The NCAA had numerous chances to put Bammer down for their abominable history of major cheating and yet refused to act. Technically speaking, there's no reason why they should have been allowed to actually play in the BCS title game this year.

The NCAA didn't do it. To me, this means that they'll never truly come down hard on a program no matter how egregious the offenses may be. There's no reason NOT to cheat. The NCAA is basically the equivalent of a parent who threatens to pound the kid who doesn't clean his room, then gives him a cross look when the room remains a mess.

wow... that's unbelieveable...

the NCAA could put down just about everybody that's anybody in major college football/basketball...after seeing what happened after they gave the death penalty to SMU, they'll never do it again. They're afraid to dole out punishment anymore

Writerbuckeye wrote: Way to totally miss the point.

Congrats.

Trueblue was comparing Alabama's cheating with infractions at Ohio State. Now please tell me how long Ohio State was on probation for any violations, or how many games they had to forfeit.

Then get back to me about whether it was a good comparison or not.

OSU leads the country in violations. That is #1, the most infractions. It doesn't matter whether there was probation or forfeited games, we aren't talking about punishment. I didn't say that OSU had more severe infractions, but they have the most of anyone in the country. My question to you was and still is, does self-reporting make them less wrong?

You've had two starting QBs in the last four years who have been the source of these infractions. The common excuses for those are: "Smith only got $500", and "Pryor paid the money back". The point is, they are still doing the same thing everyone else is....cheating is cheating.

enigmaax wrote:

Writerbuckeye wrote: Way to totally miss the point.

Congrats.

Trueblue was comparing Alabama's cheating with infractions at Ohio State. Now please tell me how long Ohio State was on probation for any violations, or how many games they had to forfeit.

Then get back to me about whether it was a good comparison or not.

OSU leads the country in violations. That is #1, the most infractions. It doesn't matter whether there was probation or forfeited games, we aren't talking about punishment. I didn't say that OSU had more severe infractions, but they have the most of anyone in the country. My question to you was and still is, does self-reporting make them less wrong?

You've had two starting QBs in the last four years who have been the source of these infractions. The common excuses for those are: "Smith only got $500", and "Pryor paid the money back". The point is, they are still doing the same thing everyone else is....cheating is cheating.

No. It's not.

And apparently the NCAA doesn't think so, either.

You're wrong.

So, basically.......since OSU turns themselves in, its O.K.? I guess that gives them more excuse to break the rules. I guess they might as well keep committing secondary vilolations since all they have to do is report it. Wow, way to teach schools a lesson. As long as you report it, you might as well do it, since it gives you a upper hand in recruiting.

darbypitcher22 wrote: wow... that's unbelieveable...

the NCAA could put down just about everybody that's anybody in major college football/basketball...after seeing what happened after they gave the death penalty to SMU, they'll never do it again. They're afraid to dole out punishment anymore

No they couldn't, because no one has a sizable enough body of evidence in recent years to justify putting the program down (except for one).

It's difficult to understand exactly how corrupt major college football was during the 70s and 80s, specifically within the Big 8 and the SWC. SMU was made an example of, but really, it could have been pretty much any program in those conferences that was put down. The long-standing rumor has been that Craig James took a pay cut going from SMU to pro football; whether that's a true or just a reference to SMU players being paid is something that only a small number of people truly know.

If the NCAA is looking at a program that has engaged in a clear pattern of major violations, ESPECIALLY after landing on major probation, it is their job to put the program down. Bammer qualifies as such a program. That the NCAA didn't do it is basically handing the inmates the keys to the asylum....they'll never come down hard on a program again.

cats gone wild wrote: So, basically.......since OSU turns themselves in, its O.K.? I guess that gives them more excuse to break the rules. I guess they might as well keep committing secondary vilolations since all they have to do is report it. Wow, way to teach schools a lesson. As long as you report it, you might as well do it, since it gives you a upper hand in recruiting.

It doesn't work that way. A continuous pattern of secondary violations is in itself a major violation since it can fall into that category of "lack of institutional control".

The NCAA usually doesn't punish secondary violations because it's more of a tool used by the schools themselves to demonstrate that they're diligent about following the rules. But they're not going to look the other way if a school has 20 secondary violations in multiple successive seasons.

NNN wrote: The NCAA usually doesn't punish secondary violations because it's more of a tool used by the schools themselves to demonstrate that they're diligent about following the rules. But they're not going to look the other way if a school has 20 secondary violations in multiple successive seasons.

Um, the OSU athletic department has had 375 rules violations since 2000. That is an average of almost 40 per year, but they get the "payback" option generally.

cats gone wild wrote: So, basically.......since OSU turns themselves in, its O.K.? I guess that gives them more excuse to break the rules. I guess they might as well keep committing secondary vilolations since all they have to do is report it. Wow, way to teach schools a lesson. As long as you report it, you might as well do it, since it gives you a upper hand in recruiting.

Still bitter about losing to Penn State, a team that cannot even win the slow prodding Big Ten?

Geux Tigers? LOL

enigmaax wrote:

NNN wrote: The NCAA usually doesn't punish secondary violations because it's more of a tool used by the schools themselves to demonstrate that they're diligent about following the rules. But they're not going to look the other way if a school has 20 secondary violations in multiple successive seasons.

Um, the OSU athletic department has had 375 rules violations since 2000. That is an average of almost 40 per year, but they get the "payback" option generally.

Thanks enigmaax for being one of the smart posters. As I was saying, if you get away with it time and time again......why not keep doing it? Getting top players by cheating brings revenue.

enigmaax wrote: Um, the OSU athletic department has had 375 rules violations since 2000. That is an average of almost 40 per year, but they get the "payback" option generally.

Far be it from me to defend OSU, but they also have something like 36 athletic programs while most schools have around 20.

And by lumping everything together under "athletic department as a whole", it prevents anyone from knowing if football had 100 of those 375 or whether they had 10 and fencing had 150.

NNN wrote:

enigmaax wrote: Um, the OSU athletic department has had 375 rules violations since 2000. That is an average of almost 40 per year, but they get the "payback" option generally.

Far be it from me to defend OSU, but they also have something like 36 athletic programs while most schools have around 20.

And by lumping everything together under "athletic department as a whole", it prevents anyone from knowing if football had 100 of those 375 or whether they had 10 and fencing had 150.

Thanks for adding a bit of factual sanity to this topic.

Those violations aren't all football. Far from it. If that were the case, we'd be seeing further action, I'm sure.

And the fact that all those violations are NOT just football is further evidence that the original post was BOGUS for including Ohio State to begin with. If you want to talk about cheating to win a title, stick to the SEC -- and include their little game of oversigning and booting players while you're at it.

All of it shows a "win at all costs" attitude that isn't as prevalent in other conferences. I don't see any other conferences with as many members as the SEC on probation OR oversigning players to the tune of one extra recruiting class in a four year period, which is what Alabama did.

Trueblue is just rattling chains, I thought it was pretty obvious why he lumped OSU in the fray...eh, whatever.

Just out of curiosity though when speaking on secondary violations, does anyone know what they are? Point is, some of these I'm willing to bet are so obscure and little known that were it not for such oversight and due dilligence that they would have gone un-noticed and in fact not even breeched by the NCAA as they'd be considered non-issues. But here we are talking about a recruit that got a ball point pen with a logo on it and a player that borrowed a cd from a coach and never returned it type of bullshit.

gimmee a break.LOL

ytownfootball wrote: Trueblue is just rattling chains, I thought it was pretty obvious why he lumped OSU in the fray...eh, whatever.

Just out of curiosity though when speaking on secondary violations, does anyone know what they are? Point is, some of these I'm willing to bet are so obscure and little known that were it not for such oversight and due dilligence that they would have gone un-noticed and in fact not even breeched by the NCAA as they'd be considered non-issues. But here we are talking about a recruit that got a ball point pen with a logo on it and a player that borrowed a cd from a coach and never returned it type of bullshit.

gimmee a break.LOL

Secondary violations are usually pretty insignificant. For all the crap that Tennessee has taken for their six secondary violations (same as Georgia and Ole Miss), it basically comes down to:
- An intern who updates Twitter referring to a recruit by name
- Two for ESPN cameras capturing Lane Kiffin talking to two recruits
- One involving a fog machine

I honestly don't remember the other two, but the first three are the most major, and you can see how earth-shattering they are.

See, I don't see those as "violations", nor would any rational observer of the game. Secondary vioations are notoriously cited as head scratchers as to their importance/relevance to anything.

So when those who belittle the fact that they are "self reported" and claim their stake atop the soap box I just have to laugh.

cats gone wild wrote:

FatHobbit wrote: . I'd even look it up if I had any clue where to start.

this ^^. Maybe trueblue can help us out. Link?

Most schools have a violation or two:

http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2009/11/lsu_investigating_possible_nca.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1986/10/16/sports/lsu-football-put-on-probation.html

http://www.fanblogs.com/sec/archives/001009.php

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/4926986/

Secondary violations are just that. Secondary. Did you know that if OSU gives cream cheese to a player with his bagel it is a secondary violation?

cats gone wild wrote: Dont talk bad about OSU on a Ohio forum. They wouldnt EVER do anything wrong. Prepare to be clown stomped.

Ignorant fool. Did anyone say, the violations weren't there?

There is a HUGE difference between self reporting minor violations and making the NCAA dig them up.

Surely you aren't so stupid to think minor violations aren't happening all over the country that never are found out about or found but not self reported.

Did your small mind ponder the possibility that Ohio State's compliance office is twice as good as any other school's?

Let me ask you this question swamp dung, what happens on an LSU board when someone outside the swamp makes a negative comment?

FatHobbit wrote:

sleeper wrote:

FatHobbit wrote:

sleeper wrote: What about Michigan? I don't see any payment from their cheating other than sitting home during bowl season and losing annually to Ohio State.

My first reaction was lol.

Did they really cheat though? I know their basketball program was dirty, but I didn't ever hear if anything came out of the football program.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4431717

I knew there were allegations, but I didn't know if anything ever came out of it.

The NCAA is currently investigating the Michigan football program.

NNN wrote:

cats gone wild wrote: So, basically.......since OSU turns themselves in, its O.K.? I guess that gives them more excuse to break the rules. I guess they might as well keep committing secondary vilolations since all they have to do is report it. Wow, way to teach schools a lesson. As long as you report it, you might as well do it, since it gives you a upper hand in recruiting.

It doesn't work that way. A continuous pattern of secondary violations is in itself a major violation since it can fall into that category of "lack of institutional control".

The NCAA usually doesn't punish secondary violations because it's more of a tool used by the schools themselves to demonstrate that they're diligent about following the rules. But they're not going to look the other way if a school has 20 secondary violations in multiple successive seasons.

WRONG. "lack of institution control" is a MAJOR VIOLATION. "Lack of institutional control" means violations aren't being found and aren't being reported.

The definition of "lack of institutional control" means (1) There are not proper systems in place to discover violations. (2) Systems are not in place to improve compliance when violations are found. (3) Failure to investigate when violations are suspected. (4) There is not a person of power/importance heading compliance office and there is not a sufficient staff in place to find violations.

Obviously Ohio State is meeting all areas of complicance better than most athletic departments.

Who gives a shit.

OSU owns Michigan.

OSU owns another BCS trophy.

cats gone wild wrote: So, basically.......since OSU turns themselves in, its O.K.? I guess that gives them more excuse to break the rules. I guess they might as well keep committing secondary vilolations since all they have to do is report it. Wow, way to teach schools a lesson. As long as you report it, you might as well do it, since it gives you a upper hand in recruiting.

LSU is a minor player in NCAA Athletics. LSU fields 18 sports teams, Ohio State fields THIRTY-FIVE sports teams.

Sports that Ohio State fields teams for, that LSU DOES NOT:

Field Hockey
Men's Volleyball
Men's Ice Hockey
Women's Ice Hockey
Men's Gymnastics
Men's Soccer
Men's Fencing
Women's Fencing
Men's Lacrosse
Women's Lacrosse
Men's Pistol
Women's Pistol
Men's Rifle
Women's Rifle
Women's Rowing
Synchronized Swimming
Wrestling

That's SEVENTEEN MORE sports that Ohio State's compliance office has to worry about. That's SEVENTEEN MORE sports that Ohio State has that can have NCAA violations.

Trueblue23 wrote:

LMAO.........amazing how NO ONE has replied to the video Trueblue23 posted........I wonder why?:rolleyes:

rock_knutne wrote:

Trueblue23 wrote:

LMAO.........amazing how NO ONE has replied to the video Trueblue23 posted........I wonder why?:rolleyes:

At my highschool kids in the band got a credit for it, I didn't get one for playing football, but ESPN didn't show up to do a special on the band kids getting credit for being in the band.

bases_loaded wrote:

rock_knutne wrote:

Trueblue23 wrote:

LMAO.........amazing how NO ONE has replied to the video Trueblue23 posted........I wonder why?:rolleyes:

At my highschool kids in the band got a credit for it, I didn't get one for playing football, but ESPN didn't show up to do a special on the band kids getting credit for being in the band.

You're kidding, right? You're comparing band/music to a football course? That's laughable!