general94 wrote: Look folks, I don't think anybody in their right mind will suggest that schools like Rosecrans or GCC have a decided advantage. I think people are mainly thinking of schools like Ursuline, Mooney, Alter, etc. that obviously have an advantage. That is what makes this such a hard situation to fix. It is not a one size fits all solution. Forcing schools like Rosecrans, GCC, Stueb. Catholic, etc. up two or three divisions is ludicrous. On the other side, there is no reason why the Mooney's, Ursulines and Alters should not be forced up at least two divisions. I would think enough smart people could put their heads together and come up with a solution everybody could live with.

The above poster is correct, publics have to take every student that lives within their district. Special needs, handicapped, L.D. Should these students be counted in enrollment figures for extra-curricular activities? Something does not seem right about this. A blind man could see a great discrepancy here. Also, does everyone really believe that all of these students that attend private schools are paying tuition. There is the little fact of 'scholarships', or a good player being 'sponsered' by a another players dad that has the big bucks. We all know these sort of things go on. I know there are probably more than a few public schools that do this crap too. This stuff is what the OHSAA should be trying to crack down on.

rmolin73 wrote:

ManO'War wrote: Mooney is the smallest school in D3, but they draw from a large metro area, that is why they have multiple kids going to D1 schools every year.

I could pick 22 players from across the state and beat any team in the state, but my "enrollment" of 22 would put me in D6.

You might want to check this so called large metro area. I checked out Mooney's roster and most of the kids come from the catholic feeder schools (48), Youngstown city schools or private academies (14), one kid from China, and 3 kids from outside the city limits. Wow they are going out of their way to get kids from this enormous metro area. I also can't believe you called Youngstown and the surrounding areas large. Face it these kids play Youngstown football they have been kicking ass for years. The athletes in that pocket are phenomenal.

ManO'War wrote:

rmolin73 wrote:

ManO'War wrote: Mooney is the smallest school in D3, but they draw from a large metro area, that is why they have multiple kids going to D1 schools every year.

I could pick 22 players from across the state and beat any team in the state, but my "enrollment" of 22 would put me in D6.

You might want to check this so called large metro area. I checked out Mooney's roster and most of the kids come from the catholic feeder schools (48), Youngstown city schools or private academies (14), one kid from China, and 3 kids from outside the city limits. Wow they are going out of their way to get kids from this enormous metro area. I also can't believe you called Youngstown and the surrounding areas large. Face it these kids play Youngstown football they have been kicking ass for years. The athletes in that pocket are phenomenal.

I lived in Boardman, the heart of Mooney's territory for 4 years, so I'm quite familiar with the area. They draw kids from the south side of Youngstown, Boardman, Austintown, Canfield, Poland, Struthers, Campbell, Salem, and had players from as far away as Lisbon and East Liverpool. The populations of those areas support two D1 schools, 2 D2 schools, 5 D3 schools, and a D4 school. I would say that is a large metro area.

It doesn't matter if they attended their feeder schools or not, the fact is that they are there, and that is what defines the area that they draw from.

If you get just a few good athletes from each of those communities, then you're going to field a heck of a team.

redstreak one wrote: The multiplier for any private school is easy to figure out, just look at the cross section of society and see if it fits the mold of the same students at a private and public school. For example, Private A and Public B. Both schools are located in a small urban population of say 75,000 people. Both schools are at 200 boys enrollment making them D IV. Private A, who do you think they draw from that population, all, ummm no tuition which has been mentioned keeps a percentage of the population out. So, the 200 boys that are at Private A are pretty motivated to be there be it that their parents pay, or they are working to be there or are on scholarship. Now lets look at Public B, how many of those 200 are motivated to be there! Most schools right around 30-40 percent participation rate in extra curriculars across the board. So, what school percentage wise has a better chance of fielding a better team?

SOCIOECONOMICS people, it is what drives most things in this world. It just isnt public versus private, its SOCIOECONOMICS. Within Piketons conference made up of all publics in rural areas guess which teams predominately do well in all sports, Unioto, Westfall and Zane Trace. All located near or have a strong socioeconomic base. The teams who dont always preform well, or for that matter field every team or sport that is offered, Paint Valley, Southeastern, Huntington, Piketon and Adena all smaller rural teams that have a lower socioeconomic structure.

I am not picking on Privates, Publics in large urban areas, Northland and such benefit just as much as others.

catchr22 wrote: ga--As with most situations there are exceptions. Strong leadership and parental support can overcome many obstacles that weaker programs cannot!!

ManO'War wrote:

rmolin73 wrote:

ManO'War wrote: Mooney is the smallest school in D3, but they draw from a large metro area, that is why they have multiple kids going to D1 schools every year.

I could pick 22 players from across the state and beat any team in the state, but my "enrollment" of 22 would put me in D6.

You might want to check this so called large metro area. I checked out Mooney's roster and most of the kids come from the catholic feeder schools (48), Youngstown city schools or private academies (14), one kid from China, and 3 kids from outside the city limits. Wow they are going out of their way to get kids from this enormous metro area. I also can't believe you called Youngstown and the surrounding areas large. Face it these kids play Youngstown football they have been kicking ass for years. The athletes in that pocket are phenomenal.

I lived in Boardman, the heart of Mooney's territory for 4 years, so I'm quite familiar with the area. They draw kids from the south side of Youngstown, Boardman, Austintown, Canfield, Poland, Struthers, Campbell, Salem, and had players from as far away as Lisbon and East Liverpool. The populations of those areas support two D1 schools, 2 D2 schools, 5 D3 schools, and a D4 school. I would say that is a large metro area.

It doesn't matter if they attended their feeder schools or not, the fact is that they are there, and that is what defines the area that they draw from.

If you get just a few good athletes from each of those communities, then you're going to field a heck of a team.

Paladin wrote: The fact remains, if we are talking football,that if I get the better athletes from the surrounding 7 or 8 communities plus the kids in my city, I'm going to have a he11 of a team, no matter if you are public or private school. But since publics aren't built that way, the private schools stand out and the glaring mismatches become evident.

Years ago, this wasn't much of a problem, but when suburban flight occured from the cities, parochials grew from being made up of kids from the city to made up of kids from 8-10 communities. That is not a fair playing field.

Paladin wrote: The fact remains, if we are talking football,that if I get the better athletes from the surrounding 7 or 8 communities plus the kids in my city, I'm going to have a he11 of a team, no matter if you are public or private school. But since publics aren't built that way, the private schools stand out and the glaring mismatches become evident.

Years ago, this wasn't much of a problem, but when suburban flight occured from the cities, parochials grew from being made up of kids from the city to made up of kids from 8-10 communities. That is not a fair playing field.

gamauter wrote:

Stubenville blows this theory to hell.

Sonofanump wrote: Here is my idea of how this could be “changed/fixed”:

Enrollment figures shall consist of all state funded students who qualify physically and academically for extra curricular activities minus those students whose IEP qualifies them to spend more than 25% of the school day in a self contained classroom. This would weed out the “dead weight” without some arbitrary multiplier being applied like they did in the 1787 with the 5/3 compromise.

The divisions shall consist of a 60 team super division, a 60 team small school division and six 100 team middle divisions. The small school division can only consist of public non open enrollment schools. The super division will contain the 30 largest public and 30 largest private schools. Put Glenville (I can’t think of any other school like this to put up there, I guess CAPE is it existed) in this super division due to strict enrollment and allow schools like, McKinley and Massillon to enroll up. This would put the cut off of the super division near 750 boys. I imagine the small school division cut off would be near 100, so no MAC schools dominate there.

The only other solution would be to separate the public and private schools and have five public divisions and three private divisions.