sleeper;1812859 wrote:It's hard to really get good data on that stuff because its not tracked. So we have to go off anecdotal evidence and subjectivity which is a clusterfuck.

Even if all 23 died while obeying cops orders, it's still a rounding error of 0 of a fraction of a decimal point. The data just doesn't support the narrative. Facts are racist.

It's really hard to get data cuz it's not tracked. But I throw it out there as fact. lol that's the sleeper way.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812858 wrote:And you literally are wrong. There's a few things they can do. Namely better suitability tests and entrance exams to join the force. Bi-yearly evaluations from psychologists (since it's pretty easy for a cops mental state to change). There's things they can do. Does the union want to? Of course not.

Does the public want to pay for all those things?

Of course not.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812860 wrote:It's really hard to get data cuz it's not tracked. But I throw it out there as fact. lol that's the sleeper way.

Some data is tracked; whether or not someone complied with police orders is not tracked.

I sure hope you are being obtuse on purpose because you can't seem to recognize the difference between objective and subjective data.

sleeper;1812861 wrote:Does the public want to pay for all those things?

Of course not.

So just because no one wants to pay for psych exams they should just allow mentally unstable cops to serve and continually kill innocent people?

sleeper;1812861 wrote:Does the public want to pay for all those things?

Of course not.

Does the public want to pay for 66% of pork they pay for? What's your point?
my point is you're full of shit and have always been and have no problem passing total shit off as fact. I at least provided a DOJ study for you. You can't be bothered with facts you love to claim

BTW; 23 out of 40 million is about .0000575%. LOL

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812864 wrote:Does the public want to pay for 66% of pork they pay for? What's your point?
my point is you're full of shit and have always been and have no problem passing total shit off as fact. I at least provided a DOJ study for you. You can't be bothered with facts you love to claim

Right...

If you are really interested in facts, you'd realize this problem is barely on a blip on the radar of relevancy.

sleeper;1812865 wrote:BTW; 23 out of 40 million is about .0000575%. LOL

Btw.. 23 out of 40 million is meaningless bc you pulled it out of your ass just like everything else you post

thavoice;1812863 wrote:So just because no one wants to pay for psych exams they should just allow mentally unstable cops to serve and continually kill innocent people?

No they shouldn't but you'd be hard pressed to convince people to pay more for their police force. They already have to be mentally examined before joining the force in the first place. I'd also argue that mentally unstable cops are not a relevant reason why people are getting shot by the police. This is why you narratives are bad; they don't actually solve real problems they just focus on entirely irrelevant causes because facts are racist.

sleeper;1812868 wrote:No they shouldn't but you'd be hard pressed to convince people to pay more for their police force. They already have to be mentally examined before joining the force in the first place. I'd also argue that mentally unstable cops are not a relevant reason why people are getting shot by the police. This is why you narratives are bad; they don't actually solve real problems they just focus on entirely irrelevant causes because facts are racist.

It's similar to the more education funding = better education argument which has been proven to be bullshit.

Even if there is more funding for this testing there will still be the rare occurrence (like there is now), where a cop unfairly shoots a black man. The same shit will happen. The media and BLM will get their panties in a bunch, people like zwick will eat it up and we still won't see the real core of the issue being addressed which is poor family structure due to 70% of the households being single parent.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812867 wrote:Btw.. 23 out of 40 million is meaningless bc you pulled it out of your ass just like everything else you post

The data is out there if you want to find it.

They are rounded estimates yes, but they are estimates for police encounters that range from 40 million to 70 million per year. 1,000 is the most people killed by cops in a year and 100 is how many unarmed men were shot in 2015. 23% is the number of unarmed blacks killed by cops in 2015.

I used the numbers that when hand picked to favor the BLM narrative, they still have nowhere near the relevant statistical threshold to be considered a legitimate problem. Yes, some people were unjustly killed by police and even one is too many, but the reality is the problem deserves nowhere near the level of outrage/conversation that is being demanded.

like_that;1812871 wrote:It's similar to the more education funding = better education argument which has been proven to be bullshit.

Even if there is more funding for this testing there will still be the rare occurrence (like there is now), where a cop unfairly shoots a black man. The same shit will happen. The media and BLM will get their panties in a bunch, people like zwick will eat it up and we still won't see the real core of the issue being addressed which is poor family structure due to 70% of the households being single parent.

you use faulty logic. You're assuming if the poor black men have dad's then the white cops won't be afraid of the mean black men anymore. This has come from stereotypes of black men handed down generation from generation. Them having a daddy isn't going to help a ***** cop not be scared of him.

like_that;1812871 wrote:It's similar to the more education funding = better education argument which has been proven to be bullshit.

Even if there is more funding for this testing there will still be the rare occurrence (like there is now), where a cop unfairly shoots a black man. The same shit will happen. The media and BLM will get their panties in a bunch, people like zwick will eat it up and we still won't see the real core of the issue being addressed which is poor family structure due to 70% of the households being single parent.

Because funding is a problem that is much easier to talk about rather than looking inward and going "My child isn't doing well in school because I am a failure as a parent". The narrative of lack of funding for inner city schools HURTS the inner city kids because even if you give into the narrative and provide more funding the problem won't be solved.

You can blame the media, liberals, and people like Zwick for the regressive race baiting country we've created hell bent on never actually solving problems in order to have a base you can manipulate for political support. It's absolutely disgusting and I don't know how you sleep at night.

sleeper;1812872 wrote:The data is out there if you want to find it.

They are rounded estimates yes, but they are estimates for police encounters that range from 40 million to 70 million per year. 1,000 is the most people killed by cops in a year and 100 is how many unarmed men were shot in 2015. 23% is the number of unarmed blacks killed by cops in 2015.

I used the numbers that when hand picked to favor the BLM narrative, they still have nowhere near the relevant statistical threshold to be considered a legitimate problem. Yes, some people were unjustly killed by police and even one is too many, but the reality is the problem deserves nowhere near the level of outrage/conversation that is being demanded.

And as we've talked before, it goes beyond people being killed. It's the overreach and use of force used by police that's the issue here. BLM exists bc blacks have forced used on them 3 times he rate of anyone else as referenced on the DOJ study.

Dude... just bc you feel it isn't a problem bc it doesn't happen enough, doesn't make it so.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812873 wrote:you use faulty logic. You're assuming if the poor black men have dad's then the white cops won't be afraid of the mean black men anymore. This has come from stereotypes of black men handed down generation from generation. Them having a daddy isn't going to help a ***** cop not be scared of him.

Even in an environment where the police force is 100% black, you'd still have the same problems you have now. This has nothing to do with white cops being afraid of black people; this is divisive rhetoric that only exacerbates the problem rather than solve the problem.

sleeper;1812877 wrote:Even in an environment where the police force is 100% black, you'd still have the same problems you have now. This has nothing to do with white cops being afraid of black people; this is divisive rhetoric that only exacerbates the problem rather than solve the problem.

it has EVERYTHING to do with white cops being afraid of black men. That's the reason the deputy approached the car with his gun unholsterd to begin with. You're a liar if you think stereotypes and prejudices aren't why police approach black men differently.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812878 wrote:it has EVERYTHING to do with white cops being afraid of black men. That's the reason the deputy approached the car with his gun unholsterd to begin with. You're a liar if you think stereotypes and prejudices aren't why police approach black men differently.

Exactly. That is why you hear the cops in that chopper say 'he looks like a bad dude' when all they see is a black dude walking with his hands up.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812873 wrote:you use faulty logic. You're assuming if the poor black men have dad's then the white cops won't be afraid of the mean black men anymore. This has come from stereotypes of black men handed down generation from generation. Them having a daddy isn't going to help a ***** cop not be scared of him.

Education and discipline is faulty? You can look at each demographic and the higher the % of 2 parent households go, the better off that demographic is. It's pretty simple logic. If you make sure your child focuses on education and you discipline your children he/she is most likely to treat a cop respectfully and not do anything to make a cop nervous. More importantly the child will more than likely stay away from crime, thus there are less encounters with cops to begin with. Keep playing victim though!

Also lol you at being a fake tough guy calling a cop a *****. Typical smug ass zwick acting righteous and thinking he can do a better job. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. I'm willing to bet you would cave after talking such a big game. Why don't you go to Chicago and ask to do a police ride along with the cops in the south side? You can then come back and let us know how these cops are pussies.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812876 wrote:And as we've talked before, it goes beyond people being killed. It's the overreach and use of force used by police that's the issue here. BLM exists bc blacks have forced used on them 3 times he rate of anyone else as referenced on the DOJ study.

Dude... just bc you feel it isn't a problem bc it doesn't happen enough, doesn't make it so.

Where is this DOJ study that you keep referencing? Does the DOJ account for use of force when controlled with relevant data points like number of police encounters or violent crime data?

Showing a stat that says blacks receive force at 3 times the rate is a data point not a conclusion of anything. You have to provide evidence that the rate of 3 times the force is because cops are racist(or whatever conclusion you are trying to make with that data).

For example, that's like saying the justice system is sexist because prisons are 90% men. I can show the stat that 90% of the prison population is male, but I can't show you the evidence that the justice system is sexist therefore my conclusion is invalid. Do you understand yet?

like_that;1812881 wrote:Education and discipline is faulty? You can look at each demographic and the higher the % of 2 parent households go, the better off that demographic is. It's pretty simple logic. If you make sure your child focuses on education and you discipline your children he/she is most likely to treat a cop respectfully and not do anything to make a cop nervous. More importantly the child will more than likely stay away from crime, thus there are less encounters with cops to begin with. Keep playing victim though!

Also lol you at being a fake tough guy calling a cop a *****. Typical smug ass zwick acting righteous and thinking he can do a better job. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. I'm willing to bet you would cave after talking such a big game. Why don't you go to Chicago and ask to do a police ride along with the cops in the south side? You can then come back and let us know how these cops are pussies.

Lol dude we've been thru this .. you're not wrong in that the black community would be better off with 2 parent households. No one would ever deny that. But it has nothing to do with the stereotypes black men have as being more violent and them having a dad isn't going to change that stereotype. So it's not going to help THIS situation.

sleeper;1812882 wrote:Where is this DOJ study that you keep referencing? Does the DOJ account for use of force when controlled with relevant data points like number of police encounters or violent crime data?

Showing a stat that says blacks receive force at 3 times the rate is a data point not a conclusion of anything. You have to provide evidence that the rate of 3 times the force is because cops are racist(or whatever conclusion you are trying to make with that data).

For example, that's like saying the justice system is sexist because prisons are 90% men. I can show the stat that 90% of the prison population is male, but I can't show you the evidence that the justice system is sexist therefore my conclusion is invalid. Do you understand yet?

It's the one I already referenced you earlier in this thread that you obviously never read you lazy asshole lol

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812878 wrote:it has EVERYTHING to do with white cops being afraid of black men. That's the reason the deputy approached the car with his gun unholsterd to begin with. You're a liar if you think stereotypes and prejudices aren't why police approach black men differently.

So we now draw conclusions based on anecdotal evidence?

I'm not entirely sure which case you are talking about. You can approach a car with a gun out if you pull the license plate and the person has a warrant for violent crime/has a history, etc. Drawing conclusions based on limited evidence is a one way ticket to a garbage society. Facts matter.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812885 wrote:It's the one I already referenced you earlier in this thread that you obviously never read you lazy asshole lol

Okay, can you repost it? I'd like to see the evidence they use to draw their conclusions. My guess is they handwaved over any link between racism/mistreatment and just focused on a data set that looks bad in a vacuum.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812883 wrote:Lol dude we've been thru this .. you're not wrong in that the black community would be better off with 2 parent households. No one would ever deny that. But it has nothing to do with the stereotypes black men have as being more violent and them having a dad isn't going to change that stereotype. So it's not going to help THIS situation.

It doesnt change over night but if generations and generations pass and black men are raised in two parent households with more discipline I would suspect they would start committing less crimes. If they start committing much less violent crime then the stereotypes would change as well and the problem is abated.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp08.pdf

and no you're right, it doesn't prove implicitly that his happens bc of the stereotypes black men face as such data doesn't and cannot exist unless you ask cops if they used forced bc he was black and he had fears of black men.