Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Mar 2, 2016 2:17pm
What dumb logic.Mulva;1784325 wrote:I'm confident that we can lose just as well without them.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Mar 2, 2016 2:19pm
Exactly. I like Mack, Schwartz, Benjamin & Gipson but they helped get this team to a 3-13 record last year. I see this team getting much younger, fast.Mulva;1784325 wrote:I'm confident that we can lose just as well without them.
If you're going to sign free agents, get guys that are young (like Schwartz) coming off their rookie contract. If they don't want to be here and don't buy what Hue's preaching, see ya....
like_that
Posts: 26,625
Mar 2, 2016 2:56pm
Give me Schwartz and Mack for a rookie QB coming in. I'm not going to QQ if Gipson is the odd man out. The logic used by Mulva is severely flawed.
Mulva
Posts: 13,650
Mar 2, 2016 4:12pm
It wasn't logic, it was indifference. IDGAF who walks. They haven't given me any reason to care.
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Mar 2, 2016 4:16pm
We suck because we don't have a qb or playmakers.
Losing good players hurts whether we were 16-0 or 0-16
Losing good players hurts whether we were 16-0 or 0-16
Lovejoy1984
Posts: 5,277
Mar 2, 2016 4:21pm
So since it seems 2 QBs have seperated, and that we should be taking one, which QB are you
guys wanting?
Personally, I want Wentz, Goffs size scares me a little bit as it doesn't look like he will be able to add much weight to his frame. Wentz, though he played a lower level of talent, he seems to have "it". He's a great athlete, perfect size for a AFC North QB, and all the arm talent in the world.
That being said, I wouldn't QQ at Goff, just wouldn't be my first choice.
guys wanting?
Personally, I want Wentz, Goffs size scares me a little bit as it doesn't look like he will be able to add much weight to his frame. Wentz, though he played a lower level of talent, he seems to have "it". He's a great athlete, perfect size for a AFC North QB, and all the arm talent in the world.
That being said, I wouldn't QQ at Goff, just wouldn't be my first choice.
iclfan2
Posts: 6,360
Mar 2, 2016 4:52pm
I am in the Wentz camp. Unfortunately, both of these guys are still graded lower than who have come out in recent years. Just not a good qb draft. Hopefully Hue thinks he can mold one of them to fit the offense he wants to run.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Mar 2, 2016 4:58pm
I want to trade down and take the fourth best DE, then grab a qb in the third round.
/derp
Give me Wentz
/derp
Give me Wentz
like_that
Posts: 26,625
Mar 2, 2016 5:17pm
Cool, might as well not discuss the Browns then. I guess come back when the Browns are ever good?Mulva;1784353 wrote:It wasn't logic, it was indifference. IDGAF who walks. They haven't given me any reason to care.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Mar 2, 2016 5:33pm
I feel the same way and it seems like that's Hue Jackson's take on it too....from his comments today. He'd like to keep them but doesn't seem to care if they walk.Mulva;1784353 wrote:It wasn't logic, it was indifference. IDGAF who walks. They haven't given me any reason to care.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Mar 2, 2016 5:34pm
I don't really care if we lose Mack or Schwartz or anyone on the team. The team sucks. I have no clue why Mack/Schwarts are rated so highly when the Browns are absolutely straight dog shit year after year.
I know someone will counter with "wWell, there's some statistics that stats Mack blocks people more than someone else" or whatever bullshit you can come up wtih. Bottom line, with Mack, the Browns suck, without Mack the Browns will suck until we get a fricking QB in there that isn't a piece of garbage. This isn't complicated.
I know someone will counter with "wWell, there's some statistics that stats Mack blocks people more than someone else" or whatever bullshit you can come up wtih. Bottom line, with Mack, the Browns suck, without Mack the Browns will suck until we get a fricking QB in there that isn't a piece of garbage. This isn't complicated.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Mar 2, 2016 5:35pm
As far as QB goes, I'm still on the fence but leaning toward Wentz.
Goff's size is a concern but he has a much better body of work.
Wentz, to me, has more upside but he's hasn't played as much and has had a couple of injuries.
People don't want to hear this but, regardless of who they take, I think McCown is going to be the starter to begin the season and they will ease the rook in.
Goff's size is a concern but he has a much better body of work.
Wentz, to me, has more upside but he's hasn't played as much and has had a couple of injuries.
People don't want to hear this but, regardless of who they take, I think McCown is going to be the starter to begin the season and they will ease the rook in.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Mar 2, 2016 5:38pm
Agreed and reps. I think the coach and the front office see it the same way. That's why I have no issue parting with Joe Thomas. He's a luxury, at this point. This team needs a QB and playmakers. I'm an O-Line guy, who favors the big uglies, but you can plug in guys who can do a serviceable job at the position. You don't need a "top 5 O-Line."sleeper;1784370 wrote:I don't really care if we lose Mack or Schwartz or anyone on the team. The team sucks. I have no clue why Mack/Schwarts are rated so highly when the Browns are absolutely straight dog shit year after year.
I know someone will counter with "wWell, there's some statistics that stats Mack blocks people more than someone else" or whatever bullshit you can come up wtih. Bottom line, with Mack, the Browns suck, without Mack the Browns will suck until we get a fricking QB in there that isn't a piece of garbage. This isn't complicated.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Mar 2, 2016 5:38pm
If McCown is the start, Jackson should be fired and banned from the NFL immediately. You don't draft a top tier QB to have him sit behind a journeyman who's barely above the worst QB in the league. What's Goff going to learn from McCown? How to be mediocre for an entire career and scrape by on teams that have no other option at QB?BR1986FB;1784371 wrote:As far as QB goes, I'm still on the fence but leaning toward Wentz.
Goff's size is a concern but he has a much better body of work.
Wentz, to me, has more upside but he's hasn't played as much and has had a couple of injuries.
People don't want to hear this but, regardless of who they take, I think McCown is going to be the starter to begin the season and they will ease the rook in.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Mar 2, 2016 5:44pm
I don't want to dismiss the OL as not being important but it's pretty clear the Browns have spent so much time building an O-Line that's above average and has completely ignored having talent anywhere else on the offense for way too long.BR1986FB;1784372 wrote:Agreed and reps. I think the coach and the front office see it the same way. That's why I have no issue parting with Joe Thomas. He's a luxury, at this point. This team needs a QB and playmakers. I'm an O-Line guy, who favors the big uglies, but you can plug in guys who can do a serviceable job at the position. You don't need a "top 5 O-Line."
I'm with you on the "battle is in the trenches" philosophy but when does that ever transition into "Okay now we need some skill players to actually make plays, especially offensively". It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the Browns draft a C to replace Mack with their first overall pick instead of getting something useful.
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Mar 2, 2016 5:55pm
I hear ya, but if you continue to let good players walk, soon as you find a good QB you're not going to have good players around him. Which is a problem.sleeper;1784370 wrote:I don't really care if we lose Mack or Schwartz or anyone on the team. The team sucks. I have no clue why Mack/Schwarts are rated so highly when the Browns are absolutely straight dog shit year after year.
I know someone will counter with "wWell, there's some statistics that stats Mack blocks people more than someone else" or whatever bullshit you can come up wtih. Bottom line, with Mack, the Browns suck, without Mack the Browns will suck until we get a fricking QB in there that isn't a piece of garbage. This isn't complicated.
like_that
Posts: 26,625
Mar 2, 2016 6:18pm
This. Just because the team sucks doesn't mean you just let good players walk. Yeah, great plan, the few good players they have hsould be let go. That will help build a stronger roster! LOL at that logic.SportsAndLady;1784377 wrote:I hear ya, but if you continue to let good players walk, soon as you find a good QB you're not going to have good players around him. Which is a problem.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Mar 2, 2016 6:27pm
So exactly what are they supposed to do? Put a gun to their head and tell them "you're not leaving the Browns?" Yeah, they can use a tag but they can't keep them all. Mack has the right to leave if he wants but you're going to give Schwartz $13.7 million for 2016 when you're paying Thomas $8.8 with a $1.2 million prorated bonus?like_that;1784379 wrote:This. Just because the team sucks doesn't mean you just let good players walk. Yeah, great plan, the few good players they have hsould be let go. That will help build a stronger roster! LOL at that logic.
I understand you don't want your best players to walk but that's the price of doing business when you suck ass.
And as sleeper said, I'm not undervaluing the importance of the O-Line because, god knows, I know a lot about that part of the game. The fact of the matter is that this regime seems to feel confident they can move forward without guys who don't want to be here.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Mar 2, 2016 6:30pm
This.sleeper;1784376 wrote:I don't want to dismiss the OL as not being important but it's pretty clear the Browns have spent so much time building an O-Line that's above average and has completely ignored having talent anywhere else on the offense for way too long.
I'm with you on the "battle is in the trenches" philosophy but when does that ever transition into "Okay now we need some skill players to actually make plays, especially offensively". It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the Browns draft a C to replace Mack with their first overall pick instead of getting something useful.
They have spent so much time passing on playmakers to build up the O-Line and other positions. It's a passing league now yet Cleveland GM's must have some "rule" not to look at WR's until the 3rd round or later (unless you're Mangini, and we know how that worked).
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Mar 2, 2016 7:12pm
We also have "Only take a QB at #22" rule.BR1986FB;1784381 wrote:This.
They have spent so much time passing on playmakers to build up the O-Line and other positions. It's a passing league now yet Cleveland GM's must have some "rule" not to look at WR's until the 3rd round or later (unless you're Mangini, and we know how that worked).
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Mar 2, 2016 7:14pm
Mack is what it is, a result of Farmer playing Penis Flickers.BR1986FB;1784380 wrote:So exactly what are they supposed to do? Put a gun to their head and tell them "you're not leaving the Browns?" Yeah, they can use a tag but they can't keep them all. Mack has the right to leave if he wants but you're going to give Schwartz $13.7 million for 2016 when you're paying Thomas $8.8 with a $1.2 million prorated bonus?
I understand you don't want your best players to walk but that's the price of doing business when you suck ass.
And as sleeper said, I'm not undervaluing the importance of the O-Line because, god knows, I know a lot about that part of the game. The fact of the matter is that this regime seems to feel confident they can move forward without guys who don't want to be here.
Schwartz you keep. Not sure anyone respects your oline opinion, you've proven nothing but an being an absolute buffoon when it comes to evaluating oline talent.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Mar 2, 2016 9:21pm
Considering I've played it and coached it....what you got for experience, PFF Armchair Metrics Boy? Oh yeah, you NEVER played the game or coached it at the higher levels I bet. You've been playing "penis flickers", as you call it, on the internet "talkin' bout football!!!" You're SO smart !!! :rolleyes:Commander of Awesome;1784388 wrote:Mack is what it is, a result of Farmer playing Penis Flickers.
Schwartz you keep. Not sure anyone respects your oline opinion, you've proven nothing but an being an absolute buffoon when it comes to evaluating oline talent.
I know the importance of the O-Line. I also know you don't need three Pro Bowl players on it to operate in an efficient manner. Ask Brady, Roethlisberger, Brees, Manning, etc, etc...
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Mar 2, 2016 9:25pm
Also don't need elite wrs to win sbs. Ask Brady/Wilson. /brlogicBR1986FB;1784406 wrote:Considering I've played it and coached it....what you got for experience, PFF Armchair Metrics Boy? Oh yeah, you NEVER played the game or coached it at the higher levels I bet. You've been playing "penis flickers", as you call it, on the internet "talkin' bout football!!!" You're SO smart !!! :rolleyes:
I know the importance of the O-Line. I also know you don't need three Pro Bowl players on it to operate in an efficient manner. Ask Brady, Roethlisberger, Brees, Manning, etc, etc...
Yeah don't need top online to win, but it sure as shit helps. Esp on a team with a young qb. Jesus
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Mar 2, 2016 9:37pm
Who said anything about "elite WR's?" I'd be pleased if they'd get someone over 5'9" who ran solid routes and caught the damn ball....not the Greg Little's, MoMass/Robiskie scrub types.Commander of Awesome;1784407 wrote:Also don't need elite wrs to win sbs. Ask Brady/Wilson. /brlogic
Yeah don't need top online to win, but it sure as shit helps. Esp on a team with a young qb. Jesus
And yeah, I know that having a good O-Line helps the rookie QB but it doesn't have to be elite. They have JT/Bitonio protecting the backside. They can grab serviceable players in the draft/FA.
You can huff & puff about this all you want but, from what I see, Jackson doesn't seem to hold a lot of value/or be impressed with the Brown current lot of FA's, from his comments. Some of the reports are that they could still re-sign Mack but I think Schwartz was going to bolt anyway unless they tagged him and he's not worth that money after one breakout season.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Mar 2, 2016 9:41pm
Two names br:
Pashos
Cousins
Yeah rt is important. Now shut up about oline. Thanks
Pashos
Cousins
Yeah rt is important. Now shut up about oline. Thanks