CenterBHSFan wrote:

The DoE was supposed to set the standard of excellence of education. I have posted before that the data shows that no real improvement in education has occured since Carter gifted it to teachers unions. In other words, since it's creation. That is the complaint that most people have. And since govt thought that the remedy to the remedy was to just keep dumping more money into it without results, yes, people bitched about it. 

These are two examples of what people bitch about, one of them is from the DoE itself.

You keep saying this is ancedotal because reasons, I guess.

Do you know what their definition of proficient is? 

Just in case you didn’t  

Teachers and teacher unions are obvious easy targets and I can accept that. But let’s be honest parent are not doing their part. 

 Which I get parents work a ton and are stressed out and don’t have time to spend with their kids and get “ burnt out” when they have to. 

Part of the reason we are in this position is parents get irate when teachers push their kids and try to hold them accountable. 

They are busy and just want to drop their kid off and they just come back smart with good behavior. These kids spend most of their time with the only adult who talks to them is the teacher, then complain that teachers are indoctrinating our youth. 

Maybe spend the summer doing STEM activities and enrichment activities with your kids and teaching them your core values and then any comments by teachers won’t matter. 

Support the teachers and check their homework logs and talk to your children and you will have a successful child. 

This isn’t about anyone here just saying in general what I see and read and hear when I talk to parents. 

That being said I think this generation of students is extremely talented and very creative, tons of special and talented students out there. 

Ok rant over thanks for my Ted talk 

CenterBHSFan wrote:

The DoE was supposed to set the standard of excellence of education. I have posted before that the data shows that no real improvement in education has occured since Carter gifted it to teachers unions. In other words, since it's creation. That is the complaint that most people have. And since govt thought that the remedy to the remedy was to just keep dumping more money into it without results, yes, people bitched about it. 

These are two examples of what people bitch about, one of them is from the DoE itself.

You keep saying this is ancedotal because reasons, I guess.

The DoE was created to consolidate funding in disparate parts of the federal government. It distributes funding that already was going to states. By far the vast majority of control over schools is local. 

What’s anecdotal is continuing this claim that “we were number 1 until the DoE came about”. It suggests there was some verifiable standard of comparison. There was nothing of the sort.

QuakerOats wrote:

If you don’t think federal funding comes with (woke) strings attached, I don’t kniw what to tell you.  If you don’t think ciltural marxism emanates from militant monopolistic union hierarchy, I don’t know what to tell.  If you don’t know we spend more on education at all levels combined than any other country, and turn out less than a superior product, I don’t know what to tell you.

And yes, the funding vehicle can be changed to move away from property taxes.  If you don’t think property taxes are built into people’s rent (who don’t live in gated communities), I don’t know what to tell you.

Your buzzword soup…

Yes we do spend a lot, I won’t argue there. But the big bad DoE or teacher unions, while simple to point to are stupid boogeymen.  The vast majority of spending and control for schools come from local levels. Schools that excel almost always in more affluent areas. They don’t have the burden of managing higher levels of special needs kids, transient kids, transportation problems, etc. Yhe money that comes from the DoE, while not constituting the vast majority of spend, is largely money distributed to help these issues. Simply eliminating the DoE, what would that do.

Ironically for you, many of the countries with better education outcomes than us have a k-12 system managed centrally by Big Government.

geeblock wrote:

Just in case you didn’t  

The basic dictionary definition also means "competent", which 75% of students are not. 

As a reminder, the majority are also not literate. 

geeblock wrote:

Teachers and teacher unions are obvious easy targets and I can accept that. But let’s be honest parent are not doing their part. 

 Which I get parents work a ton and are stressed out and don’t have time to spend with their kids and get “ burnt out” when they have to. 

Part of the reason we are in this position is parents get irate when teachers push their kids and try to hold them accountable. 

They are busy and just want to drop their kid off and they just come back smart with good behavior. These kids spend most of their time with the only adult who talks to them is the teacher, then complain that teachers are indoctrinating our youth. 

Maybe spend the summer doing STEM activities and enrichment activities with your kids and teaching them your core values and then any comments by teachers won’t matter. 

Support the teachers and check their homework logs and talk to your children and you will have a successful child. 

This isn’t about anyone here just saying in general what I see and read and hear when I talk to parents. 

That being said I think this generation of students is extremely talented and very creative, tons of special and talented students out there. 

Ok rant over thanks for my Ted talk 

I actually agree with most of this. As in parents should be raising their kids, not teachers. Teachers need to teach things like reading and math or whatnot.

I think where we split paths is that many teachers and schools go on to other things that are not theirs to teach. Like gender ideology.

Boogie, you are partially correct, the other part is incorrect. I suppose we can both be right, eh?

QO brings up and interesting way at looking at who pays property taxes. Yes, property taxes are spread out across rents, along with building insurance, etc. At any rate, property taxes are still being paid.

At the core of the issue is government using the threat of force and the promise of theft to essentially make property owners pay continuous rent for property that they, the individual, already owns. 

Like a forever Rent-A-Center.

The conundrum for me is - how else is a community or county supposed to provide schools, upkeep on them and so on. 

On the other hand, I pay a kings ransom in property taxes on land that my family had owned for well over 100 years. Closer to 150 years, actually. The lady person to graduate from high school was me. And now almost 40 years later, still paying but paying exponentially more than what was paid when I was in school. That might not seem to be a problem with people who buy and sell a couple of times or several times. But at some point it starts to become a racket and highly unfair. 

CenterBHSFan wrote:

I actually agree with most of this. As in parents should be raising their kids, not teachers. Teachers need to teach things like reading and math or whatnot.

I think where we split paths is that many teachers and schools go on to other things that are not theirs to teach. Like gender ideology.

we would probably have to disagree on that.  I think teachers simply adapt to what is presented in front of them and try to provide a child in that situation a safe space.  I don't know one teacher who would choose to deal with that over just teaching what they are paid to teach.

geeblock wrote:

Teachers and teacher unions are obvious easy targets and I can accept that. But let’s be honest parent are not doing their part. 

 Which I get parents work a ton and are stressed out and don’t have time to spend with their kids and get “ burnt out” when they have to. 

Part of the reason we are in this position is parents get irate when teachers push their kids and try to hold them accountable. 

They are busy and just want to drop their kid off and they just come back smart with good behavior. These kids spend most of their time with the only adult who talks to them is the teacher, then complain that teachers are indoctrinating our youth. 

Maybe spend the summer doing STEM activities and enrichment activities with your kids and teaching them your core values and then any comments by teachers won’t matter. 

Support the teachers and check their homework logs and talk to your children and you will have a successful child. 

This isn’t about anyone here just saying in general what I see and read and hear when I talk to parents. 

That being said I think this generation of students is extremely talented and very creative, tons of special and talented students out there. 

Ok rant over thanks for my Ted talk 

Largely agree here.  A lot of parents are not doing their job.  Many are not even around, which is another topic/problem, for another day.  

What can we do to make parents be more accountable. I agree 100% they are the biggest part of the issue the question is what would you do or could you do to the parents. 

Off topic kinda but in Columbus the new thing for kids this summer is pop up parties. There’s an Instagram account that posts there will be a party at so and so at such and such a time. Then 200-300 kids show up and take over an apartment complex’s pool and amenities. They have done it several times in multiple places around Columbus. It has led to shots being fired atleast twice already. They leave the apartment complex trashed and threaten the people who live there. Then people doing this are between the ages of 12-18. We got to start punishing the kids harshly or punishing the parents. This is just the new KIA boys trend.

geeblock wrote:

we would probably have to disagree on that.  I think teachers simply adapt to what is presented in front of them and try to provide a child in that situation a safe space.  I don't know one teacher who would choose to deal with that over just teaching what they are paid to teach.

I think that teachers are sometimes first responders. They do a good job, too, when it comes to things like noticing abuse or malnutrition. It should be NONE of their concern to insert themselves as a child's guide to sexuality. Any teacher, who has a position of power over children, wanting to take that position raises my hackles. It's fucking gross and there's no excuse for it. 

CenterBHSFan wrote:

I think that teachers aren't sometimes first responders. They do a good job, too, when it comes to things like noticing abuse or malnutrition. It should be NONE of their concern to insert themselves as a child's guide to sexuality. Any teacher, who has a position of power over children, wanting to take that position raises my hackles. It's fucking gross and there's no excuse for it. 

In my experience over 30 years years teachers feel the same way. And yet once every few years it becomes something that must be dealt with. Again I’m not privy to California or other more liberal states, but teachers are no different than a cross section of regular people. They aren’t all liberal in fact many are conservative. IMO I don’t see them inserting themselves by saying their classroom is a safe space for everyone or referring to a child by whatever name they want to be called. 

I fixed a typo that said aren't when I meant that they are good first responders.