jmog;1677654 wrote:So not a single QB in the NFL is averaging more than 52 rush yards per game and now Manziel will get 75+ per game? I know you have trouble with simple math, but you don't really believe he is the best scrambler in the NFL by far do you?

He will run when he needs to and he will move the chains...and yes, he probably will be the best scrambler in the NFL. BTW...800 SAT score in math.

Con_Alma;1677644 wrote:...then like him for choosing the QB that wouldn't take Shanahan's playbook down to one page.

I can guarantee you that if Shanahan was the head coach, Johhny would be starting....and this team would be 9-2 fighting New England for home field throughout.

Pettine needs a course in time management. Yesterday was the second time this year that he butchered the end of a half. He compounded his mistake by allowing Cundff to kick yesterday.

Footwedge;1677683 wrote:I can guarantee you that if Shanahan was the head coach, Johhny would be starting....and this team would be 9-2 fighting New England for home field throughout.

No one can guarantee that. Losing Mack alone makes that improbable.

...then there's the defensive injuries.

Footwedge;1677674 wrote:How many 19 year old Heisman winners have failed in the NFL? The answer is none. Another pseudofan football fan that never watched the kid play at A&M. Let's keep throwing out one of the worst quarterbacks in the league instead.

I watched him plenty in College. He was fun to watch, but this ain't college and I am not saying he will fail. I also see a team that is in the hunt right now and Hoyer is winning. What makes you think that JF is going to be able to do better? Hype does not equal success.

rrfan;1677725 wrote:I watched him plenty in College. He was fun to watch, but this ain't college and I am not saying he will fail. I also see a team that is in the hunt right now and Hoyer is winning. What makes you think that JF is going to be able to do better? Hype does not equal success.

You mean Johnny throwing jump balls to his receivers all game might not work out in the NFL like it did in college??

Footwedge;1677675 wrote:Why don't you bump your thread asking me to STFU smog? This town has had it up to here with your boy. Your boy has sucked the whole year. Why don't you woman up and admit you are wrong for once in your life?

Answer the question, do you believe Johnny would be the best scrambling QB in the NFL by FAR?

If the answer is yes, then you are a moron.
If the answer is no, then you are a moron who doesn't understand math (Russell Wilson has the most rush yards as a QB this season and he is averaging 52 yards/gm).

I truly believe that Hoyer will not be the QB next season, Manziel will be. I also truly believe that Hoyer is not the long term answer.

However, a team that was 4-12 last season is currently 7-4. The major differences are a couple defensive players, Bitonio, and Hoyer (all minus Gordon until this week). To act like Hoyer has done NOTHING to help this team win is the definition of insanity.

Hoyer has stunk or been just below average in 4 of the last 5 games, with the lone exception against Cincy. There is no denying that.

The ONLY reason all the other rookie QBs are starting already is because their teams SUCK and are already out of the playoffs. If at any point Cleveland is effectively out of the playoff race, I will be right there with you. Give Manziel his shot.

All of the rookie QBs, Carr, Bortles, Bridgewater, are hovering around 70-75 QBR and only Carr has more TDs than INTs. Hoyer is at 82 QBR and has more TDs than INTs.

Rookie QBs, those 3 guys, are 3 of the bottom 4 in current QBR, the only one down there with them is Geno Smith, and he is quite possibly the worst starting (not anymore) QB in the NFL.

It is a reality, rookie QBs struggle unless your name is Andrew Luck, and don't give me RG3 or Cam Newton. Manziel is not as fast/agile/athletic as those 2. He is MUCH more athletic than Hoyer, but not those 2 guys, and those 2 SUCK now. Peyton Manning sucked his rookie season, as did pretty much every other rookie QB to start as a rookie.

I need nothing else than the FACT that the 3 current "big name" rookies that are starting are ALL WORST in the league in QB rankings (3 of the bottom 4).

To believe that Manziel, who quite possibly will be really good next year, will somehow be MUCH better than the other rookies drafted around him is the definition of insanity.

Please, tell me what current year rookie QB you think is tearing it up and would be taking this Browns team to the playoffs? They are ALL performing worse than Hoyer right now, and that is pretty bad with how he has played.

Footwedge;1677679 wrote:He will run when he needs to and he will move the chains...and yes, he probably will be the best scrambler in the NFL. BTW...800 SAT score in math.

800 SAT score that can't figure out playoff scenarios or spell "Breowns".

Michael Vick is known as the best scrambler in decades...and over his career he has averaged 44 yards/game. The highest season he EVER had was 64.9 yards/game...and Johnny will get 75 yards/game?

Randall Cunningham, widely considered the best scrambler ever (has most rushing yards ever as a QB) never did better than 59 yards/gm for a season...

So are you saying that Johnny would be the best scrambling QB of all time?

You are again failing at math and reality.

jmog;1677737 wrote:800 SAT score that can't figure out playoff scenarios or spell "Breowns".

Michael Vick is known as the best scrambler in decades...and over his career he has averaged 44 yards/game. The highest season he EVER had was 64.9 yards/game...and Johnny will get 75 yards/game?

Randall Cunningham, widely considered the best scrambler ever (has most rushing yards ever as a QB) never did better than 59 yards/gm for a season...

So are you saying that Johnny would be the best scrambling QB of all time?

You are again failing at math and reality.

He will move the chains when needed. He will scramble in the red zone and spike the ball when the touchdown is made...and not throw floater interceptions on first and goal on the 6 yard line with the game on the line. He will complete well over 60% of his passes as opposed to a putrid 55% the present guy is doing. So when are you gonna woman up and admit Hoyer is rubbish???

Anybody who can only find a way to be miserable after we just won in the last second to give us a 7-4 record is truly a miserable piece of shit. Enjoy being miserable while our team performing better than we have ever seen them perform.

Footwedge;1677739 wrote:He will move the chains when needed. He will scramble in the red zone and spike the ball when the touchdown is made...and not throw floater interceptions on first and goal on the 6 yard line with the game on the line. He will complete well over 60% of his passes as opposed to a putrid 55% the present guy is doing. So when are you gonna woman up and admit Hoyer is rubbish???

...and yet is still unable to convince a HC, which you have stated you like, that he's better than who is currently starting. Until he does that nothing it doesn't matter what anyone thinks he might be able to do. If Hoyer is that bad how bad must Pettine think Manziel is?

Interesting piece on this topic....

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24834700/nfl-grades-week-12-browns-living-dangerously-with-brian-hoyer

jmog;1677732 wrote:
However, a team that was 4-12 last season is currently 7-4. The major differences are a couple defensive players, Bitonio, and Hoyer (all minus Gordon until this week). To act like Hoyer has done NOTHING to help this team win is the definition of insanity.

Anyone with half a brain knows the Browns are winning inspite of Hoyer.

The ONLY reason all the other rookie QBs are starting already is because their teams SUCK and are already out of the playoffs. If at any point Cleveland is effectively out of the playoff race, I will be right there with you. Give Manziel his shot.[unquote]

That is false. The coaches of these teams all started 0-0. Unlike Kojak and his Hoyer addiction, the other coaches decded to play the best guy.

All of the rookie QBs, Carr, Bortles, Bridgewater, are hovering around 70-75 QBR and only Carr has more TDs than INTs. Hoyer is at 82 QBR and has more TDs than INTs.{unquote} And NONE of those teams have the best OC in the NFL having receivers breaking wide open all day. It was a tragedy to see all those opportunities wasted yesterday. Manziel hangs 40 on the Falcons yesterday...and Hoyer mops the game up on a 25 point blowout.

Rookie QBs, those 3 guys, are 3 of the bottom 4 in current QBR, the only one down there with them is Geno Smith, and he is quite possibly the worst starting (not anymore) QB in the NFL.[unquote] See above...RE Shanahan. Also, don't lump these other rookies with Manziel. There is NO COMPARISON in ability levels. All rookies are not the same and you're an idiot in making the correlation.

It is a reality, rookie QBs struggle unless your name is Andrew Luck, and don't give me RG3 or Cam Newton. Manziel is not as fast/agile/athletic as those 2. He is much more athletic than Hoyer, but not those 2 guys, and those 2 SUCK now. Peyton Manning sucked his rookie season, as did pretty much every other rookie QB to start as a rookie.(unquote)

RGIII was incredible his rookie year..he was healthy..and he had...(drum roll) Shanahan as his OC. Wilson was awesome his first year...MUCH BETTER than Brian Hoyer. But it really doesn't matter. Lumping all rookie quarterbacks together is a stupid mistake. How many 19 year old D-1 quarterbacks complete 69\% of their passes and win the Heisman? The answer is none.

I need nothing else than the FACT that the 3 current "big name" rookies that are starting are ALL WORST in the league in QB rankings (3 of the bottom 4).[unquote] Once again, don't lump all rookie quarterbacks together. Their respective performances are mutually exclusive. There is a reason that a guy like Gil Brandt, a former general manager who orchestrated a mini dynasty in Dallas said that Manziel should have been the number one overall pick in last year's draft. Just stop it with..."""but, but, but...the other rookie quarterbacks...... vomit, spit, puke, fart....."

To believe that Manziel, who quite possibly will be really good next year, will somehow be MUCH better than the other rookies drafted around him is the definition of insanity.(unquote} No, according to Einstein the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result. Hoyer was cut by 3 different NFL teams and was not even drafted by the NFL because of his putrid 55% completion rate in college. Not to mention his inability to move. To put him out there week after week after week and expect a different result than a pile of crud...is by Einstein's definition insane.

Please, tell me what current year rookie QB you think is tearing it up and would be taking this Browns team to the playoffs? They are ALL performing worse than Hoyer right now, and that is pretty bad with how he has played.

Go ahead and lump em all together. Only a buffoon would be that stupid in doing so.

Didn't Gil Brandt think Colt McCoy was going to be the second coming too?

Footwedge;1677739 wrote:He will move the chains when needed. He will scramble in the red zone and spike the ball when the touchdown is made...and not throw floater interceptions on first and goal on the 6 yard line with the game on the line. He will complete well over 60% of his passes as opposed to a putrid 55% the present guy is doing. So when are you gonna woman up and admit Hoyer is rubbish???

I like how you're just making stuff up about how good Manziel will be, but then you ask someone for proof when they make a claim against it.

se-alum;1677752 wrote:I like how you're just making stuff up about how good Manziel will be, but then you ask someone for proof when they make a claim against it.

English please. I don't understand jibberish.

Listening to Hoyer nut squeezers, Baskin and Phelps and LMAO at Jeff. He says that if the Browns thought they would have a better chance to win with Manziel then they would play him. Wrong. Kojak has a love affair going on with this guy. If Pete Carroll was the coach, Manziel would be playing. If Bellichek was the coach, Manziel would be playing. ( Remember a defeated Bernie was replaced with Vinnie). If Jim Harbaugh was the coach, Manziel would be playing.

I like Kojak as a coach. He's going to be good. But he is blinded somehow and won't listen to Shanahan and the quarterback coach who are pleading with him to make a change.

Footwedge;1677759 wrote: But he is blinded somehow and won't listen to Shanahan and the quarterback coach who are pleading with him to make a change.

Humor us....you know this how? And please don't respond "Chuck Booms sources."

7-4.
Over 300 yards.
Game winning drive.
HOyer is the franchise QB and now with Gordon back.........the AFC North should be afraid.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

SMH. Hoyer now ranked 23rd in the league. Unlike others around here...I want to win NOW.

Yesterday was a win and they are 7-4 so I'd say they are winning "now." They're just winning very ugly but it is a "W."

Footwedge;1677739 wrote:He will move the chains when needed. He will scramble in the red zone and spike the ball when the touchdown is made...and not throw floater interceptions on first and goal on the 6 yard line with the game on the line. He will complete well over 60% of his passes as opposed to a putrid 55% the present guy is doing. So when are you gonna woman up and admit Hoyer is rubbish???

You didn't answer the question. Do you believe Manziel will be the best scrambling qb of all time? Simple question, yes or no.

se-alum;1677752 wrote:I like how you're just making stuff up about how good Manziel will be, but then you ask someone for proof when they make a claim against it.

We all know that's how an intellectually challenged, senile, and bitter codger's brain works.

BR1986FB;1677769 wrote:Yesterday was a win and they are 7-4 so I'd say they are winning "now." They're just winning very ugly but it is a "W."

Sometimes you just gotta get "lucky". I only got to see the last 3 minutes or so. How Atlanta handled the clock and whole situation was very shitty. But........it went in the browns favor and good teams take advantage of teams mistakes and that is what the browns did. Kudos to them. I was watching it at a restaurant and thought....damn...too much time!

BR1986FB;1677761 wrote:Humor us....you know this how? And please don't respond "Chuck Booms sources."

It's common sense. I have no sources...it's simply common sense. You mean to tell me than Shanahan's ingenious play designs with wide open receivers all over the field being missed isn't pissing him off?

Come on man... I guarantee you that Shanahan and Loggins (sp) has just about had it up to here with Kojak.