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Marysville D1 Sectional

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H

HilliardDad

Senior Member

215 posts
Feb 18, 2013 11:34 AM
I understand someone who likes the kid not wanting him thrown out, and I was not there to see it, but the false equivalences here are stunning. The reports are that this kid had to be physically restrained, and threatened the referee. Do you really think that is the same as a bump in the hallway? Do you really think that a wrestler who does that should get a second chance? Plus, there is no "community service" in wrestling, what other punishment is there?
Feb 18, 2013 11:34am
L

Lou Demas

Member

87 posts
Feb 18, 2013 12:13 PM
So, add to my analogy the kids had to be physically pulled apart. now what, you still cancel a graduation? so you can tell me that you could sit down with your son tell him, son I know you worked really hard for 4 years to graduate I know you have not gotten in trouble this manner before and I know how stressful finals week can be but rules are rules you're not graduating. I just think the most parents would be sitting in the principal's office talking to the principal trying to find a better way to punish their children the so they can graduate and I believe this what happened at inner city school or a prep school.

and we are not a community service program but we are community wrestlers and we know how to handle wrestlers
Feb 18, 2013 12:13pm
L

Lou Demas

Member

87 posts
Feb 18, 2013 12:38 PM
Funny thing is is I became a wrestler because the coach bent the rules. I tried out the basketball team got in a fight with 2 other basketball players coach reach down and grab you by the scruff of my neck pick me up off my feet. Back then they had corporal punishment which meant they could beat you, so I thought the basketball coach was dragging me to the principal's office to get beaten then suspended send home to get beat again and get kicked off the team. Instead he took me to a room I never seen before open the door said to the coach ''I have 1 of yours do you have any of mine'' the coach sent 2 kids up to him and I became a wrestler that day! Times have change!
Feb 18, 2013 12:38pm
H

HilliardDad

Senior Member

215 posts
Feb 18, 2013 12:49 PM
So at what point would you eject a kid?
Feb 18, 2013 12:49pm
L

Lou Demas

Member

87 posts
Feb 18, 2013 1:55 PM
If I could not get my wrestler to acknowledge what he did was wrong and apologize to all parties involved including the fans I pulled him out myself. but if I have a kid and even if he's a kid from Dublin Jerome and he's never had an issue like this before in the freaks out of one tournament ,I'm going to have him apologize and try to find an appropriate punishment for the behavior. To my knowledge had this happen in season, he would have been kicked out of tournament not allowed to participate next tournament,that punishment would be appropriate. However, just like if your kids get kicked out of school right before they graduated,not acknowledging 4yrs of good behavior that should be taken into consideration. It's almost like if you get pulled over speeding ticket, 1 time you get a speeding ticket, they say it's going to be 150 dollars the next time they say we're sorry sir,you were speeding on Wednesday, so we will take your license away and fine you 400 dollars.
Feb 18, 2013 1:55pm
M

M5 Grappler

Member

41 posts
Feb 18, 2013 3:04 PM
Using alot GB on this one guys. Alexander's actions were dealt with by the rules that are in place. There was no conspiracy or otherwise
What Anthony did was inexcusable in any sport and the tournament was not going to be put on hold to debate options. Lets open this thread back up to how good of a sectional this was and move on. I'll start: Congrats to all qualifiers, and looking at District brackets I see quite a few from here headed to campus.
Feb 18, 2013 3:04pm
C

Cthelites

Senior Member

1,951 posts
Feb 18, 2013 3:28 PM
Lou Demas;1391517 wrote:So, add to my analogy the kids had to be physically pulled apart. now what, you still cancel a graduation? so you can tell me that you could sit down with your son tell him, son I know you worked really hard for 4 years to graduate I know you have not gotten in trouble this manner before and I know how stressful finals week can be but rules are rules you're not graduating. I just think the most parents would be sitting in the principal's office talking to the principal trying to find a better way to punish their children the so they can graduate and I believe this what happened at inner city school or a prep school.
and we are not a community service program but we are community wrestlers and we know how to handle wrestlers
And this is what our society has evolved into! No one willing to stand up and suffer the consequences of their actions. In yrs past it was the parents yelling at the kids at the principals office. Now its the other way around with the parents yelling at the principal. Lord help us!
Feb 18, 2013 3:28pm
L

Lou Demas

Member

87 posts
Feb 18, 2013 3:32 PM
M5 ,
if you truly want to move on to a better subject topic like in Congrats to all the kids, which should be done, then,you should have just stated that but by also interjecting your opinion, all you're really saying is, I'm right you're wrong let's move on.

and I don't think I we're arguing over excuseability in this matter but whether the punishment fit the crime.
Feb 18, 2013 3:32pm
L

Lou Demas

Member

87 posts
Feb 18, 2013 3:48 PM
Cthelites,
In no way would I endorse not punishing a child for imexcuseable behavior. Yet the punishment should fit the crime. Missing a graduation or state meet for a event that was out of character for the child whether or not he comes from rich or poor parents , is in my opinion,excessive . Had I been kicked out of school just prior to graduation, I may have been wanting to miss my graduation rather than my father and principal coming up with more creative way to punish me.
Feb 18, 2013 3:48pm
M

mgutrman

Member

50 posts
Feb 18, 2013 4:29 PM
lou i love ya man, but step back and look at the big picture. AA will be a stronger person from this. it will help he learn to control his temper and act more like a man. In life if he lost his temper like that and had no one to hold him back he would have to use self control or he would be in jail. Do i feel for the kid yes but he being a young adult needs these life leasons. We as adults have a duty to get these kids ready for life, not wrestling that is a bonus we provide for kids as insentive to stay in school and keep their grades up. We wouldn't be having the same arguement if he didn't make the grades or would we?
Feb 18, 2013 4:29pm
D

Dad4Sports

Senior Member

1,779 posts
Feb 18, 2013 4:34 PM
Cthelites;1391668 wrote:And this is what our society has evolved into! No one willing to stand up and suffer the consequences of their actions. In yrs past it was the parents yelling at the kids at the principals office. Now its the other way around with the parents yelling at the principal. Lord help us!
:thumbup:
Feb 18, 2013 4:34pm
R

rassler

Senior Member

159 posts
Feb 18, 2013 4:36 PM
Mr. Demas is one of my most respected posters on this forum, but I am going to have to disagree with him on this one.

This "incident" and the varying opinions are unfortunately a microcosm of what our society has become. Every single match at this sectional resulted in a winner and a loser. With the exception of one, the standard of proper expected behavior was met. Why should 99.9% of the field be held 100% accountable for their actions and not the .10%? The expectation standard and possible punishment were known. By lowering the "acceptable behavior" standards for one individual aren't we doing the 99.9% a huge disservice? Today, there are far to many people lowering unmet standardards/expectations so that they can reach them. Is this what we want to teach the kids?
Feb 18, 2013 4:36pm
M

M5 Grappler

Member

41 posts
Feb 18, 2013 4:52 PM
rassler;1391711 wrote:Mr. Demas is one of my most respected posters on this forum, but I am going to have to disagree with him on this one.

This "incident" and the varying opinions are unfortunately a microcosm of what our society has become. Every single match at this sectional resulted in a winner and a loser. With the exception of one, the standard of proper expected behavior was met. Why should 99.9% of the field be held 100% accountable for their actions and not the .10%? The expectation standard and possible punishment were known. By lowering the "acceptable behavior" standards for one individual aren't we doing the 99.9% a huge disservice? Today, there are far to many people lowering unmet standardards/expectations so that they can reach them. Is this what we want to teach the kids?
Excellent Post- Sums up the whole incident perfectly. And Lou, I don't know where you were Saturday, but I saw and heard it from about 12 feet away. The tournament committee had no choice but to follow the rules for the integrity of the sport and all 111 wrestlers competing who saw it. My point isn't anything other than the rules were followed as they are written by all but one, who hopefully learns from it.
Feb 18, 2013 4:52pm
B

bump_and_run

Senior Member

321 posts
Feb 18, 2013 5:28 PM
Lou Demas;1391680 wrote:Cthelites,
In no way would I endorse not punishing a child for imexcuseable behavior. Yet the punishment should fit the crime. Missing a graduation or state meet for a event that was out of character for the child whether or not he comes from rich or poor parents , is in my opinion,excessive . Had I been kicked out of school just prior to graduation, I may have been wanting to miss my graduation rather than my father and principal coming up with more creative way to punish me.
Mr. Demas, you've obviously forgotten more about wrestling than I'll ever know, but please stop digging -- when you got to the point where you equalized a wrestling tournament and graduating from high school, you hit bedrock...and you kept going.

(In any case...I can't let this go, but a kid physically threatens the principal and a teacher the week before graduation and has to be physically restrained otherwise he would have carried out that threat then...uh, yeah, that kid's missing graduation.)
Feb 18, 2013 5:28pm
L

Lou Demas

Member

87 posts
Feb 18, 2013 5:31 PM
I hesitated posting on the subject because I'm too close to it, I worked with Anthony over the summer and took him to some clinics. I got sick to my stomach when I heard what happened. He's a good kid. So when I come on the forum and, well now we know his true colors his a thug or something like that ,I got upset. I do not want to lower the standards for conduct, I simply want them to reflect a certain sense of fairness for the rich or poor kid. We are dealing with children , children make mistakes and they should be punished so they can learn from it . I'm not much for absolutes nor do I think our society is. this is why we have judges to distribute the punishment, cop sometimes let us out of tickets teachers don't always send kids to the principal's office for everything infraction. I am curious if anybody on this form found out their child got in a fight at school but none of the administrators or teachers knew about it , would you turn your own child in,knowing they would miss graduation. or might you called the other parents of the kid who your child was fighting with and try to squash it? and punish your kids appropriately for their actions?
This just my opinion and I also don't get upset if people don't agree with me. Anthony cause this, he got kicked out of tournament tournament , I only hope the reasoning behind such a strict adherence to the rules was done because they thought that was in the best interest of Anthony.
Feb 18, 2013 5:31pm
U

Underrated

Senior Member

156 posts
Feb 18, 2013 5:53 PM
Although I don't agree with you I understand what you are trying to say. Right or wrong exceptions are made and rules are bent sometimes. The problem in this case is Anthony did this in full site of the entire gym. If you let him wrestle what do you do this weekend if some one else does the same thing at Darby. They get ejected and then appeal because of what happened at Marysville. I feel for the kid 38-0 and a likely state placement in front of him. He underestimated his opponent and lost his cool. That cannot go unpunished. Too many times in today's society we put these high school athletes on a pedestal and they come to think the rules don't apply to them.
Feb 18, 2013 5:53pm
R

Refman

Senior Member

114 posts
Feb 18, 2013 6:27 PM
My 2 cents...the initial "FU" to the ref is enough for FMC. The fact that while restrained he threatens the ref....that is FMC, without hesitation. Such a simple call. The referee tried to be human...he tried to be a "nice guy" I know this ref well...he is a nice man. But...when he called me and I kicked his ass very hard on the phone for being a "nice guy" in this situation. I asked him if he thought I was going to side with his original taking the FMC back and he said no. He know when he called me I was going to kick his ass....and here is why. By allowing this behavior to go unpunished...he is giving that kid permission to do it again to a another referee...that cant happen. It has to stop here and lessons learned. The sad part is if this kid learned a lesson or does he think he is the victim. I hope a lesson was learned.
Feb 18, 2013 6:27pm
Half Full Nelson's avatar

Half Full Nelson

Member

57 posts
Feb 18, 2013 7:02 PM
I was about 1 feet from this when it went down on Saturday, and also spoke with one of the officials about it, and the thing was not a "black and white" or clear cut as some are making it out to be. My initial reaction was "wow...that official exercised some restraint there...good for him," because it was not apparent to me, at that point, that he had been ejected. Would he have been justified in booting him on the spot? Certainly. My problem is how the thing went down. My understanding is that he would have been able to continue had Jerome's coach not complained about it. And THAT is what I have a problem. A total douche move, in my opinion. (And, if that's NOT how it went down, please correct me, but - again - I spoke with an official about it during the tournament, and that's how he told me it went down, and he said he didn't like it either.) I'm disappointed I won't get to watch him wrestle the next two weeks, but I'll be much more disappointed if this in any way affects his ability to attend college or get a scholarship. (And, anyone who thinks "poor kids" gt to go to college "for free" has obviously never been a poor kid trying to pay for college.)
Feb 18, 2013 7:02pm
G

Go_Wrestle

Junior Member

12 posts
Feb 18, 2013 7:15 PM
I also was front row seating for this. The ref signaled ejection. Why would the Dublin coach even think his kid would be wrestling Anthony after that? He was supposed to be out of the tournament. That's where I am confused about the Dublin coach being blamed. He had every right to question this since he was aware or saw the call made by the ref.
Feb 18, 2013 7:15pm
O

ohiojoe

Junior Member

1 posts
Feb 18, 2013 7:28 PM
Go wrestle read refman's post slowly. Explains everything
Feb 18, 2013 7:28pm
D

Dad4Sports

Senior Member

1,779 posts
Feb 18, 2013 8:07 PM
Half Full Nelson;1391796 wrote: My understanding is that he would have been able to continue had Jerome's coach not complained about it.
This doesn't make one bit of sense to me.....either the wrestler was DQ'd/ejected, or he wasn't. Just because a coach questioned the situation, it would not be able to change the decision.

From what refman wrote, I'm a bit confused.....the ref ejected the wrestler, then changed his mind......and then changed his mind again back to the original ejection? Is this what happened? If so, how does the Dublin coach figure in this? Was it his complaint that encouraged the ref to make the final decision to DQ? It's hard on these message boards to read between the lines.....maybe I'm way off base?
Feb 18, 2013 8:07pm
hasbeen's avatar

hasbeen

Excuse me, Flo?

6,504 posts
Feb 18, 2013 8:19 PM
Lou Demas;1391750 wrote:I do not want to lower the standards for conduct, I simply want them to reflect a certain sense of fairness for the rich or poor kid.
So the 'poor' kid breaks the rules because he is unable to handle an adverse situation(in this case, not in all cases) and you want to allow him to continue with the privilege of wrestling in the district tournament.
All the while, the 'rich' kid who kept his cool throughout his losses and didn't break the rules is being stripped of his chance of wrestling in the district tournament. A chance that fell into his lap in a way that chances sometimes do. Are you saying that because he's a 'rich' kid he doesn't deserve the privilege of wrestling at Darby?

You are attempting to find an alternative method for punishing this young man when you should really be looking to discover a way to teach him to control his anger in sudden, adverse situations. I say this only because next time life punches him in the jaw, there might not be somebody there to restrain him. You believe that giving him a second chance because he is underprivileged would benefit him. I feel it would cripple him. It would give him a, possibly unknown, sense of invincibility against normal consequences because of the hardships.

I'm sure this is not what you are meaning to portray, but it is how it's coming off, to me at least. It sounds like this young man worked as hard as anyone to become good enough to compete at such a high level. This teachable moment will serve him greatly as he continues his life that will contain many tough situations. I'm sure his reaction will be more controlled because of this incident.
Feb 18, 2013 8:19pm
U

Underrated

Senior Member

156 posts
Feb 18, 2013 9:11 PM
hasbeen;1391844 wrote:So the 'poor' kid breaks the rules because he is unable to handle an adverse situation(in this case, not in all cases) and you want to allow him to continue with the privilege of wrestling in the district tournament.
All the while, the 'rich' kid who kept his cool throughout his losses and didn't break the rules is being stripped of his chance of wrestling in the district tournament. A chance that fell into his lap in a way that chances sometimes do. Are you saying that because he's a 'rich' kid he doesn't deserve the privilege of wrestling at Darby?

You are attempting to find an alternative method for punishing this young man when you should really be looking to discover a way to teach him to control his anger in sudden, adverse situations. I say this only because next time life punches him in the jaw, there might not be somebody there to restrain him. You believe that giving him a second chance because he is underprivileged would benefit him. I feel it would cripple him. It would give him a, possibly unknown, sense of invincibility against normal consequences because of the hardships.

I'm sure this is not what you are meaning to portray, but it is how it's coming off, to me at least. It sounds like this young man worked as hard as anyone to become good enough to compete at such a high level. This teachable moment will serve him greatly as he continues his life that will contain many tough situations. I'm sure his reaction will be more controlled because of this incident.
Well said! I believe that is the perfect ending to this discussion.
Feb 18, 2013 9:11pm
G

Go_Wrestle

Junior Member

12 posts
Feb 18, 2013 9:14 PM
I re-read it and I understand why he thought he could wrestle now. Ref tried to have a heart, and maybe other coaches would have to if it wasn't one of the worst cases of FMC that at least I have ever seen. Wrestlers have been ejected for much less. Bad situation for everyone involved. I hope this does not define Anthony's future.
Feb 18, 2013 9:14pm
L

Lou Demas

Member

87 posts
Feb 18, 2013 9:28 PM
Hasbeen, I think you either misread my of or I was unclear in what I was writing. I want it to be fair for both, if you have a rich kid who didn't have a history of an outburst or anything this nature , I would not put him out of districts either, unless he was my own kid, I'd pull him out myself because I know how much he has been given. However, if the rich gets to boot , where he lives is quite a different environment than a city kid in general. What I'm arguing is ther is more mitigating circumstances and they need to be taken into consideration for all kids rich and poor. When I first posted on this I was still pretty salty about someone calling Anthony a thug and I think my post reflect that, however I try to refine my post to make my stance on this clear and consistent. So, I will state it one more time. when a kid acts out in a tournament in this manner, early in the season,he is kick out of that tournament and the next tournament. I believe is inappropriate response. However if the kid has no history of this type of behavior before, I think it is excessive to kick him out of the tournament without looking at alternative ways to punish him. I was just talking to a high school football coach today he told me the only time I've ever given kids breaks when they've had this kind of behavior a problem,is at graduation time, I think the same kind of logic applies here.
Feb 18, 2013 9:28pm