like_that;1812881 wrote: Also lol you at being a fake tough guy calling a cop a *****. Typical smug ass zwick acting righteous and thinking he can do a better job. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. I'm willing to bet you would cave after talking such a big game. Why don't you go to Chicago and ask to do a police ride along with the cops in the south side? You can then come back and let us know how these cops are pussies.

I'd pay money to see this. No bullet proof vest either for Zwick and Zwick can tell the police how to handle each scenario at each police stop.

Come on Zwick, since you know so much about how police should do their job, you could really help solve the problem! LOL

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812878 wrote:it has EVERYTHING to do with white cops being afraid of black men. That's the reason the deputy approached the car with his gun unholsterd to begin with. You're a liar if you think stereotypes and prejudices aren't why police approach black men differently.

What about when the cop is black? Is that still about prejudices and stereotypes?

FatHobbit;1812893 wrote:What about when the cop is black? Is that still about prejudices and stereotypes?

Depends.. do you think stereotypes and prejudice only exist outside of races or do you think people can believe stereotypes of their own race?

sleeper;1812892 wrote:I'd pay money to see this. No bullet proof vest either for Zwick and Zwick can tell the police how to handle each scenario at each police stop.

Come on Zwick, since you know so much about how police should do their job, you could really help solve the problem! LOL

Zwick wouldn't do it, because as I said earlier he would rather just bitch and moan at the narrative instead of providing solutions that would actually work.

My favorite part about all this logic from liberals like zwick are 95% of them criticizing cops and blaming them have never been cops themselves. Essentially they are “outsiders” to that community, yet somehow their opinions on cops and how cops should do their jobs are 100% credible. On the flip side, when white people I have ideas to fix the black community (that don’t fit their crybaby victim agenda), we immediately have no credibility because we are white and never will understand what the black community goes thru. The hypocrisy brings the lulz.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812894 wrote:Depends.. do you think stereotypes and prejudice only exist outside of races or do you think people can believe stereotypes of their own race?

When you are a cop and blacks commit most of the crimes (as we already know they statistically do) and are most likely to not comply with the officers, after awhile they are conditioned to be on their toes, especially in shitty inner city neighborhoods. It's no different than a solider being deployed and being conditioned to be very alert when he is around middle easterners.

This always reverts back to what I have been saying, family structure will lead to less crimes and as a result less interaction with the cops. In time the entire culture between cops and black communities will change due to less crimes being committed. It's really not difficult logic.

like_that;1812897 wrote:When you are a cop and blacks commit most of the crimes (as we already know they statistically do) and are most likely to not comply with the officers, after awhile they are conditioned to be on their toes, especially in shitty inner city neighborhoods. It's no different than a solider being deployed and being conditioned to be very alert when he is around middle easterners.

This always reverts back to what I have been saying, family structure will lead to less crimes and as a result less interaction with the cops. In time the entire culture between cops and black communities will change due to less crimes being committed. It's really not difficult logic.

So are you advocating for social programs to help teach minorities the power of a 2 parent family unit?

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812890 wrote:http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp08.pdf

and no you're right, it doesn't prove implicitly that his happens bc of the stereotypes black men face as such data doesn't and cannot exist unless you ask cops if they used forced bc he was black and he had fears of black men.

Alright. I read the study. Let's also note this study has annual police interactions between 40M and 45M so the numbers weren't pulled out of my ass; they are based on good estimates from a variety of different data points that I've read.

First of all, you are correct it doesn't really prove much, especially what you are trying to defend. I do acknowledge the data of blacks receiving use of force is higher than whites(3.4% blacks, 1.1% whites) and blacks are more likely to be stopped(12% to 4%) but it doesn't draw a strong enough conclusion that the reason is nefarious. In fact, it doesn't really talk at all about circumstances that lead to lease encounters so its hard to tell. I agree that the data may not exist explicitly but before you draw these conclusions you need to prove that connection.

I'll tell you right now you can probably prove that people view people that look differently from them but you are going to be hard pressed to link that to police mistreating blacks purely because of their skin color and not their circumstance. Until that happens, its probably a good idea not to draw these conclusions as fact and try to fix the problem with data that misconstrues the actual problem.

Commander of Awesome;1812898 wrote:So are you advocating for social programs to help teach minorities the power of a 2 parent family unit?

No I am not. I have no idea where you came up with that. Throwing more government at the problem typically doesn't work. However since we are bringing up government, they could also stop voting for shitty politicians who promise them everything, and then do nothing for them because they just want their votes.

I am advocating for leaders in that community to advocate for 2 parent households with a focus on education and discipline. Instead you have race baiters such as BLM, sharpton, pro athletes, etc leading the charge and avoiding core issues that can solve many problems. If you want to have a discussion, then be prepared to look at the mirror instead of playing the victim every time. Playing victim hasn't gotten them anywhere. What's more likely to make a change? More regulations and funding for police, or addressing your own culture issue that leads to many problems?

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812878 wrote:it has EVERYTHING to do with white cops being afraid of black men. That's the reason the deputy approached the car with his gun unholsterd to begin with. You're a liar if you think stereotypes and prejudices aren't why police approach black men differently.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812894 wrote:Depends.. do you think stereotypes and prejudice only exist outside of races or do you think people can believe stereotypes of their own race?

But do you still think it's a white cops fear of black men, when a black cop pulls his gun?

FatHobbit;1812902 wrote:But do you still think it's a white cops fear of black men, when a black cop pulls his gun?

Of course not.
Its still a problem and why BLM exists. What's your point ?

[video] [/video]

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812903 wrote:Of course not.
Its still a problem and why BLM exists. What's your point ?

I think his point that stereotypes about one race are not the main cause of perceived poor police outcomes in the black community.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812903 wrote:Of course not.
Its still a problem and why BLM exists. What's your point ?

Because it's not always white cops that do the shooting

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/08/violence-erupts-in-milwaukee-after-black-police-officers-kills-armed-black-man.php

FatHobbit;1812906 wrote:Because it's not always white cops that do the shooting

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/08/violence-erupts-in-milwaukee-after-black-police-officers-kills-armed-black-man.php

No said it was, just that it happens.

Is it a "stereotype" if blacks are actually more violent and commit more crimes? (As a percentage)


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ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812903 wrote:Of course not.
Its still a problem and why BLM exists. What's your point ?

I have to believe that the black cop thinks black lives matter as much as the protesters, perhaps more in some cases.

iclfan2;1812913 wrote:Is it a "stereotype" if blacks are actually more violent and commit more crimes? (As a percentage)


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Well I don't think there's any doubt they do as a percentage. It's still a predjudice to judge any you come across as a whole.

like_that;1812901 wrote:No I am not. I have no idea where you came up with that. Throwing more government at the problem typically doesn't work. However since we are bringing up government, they could also stop voting for shitty politicians who promise them everything, and then do nothing for them because they just want their votes.

I am advocating for leaders in that community to advocate for 2 parent households with a focus on education and discipline. Instead you have race baiters such as BLM, sharpton, pro athletes, etc leading the charge and avoiding core issues that can solve many problems. If you want to have a discussion, then be prepared to look at the mirror instead of playing the victim every time. Playing victim hasn't gotten them anywhere. What's more likely to make a change? More regulations and funding for police, or addressing your own culture issue that leads to many problems?

I was asking bc you identified that you thought starting with strengthening the family unit and stressing education was the way help. I don't have any argument with that, but how are we going to do so? If not a social program of some kind (or scale) you expect it to come from thin air?

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812915 wrote:Well I don't think there's any doubt they do as a percentage. It's still a predjudice to judge any you come across as a whole.

Probably so. How any of black deaths by cops are from black cops? Not a gotcha question, I really don't know.

Commander of Awesome;1812916 wrote:I was asking bc you identified that you thought starting with strengthening the family unit and stressing education was the way help. I don't have any argument with that, but how are we going to do so? If not a social program of some kind (or scale) you expect it to come from thin air?

I just told you where I would start in that post. It's going to take some self reflection. You can't help people that aren't willing to be helped. People with the platform and credibility within those groups can slowly make a difference by changing the narrative.

like_that;1812919 wrote:I just told you where I would start in that post. It's going to take some self reflection. You can't help people that aren't willing to be helped. People with the platform and credibility within those groups can slowly make a difference by changing the narrative.

That seems pretty pie in the sky IMO. All of minorities in America are going to have to universally "look in the mirror" and decide together as 1 block to adopt the like_that plan for ending racism? Expecting Al Sharpton to no longer act like scumbag Al Sharpton isn't a solution, it's a fantasy.

Who are the minority leaders? Hell, who are the white people leaders? If roles were reversed, who among the whites would need to step up and change the narrative?

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1812915 wrote:Well I don't think there's any doubt they do as a percentage. It's still a predjudice to judge any you come across as a whole.

So then why are white men shot more by cops then blacks? And when cops are more likely to be shot by blacks then shoot blacks, I don't think it is "prejudice" anymore, but statistics.

Also I found this, but not the actual source ". Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers. This is according to a Department of Justice report in 2015 about the Philadelphia Police Department, and is further confirmed that by a study conducted University of Pennsylvania criminologist Greg Ridgeway in 2015 that determined black cops were 3.3 times more likely to fire a gun than other cops at a crime scene. "

iclfan2;1812921 wrote:So then why are white men shot more by cops then blacks? And when cops are more likely to be shot by blacks then shoot blacks, I don't think it is "prejudice" anymore, but statistics.

Also I found this, but not the actual source ". Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers. This is according to a Department of Justice report in 2015 about the Philadelphia Police Department, and is further confirmed that by a study conducted University of Pennsylvania criminologist Greg Ridgeway in 2015 that determined black cops were 3.3 times more likely to fire a gun than other cops at a crime scene. "

as a rate or a total? Bc as a rate they aren't. As a total bc one makes up 13% of the country and the other makes up 64%. Pretty obvious, no?

Not obvious. From the same article:
Some may argue that these statistics are evidence of racist treatment toward blacks, since whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 13 percent of the population. But as Mac Donald writes in The Wall Street Journal, 2009 statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only comprising roughly 15 percent of the population in these counties.

"Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force," writes MacDonald.
MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."


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And I'm not standing on this one articles opinion, but to just blindly throw out prejudice and stereotypes as the reason these deaths happen is a lazy argument.


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