Lou Demas;1391143 wrote:he made a mistake you should be punished for it but I don't think he should be punished like that, this should have been an other way to take care of this

Lou....I usually have great respect for what you say.....sorry, not this time. Based on the severity of Alexander's actions as has been reported by many, I respectfully disagree. I know these message boards can be filled with inaccuracies from time to time. But when someone with Vince D's experience states, "I am not sure what else you can do to get ejected from a tournament but the kid did it all... except wrestle. Threaten officials, coaches and throw a major toddler hissy fit after he pins himself. I was sitting a mere six feet from the scorers table and heard it all." I realize that Vince D can be controversial at times, but I don't doubt his honesty.

Is the punishment severe? Yes, no doubt about it. But sometimes, the rules of the sport (and society) have to be upheld or they completely lose meaning. I would ask, based on the severity of the actions, what "other way do you think it should have been handled?"

I think Anthony is a great kid. I have set and talked with him a couple times. My nephews practice with him and look up to him as a great wrestler. You don't get that kind of respect unless your a pretty good person. That being said my brother and I grew up in a pretty rough neighborhood and if any of our kids were to act like what Anthony has supposedly acted like we would have escorted them out ourselves . I hope he learns and grow from this. My point is we all make mistakes, that how we learn. Its what we do with the knowledge that defines us. Good luck in the future Anthony, this is only one small mistake in a very long life.

Lou Demas, you obviously have close ties with Anthony and have information that others do not know. I had no idea he was underprivledged and I think that is sad. I do not think rules should be different for him, I do not think it is ok to put a Dublin kid down because they may or may not be underprivledged. I think that situation would have occured by ANY coach in that same match...It just happened to be a Dublin kid he was facing. Dublin coaches were not the only coaches having a heated debate with refs about that match. If he wrestled that match and won...He would be going for 3rd and another coach would be raising the same issue if it wasn't raised before. You are right, he would not have been arrest, I agree, however if the police was present by that mat, they would have assisted to restrain him and escort him out.

Dad4sports, trust me I get what your saying but I went to high school in this kind of environment and I know how hard it is for kids to break the cycle. When I was an instructor in the Marine corp some of of my students would screw up big time. What AI was supposed to do was formally right them up, this would have hurt there career as a Marine and also hurt them financially immediately . Some young Marines joined the Marine Corps because they already had a child back home and wife. so I wrote them, I hurt their career and their finances I'd also I hurt
their whole family. So there where times I punished these young Marines in an alternate method, sometimes it away I may have gotten in trouble myself. Trust me I know what Anthony did was wrong and punishment I would giving him, he would have wanted to kick to the tournament but he would be better off long term had we found a alternate way of dealing with this.
I just know how hard it is for a lot of city kids to get out of that environment. I believe one of our responsibilities coaches parents and referees is to help the children and take things on a case by case basis. Had Anthony had a history of doing this, I may have pulled him out of the tournament myself had I been his coach but this is the first time I've heard of him behaveing in this manner.
So, I get tough love I just want it to be administered in a manner that helps the child. I hope for Anthony sake this what happened, if not he will be an other statistic.

Go wrestle,

Rules should apply to everyone, however when dealing with children there should be more levity. In our adult penal system judges have guidelines and take things on a case by case basis.

Lou Demas;1391239 wrote: In our adult penal system judges have guidelines and take things on a case by case basis.

Meaning? How does this apply here? I'm not sure I follow?

Simple, judges sometimes give community service or they give jail time, it's at their discretion.

Bad situation for the kid but you HAVE to enforce the rules. Hopefully he can learn from this.
Any kid regardless of the sport is kicked out if they did that.
You threaten an official and drop F bombs, there is no gray area.

As a parent who tries to teach my kids right from wrong and to win with class and lose with dignity, I would have been upset had the kid been able to continue if I was there. That would be the wrong mssg to send.

Lou Demas;1391253 wrote:Simple, judges sometimes give community service or they give jail time, it's at their discretion.

The analogy is a bit skewed don't you think?

In other words and I don't know if the committee had any levy but the choices were to kick in Anthony out of tournament or find an alternate way of punishing him.

lou i respect you and your kids, Josh is one of the finest kids i have ever talked with. I could only guess how you would react if this was your son. that doesn't really matter i know your kids would not act like that. At least this is just a wrestling tournament. As long as he learns from this he can still be anything in life he chooses

I might be biased but I don't think my analogy is skewed. judges do this all the time community service/ jail time drug rehab/ go to prison.

A kid has an emotional outburst after losing a match, do we end his dreams ever becoming a state champion or state placer or do we find another way to punish him and teach him a lesson help him go for further along life.

VMgutrman,
The funny thing is,had any of my children ever behaved in that manner I would have pulled them out of tournament myself but then again I hold my kids go higher standard because I know how much they been given. I also truly hope Anthony does learn from this and realizes how fast something he truly loves can be taken away by one bad action on his part.

Lou Demas;1391261 wrote: A kid has an emotional outburst after losing a match, do we end his dreams ever becoming a state champion or state placer or do we find another way to punish him and teach him a lesson help him go for further along life.

He ended his dreams....no one else did....there comes a time when you just have to be accountable for your actions. If he was allowed to slide, it would send the completely wrong message, not only to him, but to all the young men who were there observing the situation. This is a huge lesson for the young man to learn. If he accepts it, it WILL help him go further in life.

should we get the switch out... come this is a no brainer its life you follow the rule life is a little easier you don't it gets harder.,. if we dont teach our kids to follow the rules cops, courts and jails will.

No different than not making weight.(its way worse IMO)
Are we going to now give a kid an extra half hr to make weight?????

Skin check...injuries...

Lou Demas;1391264 wrote:VMgutrman,
The funny thing is,had any of my children ever behaved in that manner I would have pulled them out of tournament myself but then again I hold my kids go higher standard because I know how much they been given. I also truly hope Anthony does learn from this and realizes how fast something he truly loves can be taken away by one bad action on his part.

We need more parents like you. Kudos on this post..

Shouldn't the bout sheet from the match in which he got pinned have shown the ejection from the tournament? If so then the go to match bout sheet wouldn't even have had Alexander's name on it. If the bout sheet was documented correctly I can't see how he even got to the table to check in for his go to match.

Lou Demas;1391261 wrote:I might be biased but I don't think my analogy is skewed. judges do this all the time community service/ jail time drug rehab/ go to prison.

A kid has an emotional outburst after losing a match, do we end his dreams ever becoming a state champion or state placer or do we find another way to punish him and teach him a lesson help him go for further along life.

You can't compare an elected officer of the court with a high-school sports ref, or this situation with those that come before judges. Regardless of how much we would like to think otherwise, the consequences at stake in any municipal court in the land on any day dwarf what went down at Marysville on Saturday.

What Alexander did was far, far worse than missing weight by 1 lb. If he had missed weight by 1 lb., would you argue that he should be allowed to wrestle anyhow?

Refs enforce rules. They don't break them, and we don't change them for kids in an effort to make up for a bad hand society has dealt them in other areas.

Where would it stop, Mr. Demas? "His dad beats him; I'll hit him the next time he stalls" "His mom's a drunk; so what if he jumps the whistle a bit." "He's wearing three-year-old wrestling shoes; so what if his foot slipped out of bounds when he covered for the takedown." "That kid drove here in a new Honda Civic; he can handle an extra headbutt from this one who took the bus."

Or,

"This kid is a really good wrestler and comes from a poor family, so instead of enforcing the rules, lets take some time to staff and gather an unbiased committee, interrupting all these other kids', families' and teams' tournament, to determine an alternate punishment for this young man."

Skill and background should not be factors in determining the punishment of a kid who threatens violence. I wonder, would Alexander's defenders argue for an alternate punishment if the kid who threatened the ref and coach was a 22-14 son of an attorney from New Albany?

Alexander blew his chance to place top five in state. That's it. He's not going to jail. He's not walking away from this with a record. There is no box on employment applications that says "Were you ever kicked out of a high school wrestling tournament" that he'll have to check.

Life goes on. Assuming he has the grades, college is an option. Losing a partial athletic scholarship, if one would have been offered, won't hurt. If he does truly come from a disadvantaged background, society will pay for him to go. If not, he'll do what all the middle-class kids do and get student loans. If he doesn't have the grades, then college wouldn't have worked out anyhow, regardless of who pays for it.

The time we all invest in this sport as coaches, parents and wrestlers gives us a warped sense of significance to all this stuff. The only thing Alexander threw away was a chance to go 2-2 at the state tournament in a couple weeks. Big deal. Let's not re-write the rules for that.

bump_and_run;1391321 wrote:You can't compare an elected officer of the court with a high-school sports ref, or this situation with those that come before judges. Regardless of how much we would like to think otherwise, the consequences at stake in any municipal court in the land on any day dwarf what went down at Marysville on Saturday.

What Alexander did was far, far worse than missing weight by 1 lb. If he had missed weight by 1 lb., would you argue that he should be allowed to wrestle anyhow?

Refs enforce rules. They don't break them, and we don't change them for kids in an effort to make up for a bad hand society has dealt them in other areas.

Where would it stop, Mr. Demas? "His dad beats him; I'll hit him the next time he stalls" "His mom's a drunk; so what if he jumps the whistle a bit." "He's wearing three-year-old wrestling shoes; so what if his foot slipped out of bounds when he covered for the takedown." "That kid drove here in a new Honda Civic; he can handle an extra headbutt from this one who took the bus."

Or,

"This kid is a really good wrestler and comes from a poor family, so instead of enforcing the rules, lets take some time to staff and gather an unbiased committee, interrupting all these other kids', families' and teams' tournament, to determine an alternate punishment for this young man."

Skill and background should not be factors in determining the punishment of a kid who threatens violence. I wonder, would Alexander's defenders argue for an alternate punishment if the kid who threatened the ref and coach was a 22-14 son of an attorney from New Albany?

Alexander blew his chance to place top five in state. That's it. He's not going to jail. He's not walking away from this with a record. There is no box on employment applications that says "Were you ever kicked out of a high school wrestling tournament" that he'll have to check.

Life goes on. Assuming he has the grades, college is an option. Losing a partial athletic scholarship, if one would have been offered, won't hurt. If he does truly come from a disadvantaged background, society will pay for him to go. If not, he'll do what all the middle-class kids do and get student loans. If he doesn't have the grades, then college wouldn't have worked out anyhow, regardless of who pays for it.

The time we all invest in this sport as coaches, parents and wrestlers gives us a warped sense of significance to all this stuff. The only thing Alexander threw away was a chance to go 2-2 at the state tournament in a couple weeks. Big deal. Let's not re-write the rules for that.

BINGO!! This post is dead on.

Refs enforce rules. They don't break them, and we don't change them for kids in an effort to make up for a bad hand society has dealt them in other areas.

Money quote!! The beauty of wrestling is it is the great equalizer. Rich kid- poor kid- city kid-country kid. Each of those kids have to get to that mat on their own merit. No one "owns" a weight class and even in Dublin they can't be bought (sorry, I couldn't resist) Once the kids get on the mat it is up to the refs to call the match by the rules made for everyone. How a coach handles the kid once back on school property is up to him. Alexander has had some bad shakes in life. But he has also had many coaches and mentors that have poured their lives into him. We don't control how we come into this world but we do have total control over how we respond to it. It is a life lesson we all have to learn no matter what station in life you start from.

FYI - for those who don't realize it....Alexander Anthony wrestled for Dublin Coffman before transferring to Northland. He works out regularly at the Dublin Rec Center and still runs around with kids on Coffman's team. He made a bad behavior choice... in this case I think it has little to do with where he lives.

Bauer;1391357 wrote:Money quote!! The beauty of wrestling is it is the great equalizer. Rich kid- poor kid- city kid-country kid. Each of those kids have to get to that mat on their own merit. No one "owns" a weight class and even in Dublin they can't be bought (sorry, I couldn't resist) Once the kids get on the mat it is up to the refs to call the match by the rules made for everyone. How a coach handles the kid once back on school property is up to him. Alexander has had some bad shakes in life. But he has also had many coaches and mentors that have poured their lives into him. We don't control how we come into this world but we do have total control over how we respond to it. It is a life lesson we all have to learn no matter what station in life you start from.

Lou Demas;1391261 wrote:
A kid has an emotional outburst after losing a match, do we end his dreams ever becoming a state champion or state placer or do we find another way to punish him and teach him a lesson help him go for further along life.

Kicking a chair is an "emotional outburst". Threatening officials is way over any line of acceptable behavior, and their action was the only correct choice.

wow so much has been said already on this subject. Here's our perspective on the whole thing. First of all I think Anthony's first mistake was to over look Mcdougle. he told Noah first thing that morning that he would see Noah the next three weeks in the finals. Drew wrestled a Great match and its sad to see that, that has all been forgotten. Congrats Drew on a great win!

However as a mom watching the whole thing go down, I thought if that was Noah....I would be in jail myself for child abuse. There is No way we would let Noah at like that and not get a beating from his parents. But Noah learned a long time ago to win and lose with grace.

I do have compassion for Anthony if he has a bad life, no parents to stand with him and encouraging him. We all know how tough this sport is and if your all alone in it, thats especially hard.I hope he doesn't let this situation define himself, but uses it as a turning point and works even harded to prove everyone wrong.

Gentleman we must live in 2 completely separate worlds,I live in the world I see rules enforced and also not enforced, depending on the circumstances and not just at municipal court level. I know teachers you choose not to suspend children who push each other even even though there school has a 0 tolerance policy on violence.So say your kid was just about to graduate had 2 weeks left before he did but he bumped into kid in school they don't like each other they push each other and threaten each other. now they have gone through 4 years of high school without ever having a problem but rules are rules of the principal says we have a 0 tolerance policy for violence your children will not be graduating with the class this year. sure it's not going to end their life, their life is going to go on, they are just not going to be able to graduate with their friends, you're not to be able to take pictures of them graduating, no big deal rules are rules!