The National Anthem

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Dr Winston O'Boogie's avatar

Dr Winston O'Boogie

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1,799 posts
Sep 28, 2017 12:51 PM
Automatik;1873886 wrote:Absolutely not. The definition of a "keyboard warrior."
Sep 28, 2017 12:51pm
OSH's avatar

OSH

Kosh B'Gosh

4,145 posts
Sep 28, 2017 12:51 PM
justincredible;1873842 wrote:I mean, players get fines for wearing the wrong kind of shoes. I'm pretty sure the league could start fining players and the union wouldn't be able to stop it.
The shoes are actually written as a policy though. (Page 6)

It's clearly written much stricter than the anthem "suggestion."
Sep 28, 2017 12:51pm
P

ppaw1999

Senior Member

344 posts
Sep 28, 2017 1:03 PM
Sep 28, 2017 1:03pm
Q

QuakerOats

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8,740 posts
Sep 28, 2017 1:27 PM
Dr Winston O'Boogie;1873876 wrote:And here we have a microcosm of what is wrong in our public dialogue. If you disagree with someone else's point of view, don't debate it like a gentleman. Call them a "whiny *****". Quaker, I'm sure you'd have the courage to call one of these NFL players that to his face, right?

It's a meme.



And if you refer back to all 12 pages of this thread you will find multiple posts I made wherein I was openly debating the topic at hand and contributing to the dialogue. But you know that.
Sep 28, 2017 1:27pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

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9,206 posts
Sep 28, 2017 1:41 PM
Trump said today that owners won't stand up to players and for the anthem because they are "afraid of them."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-nfl-owners-scared-players-133744654.html

I agree with him only part way.....they ARE afraid....but not of the players. They are afraid of being labeled and crucified as insensitive, rich, white, racists....which would be all over the media if they actually stood up for themselves and their business.
Sep 28, 2017 1:41pm
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Laley23

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Sep 28, 2017 2:51 PM
Boy, these protests have spread to the entire spectrum of TV!!! Incredible.

Every single returning show saw a drop of at least 10% Y/Y and as much as 50%.

Every sports is losing viewers, but TV in general is losing more. People aren't tuning out because of this, that's just dumb. People are tuning out because TV as a business in general is struggling.
Sep 28, 2017 2:51pm
Automatik's avatar

Automatik

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14,632 posts
Sep 28, 2017 2:57 PM
Because streaming
Sep 28, 2017 2:57pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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Sep 28, 2017 3:05 PM
Automatik;1873929 wrote:Because streaming
Yep. Coincided with our generation being the golden generation for TV. Well, we are getting older and watching much less TV overall in our lives.
Sep 28, 2017 3:05pm
K

kizer permanente

Senior Member

667 posts
Sep 28, 2017 3:11 PM
Laley23;1873931 wrote:Yep. Coincided with our generation being the golden generation for TV. Well, we are getting older and watching much less TV overall in our lives.
Interestingly, this is the golden age of tv though. There's never been so many different and equally good shows to watch.
Sep 28, 2017 3:11pm
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Laley23

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Sep 28, 2017 3:17 PM
kizer permanente;1873933 wrote:Interestingly, this is the golden age of tv though. There's never been so many different and equally good shows to watch.
This kinda started in the mid 2000s. While it is still true for TV itself, it is not for the generation targeted during the rise. We are all getting to old to watch TV all the time.

The generations following us (I'm siding with X vs Y, for the record, as a 31yo) grew up with so much to choose from they didn't make appointment TV. Everyone has DVR. They have Netflix streaking etc. Our generation was the last to really have appointment TV and watching stuff at least w/in 24 hrs if you DVR.
Sep 28, 2017 3:17pm
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kizer permanente

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667 posts
Sep 28, 2017 3:34 PM
Laley23;1873935 wrote:This kinda started in the mid 2000s. While it is still true for TV itself, it is not for the generation targeted during the rise. We are all getting to old to watch TV all the time.

The generations following us (I'm siding with X vs Y, for the record, as a 31yo) grew up with so much to choose from they didn't make appointment TV. Everyone has DVR. They have Netflix streaking etc. Our generation was the last to really have appointment TV and watching stuff at least w/in 24 hrs if you DVR.
Good points. We only ever watch one show (GoT) live. The rest is whenever we get to it. I try to watch sports live still also.
Sep 28, 2017 3:34pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

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9,206 posts
Sep 28, 2017 4:31 PM
Laley23;1873925 wrote:Boy, these protests have spread to the entire spectrum of TV!!! Incredible.

Every single returning show saw a drop of at least 10% Y/Y and as much as 50%.

Every sports is losing viewers, but TV in general is losing more. People aren't tuning out because of this, that's just dumb. People are tuning out because TV as a business in general is struggling.
Purely anecdotal, and I don’t know if it affects anyone else but my wife and I have gradually pulled back from broadcast TV simply because of the gratuitous injection of social and political agendas into everything from dramas to sitcoms. Up and till recently, I would still watch the news and late night TV, but we watch very little of that anymore because of Trump and the derangement syndrome he has spawned. We still watch sports( but not sports commentary for the same above reasons)... but now ...ugh !

Just stop....
Sep 28, 2017 4:31pm
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fish82

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4,111 posts
Sep 28, 2017 4:56 PM
Laley23;1873925 wrote:Boy, these protests have spread to the entire spectrum of TV!!! Incredible.

Every single returning show saw a drop of at least 10% Y/Y and as much as 50%.

Every sports is losing viewers, but TV in general is losing more. People aren't tuning out because of this, that's just dumb. People are tuning out because TV as a business in general is struggling.
Agreed...still, at the end of the day you were pretty adamant that NFL ratings weren't down at all regardless.

I get that you're inclined to stick up for your industry and all, but I'm not sure why you picked that hill to die on, when the numbers were right there the whole time.
Sep 28, 2017 4:56pm
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gut

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15,058 posts
Sep 28, 2017 5:05 PM
Laley23;1873935 wrote:This kinda started in the mid 2000s. While it is still true for TV itself, it is not for the generation targeted during the rise. We are all getting to old to watch TV all the time.
They track legal streaming and time shifting (DVR and on-demand). I don't know what those numbers are, but I do know the NFL, and live sports in general, is fairly immune to that.

I think the NFL's bigger problem is it's boring. They've corrupted the ability to play defense pursuing casual fans and the fantasy football player. Fantasy seems like it has lost a lot of steam....and the audience is slowing going back to its core, which is slowly leaving the game because it's just not that good any more.

The officiating is beyond horrible. No one knows what a catch is. The NFL has a lot of problems, and the kneeling thing certainly isn't going to help.
Sep 28, 2017 5:05pm
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Laley23

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Sep 28, 2017 5:22 PM
fish82;1873944 wrote:Agreed...still, at the end of the day you were pretty adamant that NFL ratings weren't down at all regardless.

I get that you're inclined to stick up for your industry and all, but I'm not sure why you picked that hill to die on, when the numbers were right there the whole time.
Didnt mean it to come across that way. Obviously the NFL was way down last year, though now that Nielsen can rate out of home viewing (bars, etc), it came to basically even with 2015 (not sure if they rated 2015 with that metric though). I don't think they will be down much this year Y/Y though. I don't think the protesting is affecting the numbers at all.
Sep 28, 2017 5:22pm
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Laley23

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Sep 28, 2017 8:29 PM
Like what the Bears and Pack did today. Hopefully we see unity like that from all 32 teams (and fans) this week.
Sep 28, 2017 8:29pm
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ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Sep 28, 2017 8:34 PM
What’d they do?
Sep 28, 2017 8:34pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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Sep 28, 2017 8:36 PM
ernest_t_bass;1873964 wrote:What’d they do?
Rodgers called for the entire stadium to link arms (they didn't, but a good number did). All players on both teams stood and linked arms.
Sep 28, 2017 8:36pm
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O-Trap

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14,994 posts
Sep 28, 2017 8:47 PM
I regret reading this whole thread.

  1. Kaepernick started kneeling as opposed to sitting because he sat down with a retired Green Beret (who spent a year as a longsnapper in the NFL) and listened to what the vet had to say. That Army vet then agreed to stand next to Kaepernick during the anthem. He insisted on standing, because of his background, but he was happy to do so next to a kneeling Kaepernick. (link)
    -
  2. With all the complaints on why people take such issue with Antifa and the protesters who have blocked roadways, reasoning that they weren't peaceful or that they were obstructive, it baffles me that there's this much outrage over it.

    They've been peaceful.
    They've been still.
    They've been quiet.
    They've been unobstructive.
    They've put themselves in a position where people aren't ignoring them.

    That's about as good as it gets in terms of a protest. I mean, if you prefer that they protest a societal or widespread issue in a manner that doesn't upset your delicate sensibilities or force you to acknowledge it, then I'm not sure you know how protests work, but if that's the case, I'd encourage you to take this one as a win.
    -
  3. The NFL and respective teams have been supportive since the beginning. (link)(link)
    -
  4. This is hardly a long-standing tradition in the NFL. While players have always been allowed to BE on the sidelines for the national anthem (ie, it was never against policy, and it was practiced fairly frequently, as I read), there was never anything officially requiring it prior to 2009. (link)
    -
  5. There is no mandate requiring players to stand for the anthem, and there are no mandates for penalties for failure to do so. However, the NFL does retain the right to hand down fines at their discretion. (link)
    -
  6. If you just can't help yourself or can't otherwise formulate a reasonable position without wrapping yourself in the stars and stripes and "defending the honor of the military," then at least acknowledge that military personnel don't even all agree with you, because they don't all agree with each other. Some of them side with Kaepernick. Others side against Kaepernick. So let's cut the shit and stop pretending this is pro-service members vs. anti-service members. (link)(link)(link)
    -
  7. There is no good reason to use "the military" (as though it were some homogeneous, mindless monolith) as a pawn in any argument. Again, the military is comprised of individuals with their own thoughts, views, and beliefs. The views among the military personnel and veterans are different enough that you don't get to paint them with a broad brush and claim to be "pro-military." They're individuals. Let each one speak for himself. They don't need your help, and in many cases, they're done a disservice when people try to speak for them. (link)
    -
  8. The flag (henceforth known as "skycloth" or "sky cloth" because a few of you fuckers are likely extra-delicate snowflakes about it, and I feel like trolling you) is a symbol. And there is no officially stated entity or topic for which it stands (sans "the republic" in the pledge). As such, much of the disagreement is over what sky cloth "stands for." Some have said that it stands for the military, but technically, there is nothing official about that position. It's just a commonly held, yet personal, position. Others believe it stands for freedom and the equal treatment of all citizens under it, but in the same way, there's nothing official about that position. It's also just a commonly held, yet personal, position. Let's stop pretending that what sky cloth means to us as individuals is the assumed meaning of sky cloth for everyone else, shall we?
    -
  9. I know, I know. Fucking TL;DR.
Sep 28, 2017 8:47pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Sep 28, 2017 9:02 PM
HitsRus;1873799 wrote:Absolute truth, and they should for the good of the game.
Or ...

... they should do whatever the hell they want or think is best ...

... because it's their business, and they probably have more people looking into the most lucrative course of action than you do.
Sep 28, 2017 9:02pm
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iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

6,360 posts
Sep 28, 2017 9:07 PM
Thank goodness teams have decided it was dumb. Just one big fuck Trump. Now all stand together and forget about this shit.


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Sep 28, 2017 9:07pm
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BRF

Senior Member

8,748 posts
Sep 28, 2017 10:55 PM
O-Trap: you regret reading this thread?

This thread is a great read.

It helps me understand how Trump got elected.

I liked #9, btw.
Sep 28, 2017 10:55pm
S

superman

Senior Member

3,582 posts
Sep 28, 2017 11:18 PM
Sep 28, 2017 11:18pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Sep 29, 2017 4:34 AM
BRF;1873976 wrote: It helps me understand how Trump got elected.
Yep, basically downtrodden white people are tired of being told about how white privilege gave them a nicer trailer.
Sep 29, 2017 4:34am
K

kizer permanente

Senior Member

667 posts
Sep 29, 2017 6:22 AM
gut;1873990 wrote:Yep, basically downtrodden white people are tired of being told about how white privilege gave them a nicer trailer.
Not that you're wrong, because it's pretty on point with how white people in poverty feel, but this is also what perpetuates the hate/divide in our country. Since privilege (not just white privilege) goes way beyond materialistic things. So it's pretty egregious to suggest people are telling whites in poverty they're privileged for having a nicer trailer. No one is saying that or ever has.
Sep 29, 2017 6:22am