I grew up with a very religious background. Raised Lutheran, church every Sunday and every other church event in between Sundays. As I've grown older, I've kicked around religion for years now, meaning, I've debated in my head whether or not "God" exists.

I went to church for the first time in probably a year yesterday and I was very uncomfortable. Worshipers, dull and in unison, sounding cult like reading scripture...it was uncomfortable at times. During the "prayers" a child was mentioned who was terminally ill, suffering and nearing the end of his 2 years on this earth.

On the way home, I contemplated what kind of a "God," makes an innocent child suffer? The feeling got stronger as I started thinking about, what kind of a "God" allows an innocent child to get raped, savagely beaten, dismembered, etc....all those other horrific things you read almost daily in the news?

I've heard people for years say, "God was ready for him, he's in a better place now." Or, "it was his time." Really? God was ready for a 3 year old little girl, who's done nothing more than yearn for love and comfort....so God allowed her to get viciously murdered and suffer, scared out of her wits end until her last breath? THAT'S how this loving God I've been raised to worship takes her? If God is so loving and caring...why not a simple death (if the aforementioned reasoning behind "her time" is true)?

Now don't get me wrong, if there is a God, I want to be on board when it's my time. I want my kids to be on board. I tell them about God and Jesus (even if we don't go to church). But it's hard, I almost feel like I'm lying to them.

So, if someone can help me understand, without using the notorious "because that's what the Bible says" or "it's just that way, we will never understand," I would greatly appreciate it.

...and, if this belongs in the "political forum," feel free to move. Thanks.

I'm in the same boat. I'll go to church and show my kids the way. I'll let them make the call whether they want to pursue it for themselves. I have made up my mind, but I'm not going to decide for my kids.

I have the same background as you. Started my faith as Methodist then became Lutheran, stopped going to the church about a year ago after some changes took place that were the will of man not that of the big man upstairs. The church has since gone through many many changes including outing the Pastor who was pretty much the only reason I went in the first place. You get the point huge drama fest.

I can see how people honestly struggle with faith, it isn't hard enough as it is let's throw some hypocrisy and politics in there too. I realize that bad things happen in the world and there really is no explanation for them. Some of it is of course due to the sin in the world.

I cannot tell you what the answer is or what to believe. I have never pushed my faith onto someone else. If you want to hear my story I will gladly tell it. I tell my friends I am a mutt, I don't agree with any one denomination exactly. The bottom line is no one can tell you what to believe or why things happen cause they don't know either. You'll find an understanding and what your looking for, you just never know when.

Best of luck.

I have recently been close to a similar issue SB. My friend from HS recently lost his 4 yr old son to a 2 year battle with cancer. Kyle was a beautiful child, and a good friend of my son. During this time I had to struggle with the same questions that you are going through now. This is what I believe. Every single minute of every hour, of every day, a war is taking place for each and every one of us. I wish that I could say that good wins every time. Sometimes bad things happen to good and Godly people, and in some instances that can be the work of evil trying to turn our eyes away from the Lord. All it takes is a single crack of doubt to crumble our walls. I believe that evil put that cancer into Kyle to pull him or his family away from their faith. Satan does not play by the rules, and I think that these terrible things that happen are his way of tearing us away and creating those cracks. "How could a loving and faithful God allow this to happen to him?" I do believe that Kyle's death was the work of the Lord in that the pain had to end, and he could not bare any more. God did want Kyle in Heaven with Him. Most likely, not the way it happened, but to know that they are together now helps me deal with my own pain of loosing him. I pray often that the events of Kyle's life have brought his family closer to God, and not driven them away. I am not a Bible thumper. I am a simple salesman who tries every day to find the good in things. I have walked away from God, and found my way back again. I hope this can help with the struggles you are going through. The fact that you are having these struggles seems to strengthen my point.

I think that's why it's called "faith".....

At the very end of the deal, we have free will. God does not wish terrible things to happen, but he allows them because of free will (Adam in the garden)....and works in the lives of people around those that have bad things happen to them.

That's all I got.....

i agree with red rider it's all part of free will. without free will we would all be mindless robots, however bad things come as a cost of free will.

I believe it is called faith because logically it doesn't make sense on the surface at times. It is called belief because you ar trusting something that isn't tangible.

My son died in August of 2008. Intially my reaction was pretty similar to yours. Why did God allow this to happen to him/us? I cannot say I was ever really mad at God, but had my share of questions about God.

Now over the course of time I am seeing some other pieces to the puzzle, and am understanding perhaps why some things like this happen. I don't have all the answers that I am still looking for, but am learning to become patient and let time help me learn some lessons I wouldn't have had learned if this didn't happen in my life.

I don't know if that helps or makes it more confusing for you. I might not have the right approach to such situations but it is the one I am pursuing.

I liken God to a Fantasy Football team owner: he has the power to put together a team of humans, but ultimately he leaves them to do their thing. I think he roots for his team of humans to do well, but for every Peyton Manning-esque Ghandi, there are Rex Grossman-esque Jeffrey Dahmers ...

Good analogy. Now I have to try to figure out what player I would be on that team.

I have faith that something is there when I die. Do I believe I will see the big man. No I dont. I think he was made up years ago cause humans reallized there was money to be made from it. Look at some of the churches in the world at the size of them. Look at the building techniques and think how they could afford them. Its cause religions pray on people and people just keep donating. Since when did god/jesus need millions of dollars to live. I understand donating food or other substances to the churches but why should we donate money.

I believe were a science experiment for a kid of some alien race. Kinda like an ant farm.

THE4RINGZ wrote: Good analogy. Now I have to try to figure out what player I would be on that team.

Well, Babs is already the catcher, so you don't need to worry about that position.

Society wrote:

THE4RINGZ wrote: Good analogy. Now I have to try to figure out what player I would be on that team.

Well, Babs is already the catcher, so you don't need to worry about that position.

We were doing so well Mini BAB, now you have to go and mess it all up ... you must be a manly man, seeing that you think "catcher" is a position in football. Perhaps you should join the fantasy ballet league.

Ha!

BigAppleBuckeye wrote:

Society wrote:

THE4RINGZ wrote: Good analogy. Now I have to try to figure out what player I would be on that team.

Well, Babs is already the catcher, so you don't need to worry about that position.

We were doing so well Mini BAB, now you have to go and mess it all up ... you must be a manly man, seeing that you think "catcher" is a position in football. Perhaps you should join the fantasy ballet league.

Really? That's all you could come up with, even on a 2nd attempt edit? No applause on the effort.

Snotty, A couple of months ago Ernest was or still is going through the same thing. Your church background mayave shown you the path, unfortunately without a theological education you have no map.

I applaud you for having the courage to face the fact that your faith is dwindling and yet, you fell compelled to let your children dink of the tree and find their own answers. If you listen closely, that little voice you are hearing is pointing you down the direction.

The God that you find on your own is far more loving and powerful than the god that is thrust upon you.

Churches are merely a support structure for people that have sane questions as you. Unfortunately, for most people, they let the church define who they are, instead of using the church for the strength and courage to help them down the path on your journey to find God.

Listen closely and pay attention. The song of God is all around you. It is also written on your loved ones faces. You just need to listen and pay attention. Sooner or later, you will not only find God, You will be immersed in him.

I simply believe that there IS a God, that God played a part in creation, and the existence of things. However, I just don't believe that God is playing a part in the everyday lives of people now. I don't believe that God is up there sifting through prayers, discarding some, and granting others.

Of course I could be wrong, but that's what makes sense to me, and that's what keeps me from questioning what faith I do have.

First, please don't take this as an insult; however, just because a person is raised in the faith, or a denomination, etc. doesn't mean the answers will be there. Unless you had a relationship with the Father in your own heart (not your parents, or your church's), but of your own, you can't understand.

To those difficult questions...God is not willing that any should perish; however, with sin came death. When an "innocent" child dies, we must realize, that while we can't grasp it, that child is a sinner as well, as "innocent" as they are. They didn't die because of their sin, but because sin has made our world full of so many evils (cancer, rapists, etc.)

Each person must find faith for themselves and must develop their own understanding of who God is and have a personal relationship. I don't believe there are any easy answers when it comes to faith except that old, and sometimes hard to accept adage, "just trust Him."

As for your bad experience at church yesterday...I know what you mean. So many churches are full of men/women who don't understand how to worship. Probably because there is no real relationship with a loving Father in their heart. I can only encourage you by telling you there are many churches out there who are full of excited worshippers. For instance, in my denomination, there are many churches that are "dull" and have "little life." However, I came away yesterday from our service thanking God that we are full of joy and not like one of those "lukewarm" churches.

Best of luck.

Upper90 wrote: I simply believe that there IS a God, that God played a part in creation, and the existence of things. However, I just don't believe that God is playing a part in the everyday lives of people now. I don't believe that God is up there sifting through prayers, discarding some, and granting others.

Of course I could be wrong, but that's what makes sense to me, and that's what keeps me from questioning what faith I do have.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.

I don't believe anything. I do question why we're on Earth though. However, I don't question it enough to take a chunk out of my Sunday to sit through a boring, uncomfortable and awkward room with brainwashed people.

ive always kinda felt that god was comforting for people who were afraid that they themselves are in control over their lives, or afraid to admit that they are capable of doing good things

buckeyefalls wrote: First, please don't take this as an insult; however, just because a person is raised in the faith, or a denomination, etc. doesn't mean the answers will be there. Unless you had a relationship with the Father in your own heart (not your parents, or your church's), but of your own, you can't understand.

To those difficult questions...God is not willing that any should perish; however, with sin came death. When an "innocent" child dies, we must realize, that while we can't grasp it, that child is a sinner as well, as "innocent" as they are. They didn't die because of their sin, but because sin has made our world full of so many evils (cancer, rapists, etc.)

Each person must find faith for themselves and must develop their own understanding of who God is and have a personal relationship. I don't believe there are any easy answers when it comes to faith except that old, and sometimes hard to accept adage, "just trust Him."

As for your bad experience at church yesterday...I know what you mean. So many churches are full of men/women who don't understand how to worship. Probably because there is no real relationship with a loving Father in their heart. I can only encourage you by telling you there are many churches out there who are full of excited worshippers. For instance, in my denomination, there are many churches that are "dull" and have "little life." However, I came away yesterday from our service thanking God that we are full of joy and not like one of those "lukewarm" churches.

Best of luck.

I tend to agree with this as well. Unfortunaetly what happens in churches across the world may often have little to do with worshipping God and living as He wants us to. Going to/attending church doesn't make one a "Christian"; knowing Jesus as the one who died for your sins does. Many will disdain this thought, and deride anyone who thinks this, and that is their God given right, as God doesn't "make" anyone believe anything. Everyone has their own free will to believe anything they want, and you can see on this sight the wide range of beliefs that are out there.
God allows suffering, just as He allows people to believe what they want, because everyone has a free will.It's His will that everone would believe in him, but that is their choice. I pray you earnestly seek what the truth really is. Truth is out there for anyone who honestly pursues it.

Just thought the ad for this thread was hilarious.

buckeyefalls wrote:To those difficult questions...God is not willing that any should perish; however, with sin came death. When an "innocent" child dies, we must realize, that while we can't grasp it, that child is a sinner as well, as "innocent" as they are. They didn't die because of their sin, but because sin has made our world full of so many evils (cancer, rapists, etc.)

I agree with this.

I don't believe though that you have to spend your time in church to make it to Heaven. I believe that if you are genuinely a good person who tries to live your life as well as you know how, you will be rewarded in the end.

HighRoller74 wrote:

Just thought the ad for this thread was hilarious.

I saw that ad, too. I think Snot's question has been answered!

there is a God