SportsAndLady;1681515 wrote:Chris Heisey is considered a bat?

No, this...

Ironman92;1681534 wrote:I think he means we need to get a bat.

I liked Heisey. He was good coming off the bench.

Heisey was a great asset to come off the bench and be versatile enough to start in the OF.
As a starter...no way.

I think we are going to have Melky in LF in 2015

Ironman92;1681582 wrote:I think we are going to have Melky in LF in 2015

Wishful thinking.

Time will tell

Dont hold your breath.

Walt and Bob are cutting cash. That's why they're shopping Bruce. Look for Shumaker to be starting in LF.

TedSheckler;1681778 wrote:Walt and Bob are cutting cash. That's why they're shopping Bruce. Look for Shumaker to be starting in LF.

God I'll sound like IGGY on Reds threads

They aren't necessarily cutting payroll. They have even said that. I would bank that the Reds payroll will approach 120M going forward. What they ARE doing is trying to re-allocate the funds and decide where to put the future money. Unfortunately, Votto, Bailey and Phillips...

Votto - 15:$14M, 16:$20M, 17:$22M, 18-23:$25M annually
Phillips - 15:$12M, 16:$13M, 17:$14M
Bailey - 15:$10M, 16:$18M, 17:$19M, 18:$21M, 19:$23M

Things are very flexible after 2015, but you also have Cueto, Chapman, Latos and Leake as free agents, and Bruce a free agent after 2016. However, for 2016 and 2017, you have over 50M committed to just 3 players, and in 2018 and 2019, about 45M committed to just 2 players. The Reds need to do some re-shuffling.

Chapman still is the best trade bait for a bat.
Love watching him, but his end results are just slightly above many other closers. He does it in spectacular fashion, no doubt about that, but if they could have gotten a bat for him that can play everyday i would have done it.

I think Chapman is well-above normal closers. He doesn't have the longevity, but he's probably the most dominant reliever ever. Actually, Craig Kimbrel is probably as good. We're seeing 2 of the best relievers in history.

Career ERA: 2.32
Mariano Rivera: 2.21

Career WHIP: .982
Mariano Rivera: 1.000

Career SO/B Ratio: 3.52
Mariano Rivera: 4.10 (insane for a RP)

Chapman has a career 15.3 K/9. He's worth being your Mariano Rivera. As long as his arm stays healthy.

Azubuike24;1681803 wrote:I think Chapman is well-above normal closers. He doesn't have the longevity, but he's probably the most dominant reliever ever. Actually, Craig Kimbrel is probably as good. We're seeing 2 of the best relievers in history.

Career ERA: 2.32
Mariano Rivera: 2.21

Career WHIP: .982
Mariano Rivera: 1.000

Career SO/B Ratio: 3.52
Mariano Rivera: 4.10 (insane for a RP)

Chapman has a career 15.3 K/9. He's worth being your Mariano Rivera. As long as his arm stays healthy.

Oh he is spectacular, no doubt about that!

The role of a closer over time is a bit overstated.

After 8 innings of play, the team ahead has consistanly won games at a 95% clip since the 60's. It has stayed constant even before the years closers became vogue.
A great closer is a luxury to have. I would love to keep him but if it comes down to him, or an every day player who can produce I want that every day guy and fill in with another guy to close. A replacement may not wow you but can save a very close percentage of games than Chappy could.

thavoice;1681817 wrote:Oh he is spectacular, no doubt about that!

The role of a closer over time is a bit overstated.

After 8 innings of play, the team ahead has consistanly won games at a 95% clip since the 60's. It has stayed constant even before the years closers became vogue.
A great closer is a luxury to have. I would love to keep him but if it comes down to him, or an every day player who can produce I want that every day guy and fill in with another guy to close. A replacement may not wow you but can save a very close percentage of games than Chappy could.

There's a lot of truth to that. IMO, a good pitching coach and catcher (for framing and handling the staff) are probably more important than any one element of a staff. Over their last two seasons of competitive baseball, the Pirates have gotten a ton of mileage out of a journeyman middle reliever (Grilli) and a talented guy who was a bit of a reclamation project after bombing in Boston (Melancon) at the closer position. Neither were guys with the elite pedigree for the job coming into it and neither have Chapman's peripherals, but both were as good at getting the job done and getting saves consistently.

Heretic;1682111 wrote:There's a lot of truth to that. IMO, a good pitching coach and catcher (for framing and handling the staff) are probably more important than any one element of a staff. Over their last two seasons of competitive baseball, the Pirates have gotten a ton of mileage out of a journeyman middle reliever (Grilli) and a talented guy who was a bit of a reclamation project after bombing in Boston (Melancon) at the closer position. Neither were guys with the elite pedigree for the job coming into it and neither have Chapman's peripherals, but both were as good at getting the job done and getting saves consistently.

Been hearing stats on WLW sports talk over the last few years that makes you wonder about it. Yeah, a great close is a great luxury to have, no doubt, and CHappy stuff is as good or better than anyone who has ever held that spot.

This isnt a great comparison but I went to the seasons that Rivera was the closer. Started in 97 as that is when he really became a closer and took out 2012 where he was hurt.
Now, this is just Rivera's saves vs the whole reds staff over that time.
The reds have around 5 more saves over that time period. Now....the Yankees had around 3-6 saves per season not by MR in those years as well. When you factor in that the yankees over that time were much better than the reds, it comes down to fairly close when you compare what the reds have done and Rivera has done, loosely based of course.

Not to say he was overrated, not one bit at all. Just saying the position as a whole is overrated and if that $$$ can be used for an every day player who produces it may be worth it.

I also have been a proponant of him as a starter. I think he could have had a randy johnson type career.

Tigers are getting Simon for Eugenio Suarez and some minor league pitcher Crawford.

(Tigers also traded Rick Porcello for Yoenis Cespedes today-everybody wanting to know what this means toward signing Max Scherzer)

Reds also trade Latos to the Marlins.

That shit pisses me off

Can't wait to finish last in the division!! Awesome!!!!!

Damn, huge firesale.

Didn't expect that

Knew something had to give with the pitchers coming due for FA.
I wonder what interest they are getting for Chapman and I wonder if they are keeping him because of the WOW and excitement factor...

The reds had to either stay pat or rebuild. I think rebuild made the most sense as much as it sucks. Now you gotta try moving cueto. Unless they wanna wait till mid season. They have to move him though, they can't afford him. I wouldn't trade Chapman to anyone. Your bullpen blows, he's the only good thing about it.

Sounds like they got some nice prospects today too.

Trade cozart too and I'll be happy.

Votto's contract is completely fucking this team.

I understand the Simon trade (though he was cheap)....Latos didn't have much stuff this season.

We'll see how it unfolds in the end....but as a fan I want to win every freaking year

Love the Simon trade, and we all knew either Latos or Cueto(if not both) would have to go.

The Suarez kid started at SS for the Tigers for most of the season. Not sure how he fits in with Cozart. The Crawford kid was their 2nd best prospect(according to mlb.com) and 1st round pick in 2013.

I think they are cutting payroll to sign Cueto.

So far I am not too pissed whom they got rid of. Would have liked to keep Latos but hey, he probably was gonna be gone anyways.

Cozart isnt entrenched as the SS of this team with his weak bat. Yeah, he can pick it but he cannot swing it.