How many of those seasons have the Red Riders been in the top 3 in a boy's sport? In basketball they have finished in the top 3 of the standings 5 times and finished in 2nd place 3 times, each behind Mansfield. I can't imagine anyone in Orrville with any sense thought 11 years ago that by joining a league with Wooster, Mansfield, Ashland, Lexington, and Madison was going to produce countless league championships. Specially when you take into account that 3-5 of those sports have not been very strong and probably would not win in any conference.

An-Old-Fan;1702177 wrote:How many of those seasons have the Red Riders been in the top 3 in a boy's sport? In basketball they have finished in the top 3 of the standings 5 times and finished in 2nd place 3 times, each behind Mansfield. I can't imagine anyone in Orrville with any sense thought 11 years ago that by joining a league with Wooster, Mansfield, Ashland, Lexington, and Madison was going to produce countless league championships. Specially when you take into account that 3-5 of those sports have not been very strong and probably would not win in any conference.

We aren't looking to get out of the OCC and into the PAC just because we think it will equate to more league titles. Orrville NEVER put emphasis on league titles. Look in our gym and trophy cases...

As for the PAC...we are looking for a new league that does several things. 1. Align us with schools more our size and culture. 2. Shorten travel times (equals fuel savings). 3. Better gates with local teams and creating more rival games.

The most important thing for me is it allows our middle school teams to compete with schools that are OUR size and COULD equate to more wins at that level. More wins = happier kids. Happier kids = more participation. Any coach at the high school right now will tell you that the MAIN reason kids are not coming out for sports at the high school level is because "It wasn't fun and we hardly ever won".

Its all about getting kids more involved for me, not about league titles. Get the numbers up and wins WILL come. Get this town excited about its athletic teams again.

Old Rider;1702286 wrote:We aren't looking to get out of the OCC and into the PAC just because we think it will equate to more league titles. Orrville NEVER put emphasis on league titles. Look in our gym and trophy cases...

As for the PAC...we are looking for a new league that does several things. 1. Align us with schools more our size and culture. 2. Shorten travel times (equals fuel savings). 3. Better gates with local teams and creating more rival games.

The most important thing for me is it allows our middle school teams to compete with schools that are OUR size and COULD equate to more wins at that level. More wins = happier kids. Happier kids = more participation. Any coach at the high school right now will tell you that the MAIN reason kids are not coming out for sports at the high school level is because "It wasn't fun and we hardly ever won".

Its all about getting kids more involved for me, not about league titles. Get the numbers up and wins WILL come. Get this town excited about its athletic teams again.

We could stop keeping score and just say everybody wins...give them all a blue ribbon and nobody gets hurt feeling. Get away from the Pee Wee system completely and you will see numbers start to go up in HS after a few years.

Old Rider - It's apparent that someone is looking at league titles.

Flash;1701888 wrote:League champions in last 11 years in Boy's nine different sports---1 -2005 Boy's Football tied with Madison. 1 league championship in 99 tries.
League champions in girls sports in last 11 years in 8 girls sports-- 12- 5 in vball and 3 in girls b ball. So the girls are holding their own.

An-Old-Fan;1702306 wrote:Old Rider - It's apparent that someone is looking at league titles.

OldRider is right league titles mean almost nothing in Orrville. We have had many years of not being in a league and the league title lost any importance to many.

An-Old-Fan;1702306 wrote:Old Rider - It's apparent that someone is looking at league titles.

A former Red Rider that played in the mid-late 60's....yes....that's all they had to play for!

Nice post Captain Obvious!!

rrfan;1702292 wrote:We could stop keeping score and just say everybody wins...give them all a blue ribbon and nobody gets hurt feeling. Get away from the Pee Wee system completely and you will see numbers start to go up in HS after a few years.

I don't disagree with anything you said...I am just speaking for our current state at the middle school and what current coaches are telling me directly!!

We aren't looking to get out of the OCC and into the PAC just because we think it will equate to more league titles. Orrville NEVER put emphasis on league titles. Look in our gym and trophy cases...

As for the PAC...we are looking for a new league that does several things. 1. Align us with schools more our size and culture. 2. Shorten travel times (equals fuel savings). 3. Better gates with local teams and creating more rival games.

The most important thing for me is it allows our middle school teams to compete with schools that are OUR size and COULD equate to more wins at that level. More wins = happier kids. Happier kids = more participation. Any coach at the high school right now will tell you that the MAIN reason kids are not coming out for sports at the high school level is because "It wasn't fun and we hardly ever won".

Its all about getting kids more involved for me, not about league titles. Get the numbers up and wins WILL come. Get this town excited about its athletic teams again

Well said!

Get away from the Pee Wee system completely and you will see numbers start to go up in HS after a few years.

AGREE!

OldRider is right league titles mean almost nothing in Orrville. We have had many years of not being in a league and the league title lost any importance to many

.

In my time at Orrville we never even talked about league titles because we weren't in one. The ONLY thing we judged ourselves on was playoffs (and how many kids got carted off the field). LOL, Just kidding... kind of....

rrfan;1702307 wrote:OldRider is right league titles mean almost nothing in Orrville. We have had many years of not being in a league and the league title lost any importance to many.

Well Flash does not see it that way so my info was for him. I figured most did not see league titles as a necessity for the teams.

I agree, league titles mean very little and even less when you are playing for district titles. When Flash tossed out the lack of success in the boys conference title races I wanted to point out how competitive Rider Basketball has been.

Don't put words in my mouth. The number of league titles was put there because you insinuated we were competing ( 1 title in 99 tries doesn't indicate to me we are being very successful). I was against joining this league to start with ( for multiple reasons: size, travel, etc but it was the only option then. Now there is another option that seems better ) and I think we've made the best of it by setting goals of winning tournament games. I don't expect our goals to change in a new league other than inserting a league title between beating Wooster and going to State. Same ones: Going undefeated , beating Wooster and Triway, going to State.

Competing for titles does not equal winning titles. A team that finishes 2nd competed for a title but did not win it. My guess would be the change in conferences would give an immediate improvement in result of records but a very possible decline in tournament length. I guess we shall see.

I agree that girls sports would be better off where we are now. This is a great vball conference and we will have to schedule great non conference teams and scrimmages to prepare us. Girls basketball we've been consistently in the upper echelon and we'll get competition from Manchester and Tuslaw, but we will want to keep West Holmes, Wooster and at least one other opponent from the old conference.

Boy's sports- football we need a conference change here the most. Takes too, many kids to have a successful program. The preliminary count for boy's playing football next year from this year's junior, sophomore and freshman classes - 15 have committed to play next year. The incoming freshman class is going to have to fill some holes and it won't be pretty. Boy's basketball we haven't had a winning season in 3 or more years but you don't get beat up as much, takes less bodies and we've done ok in the tournament.

I agree we'll win more and have to be careful we don't think winning in a league equates to winning in the tournament, but I'm hoping that we'll drag the league up rather than have them drag us down.

Although I think our scheduling does help us in preparing for the playoffs/tourney....lets not forget that the 3 boys state basketball teams and the 1 football title teams were EXCEPTIONAL teams. Those type of athletes don't come along every other year.
I think scheduling was a VERY SMALL part of the equation those years, but more so was the amount of talent on those teams...
We have had some great teams in the OCC that didn't do much in the playoffs/tourney....did the schedule help then?? NO...they found out in the playoffs/tourney that it is ultimately TALENT that wins it all...not a schedule.
Prime example....Norwayne football 2011 - State champs - WCAL....it certainly wasn't their schedule that made them go on and win a title....it was simply TALENT!!

So we can go on and on and on about "Oh our schedule always prepared us, and now were are taking a step back"....BULL!!

Talent, hard work, and a little luck wins titles!!

Flash;1702473 wrote: Boy's sports- football we need a conference change here the most. Takes too, many kids to have a successful program. The preliminary count for boy's playing football next year from this year's junior, sophomore and freshman classes - 15 have committed to play next year. The incoming freshman class is going to have to fill some holes and it won't be pretty. Boy's basketball we haven't had a winning season in 3 or more years but you don't get beat up as much, takes less bodies and we've done ok in the tournament.
.

The numbers problem will not change with a new conference. So football numbers will still be low and beating bad teams will not get you in the playoffs.

Basketball tournament has been ok? I'm guessing they have had more success in the last 5 years then they have had in the previous 10.

It will always take talent to go far in tournament but good scheduling of opponents will prepare you for tough competition on the tournament/playoff trail. IMO

I'm hoping the numbers will change, but you're right, anyone that doesn't come out because its too, tough or they may get hurt may not be a real help. Some of our success in basketball has been due to the division change to 3, but we've not done well at the regional level in the last couple of years and I agree it won't change with a conference change, it has to do with talent and I think we've got as far as our talent has let us.

An-Old-Fan;1702532 wrote:...and beating bad teams will not get you in the playoffs.

Its gotten Triway in the postseason the last 2 years and usually 2 teams from the WCAL make it...

This year Triway was 10-0 and last year 8-2. Thought we agreed it takes a certain amount of talent.

Talent to win titles YES....something the Titans have ZERO of!

Your post mentioned not making the playoffs because of playing weak teams. My post was in reference to Triway playing in the PAC (which you called a weak schedule for Orrville) and they still made the playoffs playing the same schedule Orrville would have in the PAC.

A team going 10-0 and beating a team 47-0 and winning a league title must have some talent.

MY post was in reference to Orrville playing a solid schedule then playing smaller schools for tournament and having more recent success than most they see in D3.

An-Old-Fan;1702653 wrote:A team going 10-0 and beating a team 47-0 and winning a league title must have some talent.

MY post was in reference to Orrville playing a solid schedule then playing smaller schools for tournament and having more recent success than most they see in D3.

Yeah...some...

Well let me throw this out to you all...the girls 8th grade Basketball team is back to back OCC Champions. You know why???they have great talent!

You know why the boys are no good in football? They do not have talent. It does not matter if you have no talent in the OCC, WCAL, or the PAC you will still suck! I am tired of giving them an out. They don't have the horses to play in any conference right now. In fact you could probably take some of the Girls HS Basketball and Volleyball players the last few years and they would have started. Enough said.

Trinity would definitely start. Ya, she isn't physical enough to play with the boy's but quickness, jumping ability, length, etc she is as good as most or better.

rrfan;1703263 wrote:Well let me throw this out to you all...the girls 8th grade Basketball team is back to back OCC Champions. You know why???they have great talent!

You know why the boys are no good in football? They do not have talent. It does not matter if you have no talent in the OCC, WCAL, or the PAC you will still suck! I am tired of giving them an out. They don't have the horses to play in any conference right now. In fact you could probably take some of the Girls HS Basketball and Volleyball players the last few years and they would have started. Enough said.

I agree about the talent...but I disagree about how our teams would have fared the last few years in the PAC opposed to the OCC. I think last years team would have competed for a PAC league title and this years team would have been around .500 (speaking football).

The girls sports are certainly on a different level right now from High school down to middle. But the boys middle school sports were better and there is some pretty good talent coming behind them!!

Old Rider;1703416 wrote:I agree about the talent...but I disagree about how our teams would have fared the last few years in the PAC opposed to the OCC. I think last years team would have competed for a PAC league title and this years team would have been around .500 (speaking football).

The girls sports are certainly on a different level right now from High school down to middle. But the boys middle school sports were better and there is some pretty good talent coming behind them!!

I know I could do the research and find out but I am lazy today and don't want to look who won the PAC in 2013 (Football)?

.500 in the PAC this year would have been good enough for you? You would have gotten exactly what you got which is no league championship, no playoffs and still bad...