i have to agree with others, dont make a bad situation worse by touching someone's kid. tell an administrator. if i saw someone touch my kid it would be on like donkey kong

I don't care where you're from,the rules are clear--unless you're acting in self defense of you or your child,you DO NOT TOUCH another kid-period. As other posters mentioned,if I would have seen ANYONE chastising my kid WHILE TOUCHING HIM/HER,there would have been a problem--a BIG problem.

If you think that is heckling then you haven't heard and seen anything yet. I've been to game where I've heard a lot worse.

BTW, putting your hand on a kid is not acceptable. You would have been gone if I was the kid.

[/quote]

No doubt I would have a talk with my son if he had done something like this.
The problem I would have is seeing a stranger with his hand on my son. Mr. Pariah I'm sure was not going to hurt this kid but his comments could come accross as threatening. Not sure what I would have done if I were in Mr. Pariah's shoes either. It would only take one idiot to escalate the situation.
My kids have gone on to college. But I as any parent have that same drive to protect them.
I to want everyone to understand I mean no disrespect. Just having a discussion.
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I witnessed the conversation... the most threatening Pariah did was tap the kid on the shoulder to get his attention. His tone of voice and the smile he kept on his face helped, although I have a feeling the kid realized that Dad was probably a bit upset. After the fact, the kid handled the situation well. And yea, he was just trying to be funny. He and a friend were dressed up nerdy tourists.

tfloangel wrote:

No doubt I would have a talk with my son if he had done something like this.
The problem I would have is seeing a stranger with his hand on my son. Mr. Pariah I'm sure was not going to hurt this kid but his comments could come accross as threatening. Not sure what I would have done if I were in Mr. Pariah's shoes either. It would only take one idiot to escalate the situation.
My kids have gone on to college. But I as any parent have that same drive to protect them.
I to want everyone to understand I mean no disrespect. Just having a discussion.
[/quote]



I witnessed the conversation... the most threatening Pariah did was tap the kid on the shoulder to get his attention. His tone of voice and the smile he kept on his face helped, although I have a feeling the kid realized that Dad was probably a bit upset. After the fact, the kid handled the situation well. And yea, he was just trying to be funny. He and a friend were dressed up nerdy tourists.
[/quote]

I appreciate they eyewitness account of the incident, however by Mr. Pariah' own statement he squeezed the kid's shoulder and suggested the behavior stop because it didn't make Dad too happy. Once again I will add that, that type of behavior can be seen as a threat of physical harm. An adult threating a child is no small matter in the eyes of our legal system.
An adult trying to intimidate a 15,16, or 17 year old because they were trying to intimidate his daughter seems a little off to me. Especially after the fact that the situation had been addressed properly on the court and the offending behavior had already stopped.
I am not trying to be an ass about this, I am a pretty level headed guy who has raised four boys through high school sports, and understand sometimes the tempers of parents can get the best of them. What I hate to see are the parents who go way over the top. And maybe Mr. Pariah didn't in this situation, I give him credit for that.
My point is...you go to a game as a spectator whether your child is playing or not, and let the right people take care of it from there. Sit back and watch the game. Enjoy the game, enjoy watching your kid play, and if something goes down you don't agree with, that is all just part of being an athletes parent.

4Ringz,
There was no threat - you invented that - which is corroborated by Angel.

Given that I've never seen the inside of a jail (except to visit Ricola), and that I have never been violent with anyone where it wasn't justified and necessary, it would seem unlikely that it would be parents like me who end up on the 10 O'clock news - another conclusion contrived in ignorance. I think you again demonstrate someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. You don't want to be an ass about this? Then just stop.

You raised 4 boys. Exactly.

You handle your situations the way you handle them. I won't interfere or criticize. I'll protect my daughter as I see fit, will do it unapologetically, and will thank no man for the right. If that lands me in jail, then I'll let you make your points without comment, because they would then have some relevance. But if the young man is helped, the situation is resolved to my satisfaction, no one is upset, etc. Why do you have your bloomers in a bunch?

Kids need to be corrected - they're kids. I would assume that if this kid's parents were there and they were good ones, then they would have beat me to him. All this stuff about being scared to step in when kids are misbehaving might be the reason why they are misbehaving. Seeing this kid as a kind of a victim of me in this situation may be the problem. I understand that some people may be concerned that I could get into trouble for doing what I did, but I don't decide what I do or don't do out of fear. There is nothing that I did that was illegal, immoral, malicious, or anything of the sort. So some folks need to grasp the back of their pants firmly and pull those things out. They'll feel much better.

The latter part of this conversation proves the country music song right, well at least 2/3 of it: GOD IS GREAT, beer is good, and PEOPLE ARE CRAZY!!

By legal definition what you did is at the very least harassment of a minor and borderline assault. But you keep on doing what you want to do. And if you keep getting away with it, good for you.

You might be protecting your daughter as you see fit, and you might be the biggest, meanest, ugliest guy in your family with Bluegrass State DNA, but as others have said on this thread, you happen to do that again at the wrong time, the wrong place or to the wrong kid and that story will make the ten o'clock news.

Look most of us were not there so don't look at it as we are commenting directly ABOUT Pariah... don't take it personally because we have no idea what happened so we can only comment based on our perception... that is... in general (not specific to THIS case)

I think you can see why I say "don't escalate"!
people here are taking it and responding in all sorts of ways!
Imagine if that was your daughter (or son if you have one) and an adult you didn't know confronted them in the hallway... they clearly were uncomfortable and the child informed you that they were threatened?

Pariah talks about being a protector... I imagine those instincts would kick in if that happened!
I think again, most of us would feel more upset at an ADULT THREATENING our child than a kid heckeling them in a game...

Pariah and now a "witness" say it's nothing... now...
but you described it earlier:

I squeezed him on the shoulder, patted him on the back and said firmly, "I don't recommend you do that - it makes Dad unhappy."
now you and I both know that was SUPPOSE to intimidate him and SUPPOSE to put some fear in him...

you went on:
some kids need the brown scared out of them

Again...

do I BLAME you?
no... not at all
I probably would have been worse! (no matter how bad you were... lol)

but based on YOUR description you clearly escalated the situation...
that I advise against simply because of the perception others would have

I'm not even going to get into the sexist issues of your feeling your poor daughter needs protected from everything while a boy can handle themselves... we'll leave that for another thread! lol

Ricola was in jail???? What did I miss???

I would ask...

how would YOU feel if you walked in and saw a man sternly talking to your daughter who's "eyes were bugging out of her head"... and you asked her what was going on and she told you the man threatened her over something somebody told him she said to another kid during a game? (remember you said: "Folks began telling me that he was saying, "You're hot" and the like. When the ref began moving him back, he supposedly said, "She's my wife!"... you didn't even KNOW what he said!)

either way
I'm thinking you wouldn't like that much...

4Ringz, send me a copy of your law school diploma and state law license. What utter nonsense.

Technically, any touching that is unwanted or isn't given express permission for is considered a battery. But practically, that kind of touching goes on every minute of every day in all kinds of contexts. It only gets considered battery if there is malicious intent involved. Say your 10 year old is at the neighbor's house and is throwing rocks at windows. Neighbor grabs him and picks him up kicking and screaming and puts him in your arms at your front door. Try getting your neighbor prosecuted for that.

BDan, you make good points. Yeah, I didn't mind that he was intimidated, but there was nothing done in word or deed that was overtly intimidating. That was his choice in how he perceived it. It's not confortable to be confronted by anyone who isn't happy with you, but discomfort doesn't mean that you have been threatened. It's true enough that my confrontation had the potential to escalate the situation. The fact is that nothing was escalated. The question then is: what would I have done if he didn't keep his mouth shut and take the admonition? My answer: the same thing I did anyway which was to walk away.

Thank you buckeyedan for supporting my contention that the two wrongs don't make a right.

Pariah wrote: 4Ringz, send me a copy of your law school diploma and state law license.

I never represented myself as an attorney. I just gave you a legal definition.

Fans shouldn't get near players. I have been through this many times personally and I understand completely what Pariah and his daughter went through and I think how they handled the situation was more than ok.

buckeyedan wrote: I would ask...

how would YOU feel if you walked in and saw a man sternly talking to your daughter who's "eyes were bugging out of her head"... and you asked her what was going on and she told you the man threatened her over something somebody told him she said to another kid during a game? (remember you said: "Folks began telling me that he was saying, "You're hot" and the like. When the ref began moving him back, he supposedly said, "She's my wife!"... you didn't even KNOW what he said!)

either way
I'm thinking you wouldn't like that much...

The error in your analogy is that there was no threat in the event you are analogizing.

If several people, who are typically reliable, tell you the same thing, then that's good enough for me.

If my kids would do something wrong and were firmly admonished by some adult who sees it, I would thank them. Fortunately, I can't think of any situations where that has been necessary, and I would argue it is because I did put my hands on my own kids as they grew up.

I think some people missed the last post on the first page.

THE4RINGZ wrote: Thank you buckeyedan for supporting my contention that the two wrongs don't make a right.

Two wrongs make a right. Yeah. That's what I was trying to do all along. Brilliant.

Wrong has to have some objective, authoritative source to establish it. So far, all I get is your opinion and your unqualified legal interpretation. Sorrry. Doesn't quite convince me.

You have sure convinced me.

Pariah wrote:
BDan, you make good points. Yeah, I didn't mind that he was intimidated, but there was nothing done in word or deed that was overtly intimidating. That was his choice in how he perceived it.

that's the only thing I disagree with...
we both know you knew he was being intimidated and that was your goal!

not that there's anything wrong with that
I'd do the same! though... I'm not very intimidating so it probably would not get the same result! lol

I'm just throwing out the possible downside!

Pariah wrote:
The error in your analogy is that there was no threat in the event you are analogizing.

Now come on... you implied he felt intimidated and that you were giving a subtle threat of more action should he continue...

AND the point is it's not rather YOU felt you were threatening him... but what HE felt and what HE would say to his parent! (in the example... would it matter if the person who confronted your daughter didn't feel he was intimidating her? even though SHE felt intimidated?)


Here's the bottom line for me...

part of growing up is LEARNING TO DEAL with OTHERS!

parents too often "fight the battles" for their kids and they are shocked when the kids go off to school or enter the work force and can't deal with things... they never had to learn!

I know for us we have had times where two kids get into a dispute... maybe two groups of kids... the parents get involved
the next day the kids have forgotten and are good friends ect
the parents keep it going forever! and it keeps coming back up!

let the kids handle themselvs in some of these situations and be proud of what they can do! (it sounds like your daughter handled herself just fine!)

Well, they don't call me Pariah for nothing!

Thanks to all of the PMers. It seems that I'm not the only one who thinks there are some absolute nuts on here!

posters--let's not waste anymore time and space on this matter...Pariah feels what he did was right,which is cool,and there's no convincing him otherwise. All I can say is that I may or may not have responded as he did if I was in that situation,but I know one thing for sure--if I saw an adult accosting my child in any manner threatening,it would real ugly,real fast--and I don't give a ratsass how big OR ugly the accoster was--'nuff said

Again, despite the fact that no threat was observed by anyone or intended by me, the myth keeps getting presented as a fact, and now I "accosted in a manner threatening" (I think I know what you are saying) the young man. Creating discomfort is not the same as threatening and intimidating.

It's not whether I can be convinced I was right or wrong - it's that I don't care. You weren't there. It's not your kid. If you would have done something different, then congratulations. You have my full support to do or not do whatever you feel is right. You don't think anything more needed said? Fine. That's a legitimate opinion that I have nothing to say about. But saying that I shouldn't have done things I didn't do and making this into something it wasn't is just plain stupidity. Why are you upset about it when I wasn't, the kid wasn't, my daughter wasn't, problem was resolved to everyone's satisfaction and everyone went home happy as far as I know?

At least we have got some traffic going on the girls forum, but I agree. Time to go on to something else - unless someone else wants to chime in with a new angle of irrationality.

well I'm speaking in general...
in general it's not a good idea to escalate a situation that's been handled

but for the specifics... the big part of why people are confused that you "accosted in a manner threatening" is how you presented the situation at the beginning of the thread...

you gave us a wink-wink he knew I was mad and would take action... and informed us "some kids need the brown scared out of them" while telling us how big and scary you are... ect...

whatever happened (we don't know you or the situation so it's what we you wrote!)... I think you can see how people read what you wrote and saw an adult bully, threatening a kid over a situation that you were hearing about second or third hand AND had already been dealt with by the people in charge (and had stopped!)

The lesson is PERCEPTION is reality...
and when you escalate... no matter how just you feel... others may see it with a different slant

buckeyedan wrote: well I'm speaking in general...
in general it's not a good idea to escalate a situation that's been handled

but for the specifics... the big part of why people are confused that you "accosted in a manner threatening" is how you presented the situation at the beginning of the thread...

you gave us a wink-wink he knew I was mad and would take action... and informed us "some kids need the brown scared out of them" while telling us how big and scary you are... ect...

whatever happened (we don't know you or the situation so it's what we you wrote!)... I think you can see how people read what you wrote and saw an adult bully, threatening a kid over a situation that you were hearing about second or third hand AND had already been dealt with by the people in charge (and had stopped!)

The lesson is PERCEPTION is reality...
and when you escalate... no matter how just you feel... others may see it with a different slant

Heckling over a girls play, speed, BB related stuff is expected. When a young punk starts making comments about a High School girls looks, good or bad, someone needs to let him know that it's not appropriate. And please, a ref or school supervisor telling him to step back is not going to solve the problem.

Someone at home did not do their job if a kid is acting this way(towards anyone). Typically it would be a parent of such kid to spout off about "don't talk to my Johnny boy that way".

Can we at least all agree that the girl is lucky she got her looks from her mother?

Junior Samples wrote: Can we at least all agree that the girl is lucky she got her looks from her mother?

Haven't watched a girls BB game since my sisters senior year in '03, but have been reading this thread. So with my infinite experience I believe I am qualified to say that should make every one LOL.