Commander of Awesome;1689028 wrote:Id resign hoyer and draft a qb with some upside. I was never a manziel fan and nothing has changed my mind so far. I'd go front 7, preferably a penetrating NT, and pass rush. Maybe a de who is stout against the run.

Agreed on kirksey/Robertson but both have trouble getting off of blks. That needs to change. RT/RG competition, and backup center is also needed.

All of those I put ahead of WR.

Want to clarify here. I'm not giving up completely on JFF. That's what bad teams do, give up on 1st round picks too early. We need consistency, etc.... Look at McCoy, is he a starter? No, but he's a solid backup QB whom we should have kept around. I want to resign hoyer so we have someone who is competent behind center, give JFF some time to develop, and draft a guy to push JFF or insurance if JFF goes the way of David Veikune (who is still the worst player I have ever seen. I would have cut him after TC, he was THAT bad).

Commander of Awesome;1689060 wrote:Want to clarify here. I'm not giving up completely on JFF. That's what bad teams do, give up on 1st round picks too early. We need consistency, etc.... Look at McCoy, is he a starter? No, but he's a solid backup QB whom we should have kept around. I want to resign hoyer so we have someone who is competent behind center, give JFF some time to develop, and draft a guy to push JFF or insurance if JFF goes the way of David Veikune (who is still the worst player I have ever seen. I would have cut him after TC, he was THAT bad).

I'm leaning toward wanting to re-sign Hoyer as well. It would be nice if Shaw would play this week and show some competence. He could push Manziel. If the Browns can have a good draft, we can win the same way the Bengals have been winning the last couple weeks, with a solid running game and strong defense, while not asking much of the QB.

My issue with Shaw is he doesn't have the physical tools necessary to play the position IMO. Arm strength is something you can develop, but he certaintly didn't have the arm talent necessary to play the position at an NFL level. Which is why he only had one NFL team visit, and the Browns were the only team that showed any interest in him coming out of school. Poise, leadership, etc... will only get you so far. You need both to win consistently in the NFL. Don't have both, you can't be a viable starter in the NFL. Shaw sounds like a nice locker room guy, but I have doubts about him ever being even a serviceable backup based on what I remember seeing his last year at SC. If he starts on Sunday, I'll be pretty curious to see if his arm has developed.

Hoyer really didnt do much to garner much $$$ from another team unless they are looking for a bona fide backup. First and foremost he will only look to go someplace he has a chance to contend for a starting spot.
I dont think anyone is gonna throw $$$ at him to be a starter, and def not even close to the Dalton money some thought he may get within the same zip code as.

Cleveland fits for him to possibly be a starter. I dont see them drafting a legit QB unless they move way up so next year it will be the same BH or JM circus.
Even if Shaw plays well this sunday I dont think he will be a contender. You cannot go into camp and choose between three QB's. Years ago Cowher was asked in TC about his teams QB play (at the time they had a 3 QB competition) and he basically said there arent enough snaps for all 3. You need to have 2 at the most and I believe that still is true today.

I think if BH doesnt return it will be because he is fed up with the BS and circus.

thavoice;1689065 wrote:Hoyer really didnt do much to garner much $$$ from another team unless they are looking for a bona fide backup. First and foremost he will only look to go someplace he has a chance to contend for a starting spot.
I dont think anyone is gonna throw $$$ at him to be a starter, and def not even close to the Dalton money some thought he may get within the same zip code as.

IMO, he's been competent. I think he's proven that he can give a team a chance. What's also working in his favor is that this isn't an incredibly deep draft with QBs. He could go play for the Jets and be an instant upgrade over the rest of their dogshit quarterbacks. It just seems to me the trend is that with 32 teams, there are only about 25 quarterbacks who'd you feel at least confident sending out there, and he's one of them. I agree he won't get Dalton/Kaepernick money, but it'll still be a nice chunk of change.

All we really need to know about Johnny. Basically admitting he didn't take it seriously to this point.

Tom Reed ‏@treed1919 2m2 minutes ago Manziel: "I have to take this a lot more seriously. It's a job for me now.''

friendfromlowry;1689067 wrote:IMO, he's been competent. I think he's proven that he can give a team a chance. What's also working in his favor is that this isn't an incredibly deep draft with QBs. He could go play for the Jets and be an instant upgrade over the rest of their dogshit quarterbacks. It just seems to me the trend is that with 32 teams, there are only about 25 quarterbacks who'd you feel at least confident sending out there, and he's one of them. I agree he won't get Dalton/Kaepernick money, but it'll still be a nice chunk of change.

I dont even think he is going to get a "nice chunk" from anyone. Of course, nice chunk can be subjective but he just didnt put up the numbers needed for any team to give him much going forward.

se-alum;1689068 wrote:All we really need to know about Johnny. Basically admitting he didn't take it seriously to this point.

Tom Reed ‏@treed1919 2m2 minutes ago Manziel: "I have to take this a lot more seriously. It's a job for me now.''

lol'd. I like the tweet before that re: potentially drafting QB in first round "I dont think it'd be fair to give up on somebody after 7 quarters of football" What about giving up on somebody who admittedly didn't take this serious until the end of the season.

se-alum;1689068 wrote:All we really need to know about Johnny. Basically admitting he didn't take it seriously to this point.

Tom Reed ‏@treed1919 2m2 minutes ago Manziel: "I have to take this a lot more seriously. It's a job for me now.''

Danny Kannel was hosting M/M this morning and he talked about what it took to prepare as a pro. He said early on in careers many players think they can show up 5 min before the meeting/practice and leave right when it is over, but in reality the structured practice was just the beginning of what you need to do. It was apparent JM wasnt taking it seriously. Sure, NFL guys can go out, have their fun, do their own thing, but there is a time and place for that. When you are the QB, the most important person on the field, you need to know your job, all the WR's and TE's and RB's jobs, and also the blocking schemes of the OL AND match that against knowing what every single defense and look brings to the table. CFB came too easy for him as he was athletically better than most players on defense and if he knew at any moments notice he could just pull it down and run the ball. He didnt necessarily need to know his 3rd or 4th progression, or know what the OL scheme was as he could just use his ability to get out and make plays happen. Just cannot do that in the NFL. WIth that said, he can still use his legs at the QB spot. Hell, look at Dalton last night. The thing in the NFL is that the QB runs come from the passing and RB's getting their game going, and the QB just works off of that. The play he ultimately left the game on.....pure garbage. A straight run sweep with no play action? HOrrible play and/or awful execution.

thavoice;1689069 wrote:I dont even think he is going to get a "nice chunk" from anyone. Of course, nice chunk can be subjective but he just didnt put up the numbers needed for any team to give him much going forward.

Agree to disagree I suppose. His numbers weren't outstanding, but they were competent, IMO. I can think of a half-dozen teams he'd compete for the starting QB position. Like I said, there always seems to be a 7-8 guy shortage, so teams will step up to compete for him.

thavoice;1689074 wrote:Danny Kannel was hosting M/M this morning and he talked about what it took to prepare as a pro. He said early on in careers many players think they can show up 5 min before the meeting/practice and leave right when it is over, but in reality the structured practice was just the beginning of what you need to do. It was apparent JM wasnt taking it seriously. Sure, NFL guys can go out, have their fun, do their own thing, but there is a time and place for that. When you are the QB, the most important person on the field, you need to know your job, all the WR's and TE's and RB's jobs, and also the blocking schemes of the OL AND match that against knowing what every single defense and look brings to the table. CFB came too easy for him as he was athletically better than most players on defense and if he knew at any moments notice he could just pull it down and run the ball. He didnt necessarily need to know his 3rd or 4th progression, or know what the OL scheme was as he could just use his ability to get out and make plays happen. Just cannot do that in the NFL. WIth that said, he can still use his legs at the QB spot. Hell, look at Dalton last night. The thing in the NFL is that the QB runs come from the passing and RB's getting their game going, and the QB just works off of that. The play he ultimately left the game on.....pure garbage. A straight run sweep with no play action? HOrrible play and/or awful execution.

No doubt his legs can be a huge weapon, but they have to be a means to an end. When you see what Dalton did the other night, the things that Russell Wilson can do on the move, and I can't remember how many first downs Newton got the other day with his legs, it's obvious that running can be a big weapon when done properly. Manziel has made it easy on the d-line's he has played because he immediately is going one way or the other to get out of the pocket, so the defense just rushes straight up the field, while our o-line has no clue where to block a guy, and Manziel can't out run these guys. So much he should've been learning over the last 7 months that he obviously put no effort into learning.

Despite that Johnny Manziel vows to "take this more seriously,'' says "I don't feel like I would have done anything different'' since draft. smh

Because he knew that the QB competition was a sham, and that Pettine loved Hoyer so much that he had no shot!!!! OMG!!!1111

I still say as I did in the beginning of the season, the franchise QB for this team is not currently on the roster.

Probowl released, Bitonio got screwed.

Commander of Awesome;1689105 wrote:Probowl released, Bitonio got screwed.

He didn't get in? What the fuck?

SportsAndLady;1689111 wrote:He didn't get in? What the fuck?

Yeah Screw job. Iupati gave up 7 sacks, gets in.Bengals should also be pissed.

Joel Bitonio was @PFF's highest-graded LG this season. Screw job

Yeah Bitonio shocked me, and wouldn't be surprised to see him in as an alternate.

Commander of Awesome;1689105 wrote:Probowl released, Bitonio got screwed.

So did Manziel. Not his fault Pettine started that travelman bum all season when Johnny was clearly better in every way.

friendfromlowry;1689151 wrote:So did Manziel. Not his fault Pettine started that travelman bum all season when Johnny was clearly better in every way.

Commander of Awesome;1689153 wrote:

No shit. Has it really come to this? "Fans" constantly talking shit about our QB who has played 1 and a half games. We gave Brandon fucking Weeden a year to prove he was terrible but some want Manziel out already. Some of you HATE the guy for whatever dumbass reason you can think of, none of which are even close to legit for hating a player on your own damn team. Basically what im saying is GFY's.

Rotinaj;1689172 wrote:Some of you HATE the guy for whatever dumbass reason you can think of, none of which are even close to legit for hating a player on your own damn team

If someone hated him in college for being an arrogant douche that didn't seem close to being an NFL quality QB, that's a legit reason for hating him.

That's not how I personally feel, but it negates your point.

Rotinaj;1689172 wrote:No shit. Has it really come to this? "Fans" constantly talking shit about our QB who has played 1 and a half games. We gave Brandon fucking Weeden a year to prove he was terrible but some want Manziel out already. Some of you HATE the guy for whatever dumbass reason you can think of, none of which are even close to legit for hating a player on your own damn team. Basically what im saying is GFY's.

I was mocking Footwedge. I don't give a shit what happens to Manziel.

lhslep134;1689187 wrote:If someone hated him in college for being an arrogant douche that didn't seem close to being an NFL quality QB, that's a legit reason for hating him.

That's not how I personally feel, but it negates your point.

Not if he is the QB for YOUR team that isn't a legit excuse. The guy isn't a POS scumbag or anything, hes fucking cocky.

Rotinaj;1689191 wrote:Not if he is the QB for YOUR team that isn't a legit excuse. The guy isn't a POS scumbag or anything, hes fucking cocky.

I have no idea why you're trying to tell people who they can and can't hate. People can hate whichever athletes they want, even if they play for their team. Your attempt at criticizing those who don't like Manziel seems misguided and a waste of time.

For example: I hate Terrelle Pryor. He was my team's QB. If you told me I couldn't hate him only because he was MY team's QB, I'd have told you to go fuck yourself.