se-alum;1681600 wrote:How can you say Manziel gives the team the best chance to win? If you say you just want to see what Manziel can do, that's one thing, but to say Hoyer does not give the team the best chance to win is just your opinion trying to be passed off as fact. I'll trust that the coaching staff is putting the QB they believe to be the better of the two out on the field. I'm far from a big Hoyer fan, but it's funny when fans try to pass off their opinions as fact and expect everyone to just believe it.

Fact to look at Hoyer the last 5 games. That is a fact. Fact we've forced 17 turnovers the last 6 or 7 games and only converted 3 into touchdowns. Watch the tape he is no longer the man for the job, he is broken. Turn on the tape, tape doesn't lie. Watching Manziel last week it gave the team a shot in the arm.

Wonder if IQQY writes for this. If not, his head will explode.

@DawgPoundNation · 22m22 minutes ago

From a team source, #Browns HC Mike Pettine was driving force to keep Hoyer as starter. Rest of offensive staff wanted Manziel.

I saw somewhere that the Hoyer's last 47 drives have resulted in 1 TD pass or something.

shook_17;1681646 wrote:Fact to look at Hoyer the last 5 games. That is a fact. Fact we've forced 17 turnovers the last 6 or 7 games and only converted 3 into touchdowns. Watch the tape he is no longer the man for the job, he is broken. Turn on the tape, tape doesn't lie. Watching Manziel last week it gave the team a shot in the arm.

Hoyer isn't going to beat Indy, just like Manziel wouldn't have beaten Indy. The only reason to put Manziel in there, at this point, is because the "playoff" chances are pretty much done. Yes, they are still in it mathematically but there are too many tiebreakers and I wouldn't be surprised if they'd have to run the table to get in. Neither of these QB's are going to do that which is why throwing Manziel in there makes sense, not because he gives them a better chance to beat Indy.

Yes, I probably sound like Debbie Downer but how many people REALISTICALLY think this team has a legit shot to get in?

shook_17;1681646 wrote:Fact to look at Hoyer the last 5 games. That is a fact. Fact we've forced 17 turnovers the last 6 or 7 games and only converted 3 into touchdowns. Watch the tape he is no longer the man for the job, he is broken. Turn on the tape, tape doesn't lie. Watching Manziel last week it gave the team a shot in the arm.

Manziel led a meaningless drive against a defense that spent no time preparing for him. How did that next drive go?? I would've been fine with them starting Manziel, but to act like he is the savior without him ever starting a game is ridiculous.

You guys realize that the Browns are only 3.5 point underdogs this weekend, right? They have a chance to win with either QB. The Colts are not some juggernaut running roughshod over the whole league. Their defense is streaky, the offense has been consistently scoring but teams have been getting to Luck an awful lot recently. He has taken a lot sacks and has been turning it over.

I guarantee most Colts fans are happy about this news.

TBone14;1681656 wrote:You guys realize that the Browns are only 3.5 point underdogs this weekend, right? They have a chance to win with either QB. The Colts are not some juggernaut running roughshod over the whole league. Their defense is streaky, the offense has been consistently scoring but teams have been getting to Luck an awful lot recently. He has taken a lot sacks and has been turning it over.

I guarantee most Colts fans are happy about this news.

Their defense may be "streaky" but their offense isn't. Do you think the Browns will seriously win a shootout with Luck? If you do, I really hope you're right but I'm just being realistic.

se-alum;1681655 wrote:Manziel led a meaningless drive against a defense that spent no time preparing for him. How did that next drive go?? I would've been fine with them starting Manziel, but to act like he is the savior without him ever starting a game is ridiculous.

I wanted Manziel to start this game but a valid point was brought up.....what if Manziel's first drive was actually his second drive and that "gift" Tom Brady Tuck Rule they gave him was actually a fumble and a TD for Buffalo? People probably wouldn't have been as "rah rah" on him.

BR1986FB;1681658 wrote:I wanted Manziel to start this game but a valid point was brought up.....what if Manziel's first drive was actually his second drive and that "gift" Tom Brady Tuck Rule they gave him was actually a fumble and a TD for Buffalo? People probably wouldn't have been as "rah rah" on him.

I wouldn't have minded Manziel starting at all. It's just ridiculous for people to say that Manziel gives the team a better chance to win, basically based on his college play. Pettine wouldn't start Hoyer for the hell of it if he thought Manziel was ready to help this team.

None of this surprises me.

I have told all of you all along that Pettine is so far up Hoyer's ass it is amazing he can breath, and I knew he wouldn't be able to resist the urge to start him this week.

I have never seen anything like it.

Hoyer better reward Pettine this week though because if shows up as he has been and gets booed out of the stadium, suddenly Pettine is likely to find himself in the cross hairs for the first time with people questioning his competence.

Someone needs to tell Mike that Brian isn't going to be here next year, and that potentially alienating your entire coaching staff, probably part of the locker room, and most likely a good deal of the fan base all because you can't break yourself of your Hoyer habit is a recipe for disaster.

We aren't going to the playoffs. If this season ends without seeing what Johnny can do in meaningful games because Pettine has a school girl crush on Hoyer than Farmer should be publicly calling him out as it is making long term planning significantly more difficult for really no reason.

Pull up the Bills game thread, I knew this was coming and it sucks.

se-alum;1681669 wrote:I wouldn't have minded Manziel starting at all. It's just ridiculous for people to say that Manziel gives the team a better chance to win, basically based on his college play. Pettine wouldn't start Hoyer for the hell of it if he thought Manziel was ready to help this team.

A lot of peoples expectations of Manziel are ridiculous. "He's gonna run the table", "they'd be 10-2 with him in there", etc. I just want to see him in there (mostly) in the red zone. Yeah, I've "broken record'd" that comment but I really think his mobility would equate to a few more TD's and a lot less chewing of the fingernails hoping Cundiff isn't going to shank a 33 yarder. Hoyer is just brutal inside the 20.

se-alum;1681655 wrote:Manziel led a meaningless drive against a defense that spent no time preparing for him. How did that next drive go?? I would've been fine with them starting Manziel, but to act like he is the savior without him ever starting a game is ridiculous.

Not once did I say Manziel was the savior of this franchise. Way to read into it though. If you can sit there with a straight face and tell me Hoyer gives this team the best chance to win Sunday after watching the last four performances you're kidding yourself. We have no running game Manziel would open that up and keep Indy and off balance. It's the truth and fact.

Let's face it. Brian Hoyer will not be here next year and you can take that to the bank. If he leads the team to the playoffs, he'll be gone thru free agency....if he loses the team to Johnny at this point, the Browns will not keep him as a back up, even if Hoyer wanted to stay. The only reason to keep playing Hoyer is if he is capable of leading the team to the playoffs THIS YEAR. That is sure not going to happen if he continues to play as he did in the last three games...hence I'd have to think he's on a very short leash, considering the Indy defense is not a juggernaut. If he can't move the ball against Indy, what good is he now?

I think Brian Hoyer has one half of football to prove he has still got it...and he better put up 14 points or better or they'll go to JFF.

HitsRus;1681679 wrote:Let's face it. Brian Hoyer will not be here next year and you can take that to the bank. If he leads the team to the playoffs, he'll be gone thru free agency....if he loses the team to Johnny at this point, the Browns will not keep him as a back up, even if Hoyer wanted to stay. The only reason to keep playing Hoyer is if he is capable of leading the team to the playoffs THIS YEAR. That is sure not going to happen if he continues to play as he did in the last three games...hence I'd have to think he's on a very short leash, considering the Indy defense is not a juggernaut. If he can't move the ball against Indy, what good is he now?

I think Brian Hoyer has one half of football to prove he has still got it...and he better put up 14 points or better or they'll go to JFF.

I just read an interesting take that believes that Pettine/Farmer stuck with Hoyer because they are "conceding the season." They know they are not making the playoffs and are falling apart (physically). The belief by this writer is "let Hoyer take the fall since he's leaving after the season anyhow.....no sense in putting Johnny out there if there's no chance of winning." I'm of the opposite belief but I guess it's an interesting conspiracy theory.

BR1986FB;1681682 wrote:I just read an interesting take that believes that Pettine/Farmer stuck with Hoyer because they are "conceding the season." They know they are not making the playoffs and are falling apart (physically). The belief by this writer is "let Hoyer take the fall since he's leaving after the season anyhow.....no sense in putting Johnny out there if there's no chance of winning." I'm of the opposite belief but I guess it's an interesting conspiracy theory.

That's one of the most retarded things I've ever heard.

Miles Austin was placed on IR, by the way.

Sucks, one less receiver target.

BR1986FB;1681682 wrote:I just read an interesting take that believes that Pettine/Farmer stuck with Hoyer because they are "conceding the season." They know they are not making the playoffs and are falling apart (physically). The belief by this writer is "let Hoyer take the fall since he's leaving after the season anyhow.....no sense in putting Johnny out there if there's no chance of winning." I'm of the opposite belief but I guess it's an interesting conspiracy theory.

Didnt know FW wrote an article.
It is absurd though.

SportsAndLady;1681683 wrote:That's one of the most retarded things I've ever heard.

Kind of my thoughts when I read it. I was scratching my head because I think everyone on the planet, who is a Browns fan, probably thinks the opposite. LOL

shook_17;1681678 wrote:Not once did I say Manziel was the savior of this franchise. Way to read into it though. If you can sit there with a straight face and tell me Hoyer gives this team the best chance to win Sunday after watching the last four performances you're kidding yourself. We have no running game Manziel would open that up and keep Indy and off balance. It's the truth and fact.

There is at least evidence that Hoyer can win games, there is zero evidence that Manziel can. So he can run, this isn't college football, there are D-Ends that are as fast as Manziel, like last week when he couldn't get by a 300lb Kyle Williams. Like I said, if you want Manziel to start to see what he has, that's valid. To blindly claim he gives the team the best chance to win is ridiculous. Nobody right now can claim to know what Manziel can do, good or bad, because there is no basis.

thavoice;1681685 wrote:Didnt know FW wrote an article.
It is absurd though.

He didn't write it. There was no mention of "Breowns" and the math/statistics were all correct.

BR1986FB;1681686 wrote:Kind of my thoughts when I read it. I was scratching my head because I think everyone on the planet, who is a Browns fan, probably thinks the opposite. LOL

What do you mean? You think Browns fans are expecting a playoff appearance?

BR1986FB;1681682 wrote:I just read an interesting take that believes that Pettine/Farmer stuck with Hoyer because they are "conceding the season." They know they are not making the playoffs and are falling apart (physically). The belief by this writer is "let Hoyer take the fall since he's leaving after the season anyhow.....no sense in putting Johnny out there if there's no chance of winning." I'm of the opposite belief but I guess it's an interesting conspiracy theory.

I do not believe for one second that Pettine, while sitting at 7-5 isn't spending 100% of his time trying to figure out the best way to attack/defend Indy and win the game and stay nicely alive for a playoff shot.

No way in hell the first year coach isn't going all in for a chance to get into the playoffs. Pettine knows his stock would be ridiculously high and a playoff berth would put him in hero status for a bit. No coach worth a damn would even consider that.

SportsAndLady;1681690 wrote:What do you mean? You think Browns fans are expecting a playoff appearance?

Think he means if they thought the playoffs were unreachable, they would start Manziel to see what they've got with him.

SportsAndLady;1681690 wrote:What do you mean? You think Browns fans are expecting a playoff appearance?

No. My belief was that if Pettine were conceding the season, it wouldn't be Hoyer playing, it would be Manziel. Isn't that how it usually works? The team is done so you give the rookie QB a "looksee" to see what he's got? That writer had it ass backwards in his little conspiracy theory belief.

Ironman92;1681691 wrote:I do not believe for one second that Pettine, while sitting at 7-5 isn't spending 100% of his time trying to figure out the best way to attack/defend Indy and win the game and stay nicely alive for a playoff shot.

No way in hell the first year coach isn't going all in for a chance to get into the playoffs. Pettine knows his stock would be ridiculously high and a playoff berth would put him in hero status for a bit. No coach worth a damn would even consider that.

I tend to believe this. Pettine is pulling a "CYA" move. If Hoyer loses this week and they are mathematically eliminated THEN go to the rookie. He can always say "I couldn't do that to the veterans when we still had a chance."