QB. But for the AFC North the good teams will always have good ground games (Benson, Parker in the past, Lewis for the Ravens etc.) Of course the defense of the Steelers and Ravens being basically 1-2 for awhile and the Bengals defense is upgraded this season.
Like others have said already, you really won't run the ball well until you can threaten somebody by throwing the ball and throwing it downfield. Otherwise they will put lots of guys in the box and move the DBs closer to WRs
Dec 22, 2009 10:48pm
D

DaBrowns41

Senior Member

1,304 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:49 PM
jordo212000 wrote:
devil1197 wrote:
Well yeah every team in the NFL needs a solid QB. But for the AFC North the good teams will always have good ground games (Benson, Parker in the past, Lewis for the Ravens etc.) Of course the defense of the Steelers and Ravens being basically 1-2 for awhile and the Bengals defense is upgraded this season.
Like others have said already, you really won't run the ball well until you can threaten somebody by throwing the ball and throwing it downfield. Otherwise they will put lots of guys in the box and move the DBs closer to WRs
You can't throw the ball without WR's or a TE, or an offensive line that can keep you off your feet.

It's called common sense.
Dec 22, 2009 10:49pm
D

devil1197

Senior Member

6,220 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:50 PM
jordo212000 wrote:
devil1197 wrote:
Well yeah every team in the NFL needs a solid QB. But for the AFC North the good teams will always have good ground games (Benson, Parker in the past, Lewis for the Ravens etc.) Of course the defense of the Steelers and Ravens being basically 1-2 for awhile and the Bengals defense is upgraded this season.
Like others have said already, you really won't run the ball well until you can threaten somebody by throwing the ball and throwing it downfield. Otherwise they will put lots of guys in the box and move the DBs closer to WRs
Yes, I know that but in this draft their isn't a QB imo worth taking that will come in and do a better job right now with what we have. Improve the defense to a point where they will keep the offense in the game no matter who you play. Go the first two rounds strictly defense, pick up a new RB/WR in the mid rounds depending upon who is available, and shore up the line via free agency.
Dec 22, 2009 10:50pm
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

Senior Member

10,664 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:52 PM
DaBrowns41 wrote:
Thanks for bringing logical discussion to post in here.

If you're not going to discuss football, then get out of this thread. It's clear you have nothing to add to the conversation.
Quinn completes less than 54% of his passes, has never had a rating higher than 68, and has never thrown more than 8 TDs in a season. But yeah he's not part of the problem.
Dec 22, 2009 10:52pm
B

BCSbunk

Senior Member

972 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:54 PM
DaBrowns41 wrote:
devil1197 wrote: Season is winding down and Cleveland's 1st round position hasn't been decided yet.

These are their picks right now. What positions do you go with for these picks? Who would you want to take?

1: Berry or McClain. Both are very intelligent and would be starters.
2: Depends on 1st round pick. Either DB/LB
3: OL
3: RB/Defense
4: DB/QB (need to pick up a QB in the draft but not wasting 1-3 round picks. Anderson will be gone imo along with Ratliff if Mangini is canned).
5,5,5
6,6
7

Then I think Cleveland needs to package the later round picks together and move up into the 2nd-3rd round. It's very possible with the amount of selections they have especially the 5th round.
Suh is the priority, first and foremost.

If we can't get Suh, we go for Gerald McCoy, Eric Berry, Rolando McClain, Joe Haden, Derrick Morgan, Jerry Hughes, in that order.

We do NOT go offense in the first round, I don't care how good Spiller looks.

This defense gives up 30+ points to some of the worst teams in the league. Yes, we have injury problems, and yes, we're very young, but we also are lacking a LOT of talent on both sides of the ball, but defensively especially.

2nd round, I would prefer to go defense as well. This draft is LOADED with defensive talent, and there are a lot of kids coming out this year because of the CBA potentially not getting done.

Check out my blog for more Browns draft information. I'll be updating information in it weekly, and coming up with big boards, and what not.
No to McCoy. He is NOT a 3-4 guy bad bad selection for the Browns if they decide to go that way unless they are going to a 4-3.

Berry or Haden who you can trade down for. Suh would be the first choice but he will be gone.
Dec 22, 2009 10:54pm
D

DaBrowns41

Senior Member

1,304 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:54 PM
jordo212000 wrote:
DaBrowns41 wrote:
Thanks for bringing logical discussion to post in here.

If you're not going to discuss football, then get out of this thread. It's clear you have nothing to add to the conversation.
Quinn completes less than 54% of his passes, has never had a rating higher than 68, and has never thrown more than 8 TDs in a season. But yeah he's not part of the problem.
Wow, good thing this is only his first season starting then.

In Manning's first 16 games, he threw for a 56% CP and 28 INT's.

The Colt's should have just given up on him, right?

I'm not saying Brady is Manning, AT ALL. But point is, any idiot knows that you can't judge NFL talent on one season. Quinn doesn't even have a season's worth of starts.
Dec 22, 2009 10:54pm
D

devil1197

Senior Member

6,220 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:55 PM
jordo212000 wrote:
DaBrowns41 wrote:
Thanks for bringing logical discussion to post in here.

If you're not going to discuss football, then get out of this thread. It's clear you have nothing to add to the conversation.
Quinn completes less than 54% of his passes, has never had a rating higher than 68, and has never thrown more than 8 TDs in a season. But yeah he's not part of the problem.
So you want to select a QB in the first two rounds once again going through seasons with young, inexperienced QB play with no solid defense behind him?

Keep Quinn and bring in a veteran QB via FA. Create a defense first, give Quinn another year as he still has not had a full year of NFL play, and if he fails then you already have a solid defense to hold the team down while you bring in a rookie in the 2011 draft.
Dec 22, 2009 10:55pm
D

DaBrowns41

Senior Member

1,304 posts
Dec 22, 2009 10:56 PM
BCSbunk wrote:
DaBrowns41 wrote:
devil1197 wrote: Season is winding down and Cleveland's 1st round position hasn't been decided yet.

These are their picks right now. What positions do you go with for these picks? Who would you want to take?

1: Berry or McClain. Both are very intelligent and would be starters.
2: Depends on 1st round pick. Either DB/LB
3: OL
3: RB/Defense
4: DB/QB (need to pick up a QB in the draft but not wasting 1-3 round picks. Anderson will be gone imo along with Ratliff if Mangini is canned).
5,5,5
6,6
7

Then I think Cleveland needs to package the later round picks together and move up into the 2nd-3rd round. It's very possible with the amount of selections they have especially the 5th round.
Suh is the priority, first and foremost.

If we can't get Suh, we go for Gerald McCoy, Eric Berry, Rolando McClain, Joe Haden, Derrick Morgan, Jerry Hughes, in that order.

We do NOT go offense in the first round, I don't care how good Spiller looks.

This defense gives up 30+ points to some of the worst teams in the league. Yes, we have injury problems, and yes, we're very young, but we also are lacking a LOT of talent on both sides of the ball, but defensively especially.

2nd round, I would prefer to go defense as well. This draft is LOADED with defensive talent, and there are a lot of kids coming out this year because of the CBA potentially not getting done.

Check out my blog for more Browns draft information. I'll be updating information in it weekly, and coming up with big boards, and what not.
No to McCoy. He is NOT a 3-4 guy bad bad selection for the Browns if they decide to go that way unless they are going to a 4-3.

Berry or Haden who you can trade down for. Suh would be the first choice but he will be gone.
McCoy actually fits the Richard Seymour mold, just like Suh, but McCoy isn't as stout a run stuffer.

Both players project to play both 43 DT or 34 DE's very well.

Berry will be gone by pick 6-7, Haden will go around 9-13.

Berry is top 3 talent, but because he's a safety won't be drafted in the top 5 unless somebody really falls in love with him.
Dec 22, 2009 10:56pm