HighRoller74;1688773 wrote:To be fair, they also have probably the top 11 QB's in the NFL on their Rosters (Minus Houston), I think that plays the biggest part in it as well. But usually Top QB's turn mediocre WR's better than they are. So who the hell knows.

Russell Wilson disagrees, but I get the point. If you don't have a QB you don't have a chance.

Mulva;1688772 wrote:For whatever its worth... 11 of the top 12 players in receiving yards are on teams either in the playoffs (PIT, GB, DEN, IND, DET, DEN, DAL, GB, NE) or playing for a spot week 17 (ATL and HOU).

Atlanta shouldn't really count, but on the other hand the only player in the top 12 without a playoff shot is Jeremy Maclin of 9-6 Philly.

It never hurts to have offensive weapons.

I think one of those guys, maybe two were top 20 draft picks. You obviously need good WR's, but they can be found in rounds 2-7.

se-alum;1688783 wrote:I think one of those guys, maybe two were top 20 draft picks. You obviously need good WR's, but they can be found in rounds 2-7.

5 first, 4 second, and 2 third rounders on that list. And then Antonio Brown. If you keep going down the yardage list you have ODB (1st), Jeffery (2nd), Jackson (2nd), Megatron (1st), Benjamin (1st), Evans (1st), Jackson (2nd), Boldin (2nd).

That's 17/20 in receiving yards taken in the first 2 rounds. It's rare to find them in round 3 (2 guys), and almost impossible to do it 4-7.

#Browns called Rex Grossman about joining team but couldn't work out logistics. Grossman has family in for holiday

Sounds like Rex doesn't want to play anymore. Tebow time?

Commander of Awesome;1688796 wrote:#Browns called Rex Grossman about joining team but couldn't work out logistics. Grossman has family in for holiday

Sounds like Rex doesn't want to play anymore. Tebow time?

Ha. How messed up is that? Guy would rather be out of football than join the browns!

Commander of Awesome;1688796 wrote:#Browns called Rex Grossman about joining team but couldn't work out logistics. Grossman has family in for holiday

Sounds like Rex doesn't want to play anymore. Tebow time?

LOL I wish I had enough money in my life, where I could turn down 50k for one weeks worth of Family time.

Dansby with some real talk for Gilbert.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/12/karlos_dansby_on_struggling_ro.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Commander of Awesome;1688801 wrote:Dansby with some real talk for Gilbert.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/12/karlos_dansby_on_struggling_ro.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

The good that you can take from this is it doesn't seem to be ability with Gilbert. Hopefully the light comes on for him. I actually think Desir can be a good one for the Browns. He struggled some the other day, but he was pretty much thrown into the fire. Everyone was ready to give up on Skrine after his first year, but look how good he has been for the Browns. CB usually takes time to develop.

Agreed, Gilbert's potential is off the charts. Its between the ears that's keeping him on the pine. Good call on skrine, which reminds me that we need our DBs to step up as I doubt we keep him in FA.

Mulva;1688794 wrote:5 first, 4 second, and 2 third rounders on that list. And then Antonio Brown. If you keep going down the yardage list you have ODB (1st), Jeffery (2nd), Jackson (2nd), Megatron (1st), Benjamin (1st), Evans (1st), Jackson (2nd), Boldin (2nd).

That's 17/20 in receiving yards taken in the first 2 rounds. It's rare to find them in round 3 (2 guys), and almost impossible to do it 4-7.

Would you say the Beckham and Evans picks were good picks? Both those teams have glaring weaknesses on their lines, and have combined for 8 wins. Those guys had good years, but not good value picks. Anyone picked after 20 is usually going to a team that has a solid team already, and is just adding pieces. I would argue that the Falcons are now feeling the affects of trading 5 draft picks to get Julio Jones.

se-alum;1688816 wrote:Would you say the Beckham and Evans picks were good picks? Both those teams have glaring weaknesses on their lines, and have combined for 8 wins. Those guys had good years, but not good value picks. Anyone picked after 20 is usually going to a team that has a solid team already, and is just adding pieces. I would argue that the Falcons are now feeling the affects of trading 5 draft picks to get Julio Jones.

That's a good point, they put up good numbers, but their teams have been pretty awful. As others have said, WR's are like luxury cars, something everyone wants, but you can still get by if you don't have them.

Jesus how sad and pathetic is iggy? I mean, literally, just talking to himself about doom and gloom subjects on a thread started by him, for him.

Doesn't get much more pathetic then that.

se-alum;1688816 wrote:Would you say the Beckham and Evans picks were good picks? Both those teams have glaring weaknesses on their lines, and have combined for 8 wins. Those guys had good years, but not good value picks. Anyone picked after 20 is usually going to a team that has a solid team already, and is just adding pieces. I would argue that the Falcons are now feeling the affects of trading 5 draft picks to get Julio Jones.

Yes.

Was Bitonio a bad pick because the browns only have 7 wins and still have holes everywhere? Its flawed logic.

Sigh. We could have drafted a QB who throws the ball with anticipation before the WR breaks

[video]https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/B5jZuMvCYAAwkcw.mp4[/video]

Mulva;1688935 wrote:Yes.

Was Bitonio a bad pick because the browns only have 7 wins and still have holes everywhere? Its flawed logic.

Bitonio was a 2nd round pick with better value than Mike Evans or ODB.

se-alum;1688965 wrote:Bitonio was a 2nd round pick with better value than Mike Evans or ODB.

He also skated around your ATL feeling the loss of those picks needed to obtain Jones. Same thing happened to the Browns with the 08/09 drafts. They have the best WR in the league, but it doesn't matter bc their OL/DL is garbage.

We cut Agnew, our FB and signed......

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/11/24/4627740_police-thigpen-found-asleep-at.html?rh=1

For anyone that still GAF:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/12/22/refo-browns-panthers-week-16/

Solomon, the most recent Alex Hall prospect.

Commander of Awesome;1688968 wrote:He also skated around your ATL feeling the loss of those picks needed to obtain Jones. Same thing happened to the Browns with the 08/09 drafts. They have the best WR in the league, but it doesn't matter bc their OL/DL is garbage.

We cut Agnew, our FB and signed......

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/11/24/4627740_police-thigpen-found-asleep-at.html?rh=1

I was pointing out the obvious fact that overall team success has nothing to do with whether an individual pick was good or bad.

By that logic, the browns haven't made a good pick since returning.

ttt

ttt

Mulva;1688998 wrote:I was pointing out the obvious fact that overall team success has nothing to do with whether an individual pick was good or bad.

By that logic, the browns haven't made a good pick since returning.

They made two great picks with Joe Thomas and Alex Mack, and we saw how the loss of Mack hurt this team. That injury hurt the team more than any other injury we've had, and I would argue Phil Taylor was the 2nd biggest loss for this team. There's zero doubt that o-line, defense front 7, and QB are the most important aspects of the team. There's a reason why the 1st round of most drafts is made up of players at those positions.

se-alum;1689019 wrote:They made two great picks with Joe Thomas and Alex Mack, and we saw how the loss of Mack hurt this team. That injury hurt the team more than any other injury we've had, and I would argue Phil Taylor was the 2nd biggest loss for this team. There's zero doubt that o-line, defense front 7, and QB are the most important aspects of the team. There's a reason why the 1st round of most drafts is made up of players at those positions.

Anchors of both lines go down and our team starts to suck. Not a coincidence.

Who gives a shit about the last game of the season. So many questions going into the offseason. Who's our QB going into next year? After watching Johnny I just don't know. Hoyer I believe is gone. Who's the vet qb we bring in?

We have two first round picks, what route do we go? I think best Dline / pass rusher in the first round. You have to fix that front 7 on the defensive side and get a legit back up center and maybe upgrade the RT position.

Obviously Rubin and Sheard will be gone, what do you let happen with Cameron and Gipson? I personally hope they lock Gipson up to a big contract. I can see Cameron getting the transition tag just like they did Mack.

The 2015 season all hinges on qb play. Manziel has a lot of work to put into the offseason to make me a believer again, Ive lost faith in him, along with a lot of the fan base.

Honestly, I have no idea on the QB situation. Manziel has only had a game and a half, but I've no seen anything from him to think he can be an NFL QB. Usually with a QB, it's reading defenses and anticipation that is the problem. With Manziel, everything is a mess. His mechanics are atrocious for someone that has had an entire offseason, and most of the regular season to improve those.

Draft wise, I'm going NT and a rusher to replace Sheard. I think Kirksey and Robertson are solid, and hopefully we can get another year or two out of Dansby. In the 2nd I work on the o-line, mainly RT/RG.

I have no problem letting Cameron walk. He's had one good season, and is probably one concussion away from never playing again. I think Barnidge and Dray are plenty serviceable for the time being. Gipson needs to be locked up long term. He's a ball hawk that has no problem hitting someone.

Id resign hoyer and draft a qb with some upside. I was never a manziel fan and nothing has changed my mind so far. I'd go front 7, preferably a penetrating NT, and pass rush. Maybe a de who is stout against the run.

Agreed on kirksey/Robertson but both have trouble getting off of blks. That needs to change. RT/RG competition, and backup center is also needed.

All of those I put ahead of WR.

For those of you who think Hoyer is gone, is it because you think he legitimately doesn't want to play in Cleveland anymore? Or because he'll want more money than they want to pay him. I think he played himself out of a lot of money this season, but someone will still overpay him.