charliehustle14 wrote:

karen lotz wrote: I'm not saying that UC's defense is anywhere near the level of OSU's. I am saying I would assume that a large piece of UC's defensive struggles could be linked to the fact that they replaced 10 starters. Someone brought up OSU's 2006 defense. How did 2006 end up for OSU? The same way 2009 ended for UC.

The result was the same, for sure. But OSU just reloaded with more first round, NFL players. And through 12 games, that OSU defense was one of the best in the nation.

Thank you.

karen lotz wrote:

ytownfootball wrote:

karen lotz wrote: I'm not saying that UC's defense is anywhere near the level of OSU's. I am saying I would assume that a large piece of UC's defensive struggles could be linked to the fact that they replaced 10 starters. Someone brought up OSU's 2006 defense. How did 2006 end up for OSU? The same way 2009 ended for UC.

I would be willing to bet my ass that '06 OSU D ranked statistically higher than '09 UC D without even looking it up which is the whole point.

Where did I say UC's 09 defense was ranked statistically higher than OSU's 06 defense??

This isn't hard to follow if you're staying on topic.

karen lotz wrote:

charliehustle14 wrote:

karen lotz wrote: I'm not saying that UC's defense is anywhere near the level of OSU's. I am saying I would assume that a large piece of UC's defensive struggles could be linked to the fact that they replaced 10 starters. Someone brought up OSU's 2006 defense. How did 2006 end up for OSU? The same way 2009 ended for UC.

The result was the same, for sure. But OSU just reloaded with more first round, NFL players. And through 12 games, that OSU defense was one of the best in the nation.

Thank you.

All I'm saying is UC fans shouldn't carry around the whole excuse of having to replace numerous players on one side of ball. It's not a problem for any of the BCS Bowl regulars to reload. UC fans talk like they're one of those BCS powerhouses because they ran the table in the worst conference in football.

It's just funny that those same UC fans who were saying UC was a better team than OSU are now pulling out the excuse of replacing the entire defense.

Yes, I do realize you're not a UC fan. But you brought up their go-to excuse of replacing all those starters on D.

I'm still down here in New Orleans but I see the blather on the Huddle is as expected.

Yes, UC took one on the chin last night. Florida was the better team with better talent. UC did not help themselves with some costly mistakes and some spotty play-calling on offense(first half). The defense was piss-poor the second half of the season and last night was no different. Even if Kelly had been on the sideline Florida would have still rolled (maybe we would have scored one or more times).

However, marke these words..... the Bearcats are not dead. We have a plethora of talent returning next year (Collaros, Pead, Woods, Binns, Wolfe, Giodardno,) and with Butch Jones at the helm this team will finish near the top of the Big East once again.

I am going to leave it with a quote from UC MLB Ande Revels from after the game: "The Cincinnati Bearcats this year have been counted out 13 times. 12 times in a row we came away with a victory. One time, one time you guys got it right, and that’s today. But don’t take anything away from our credibility. Our record speaks for itself."

You have a lot of talent, and you'll proably win the Big East again.

Your linebacker is way off base with that comment. No way Cincy was an underdog in EVERY game they played this year... I know people who picked them consistently week after week in the Big East.

But.... if you don't fix your defense, you'll end up in the Orange Bowl against an overmatched opponent and get waxed again.

Darby,

Agreed they were not the underdog in every single game, but they were counted out every week. Prior to the season, Herbie and the boys at ESPN did not even mention us when they did the pre-season predictions (WE WERE THE DEFENDING CHAMPS FOR PETE'S SAKE). Herbie and the boys did not even put our helmet on the set when they did a segment prior to the season profiling college football in each state. Most of the publications (Sporting News, Phil Steele, etc.) predicted UC to finish 3rd-5th this season. Everyone called for UC to lose to Oregon State.

I do agree the defense needs to be fixed. The d-coordinator is gone and so will be the 3-4 (good luck ND). We have some fine defensive recruits coming in and who will be eligible this season. I expect Butch Jones to tap into his Florida pipeline and get us some talent (as I expect local talent to stick around).

Finishing near the top of the Big East = Going .500 in a real conference. I have always rooted for UC in every game they played(except against OSU) until this year when all of their fans became delusional and thought they were now an elite program. You cannot become an elite program while playing in the current Big East unless you play and beat the big boys every year in your non conference games.

When you're doing preseason predictions would you put up Cincy's helmet knowing that the entire country pretty much knows Ohio as Buckeye country? I didn't see the helmet of any other Ohio schools up there either... Most of the country thinks of Ohio as Ohio State. Is that the Buckeyes fault? No. But until Cincy beats Ohio State(which in future schedules they'll have the opportunity to do so), people will continue to think this way.

I wouldn't have picked Cincy to win against Oregon State either. They returned a lot of guys and the game was in Corvallis which was a tough place to play.

You and I both know how pointless pre-season publications are anyways. Its all based on opinion and projections on depth charts and other intangible factors

Darby- they had OSU, YSU and the Ohio Mac schools. No UC. They talked plenty about Miami U., BG, Toledo, etc. No Bearcats.

I agree the pre-season pubs are pointless, however the point being made is that people doubted UC (from a global perspective). Every week I had to hear on this forum how they were going to loose. Well, they finally lost. People got their wish. Too bad for them it took 13 games to get there.

Little Danny wrote:
I do agree the defense needs to be fixed. The d-coordinator is gone and so will be the 3-4 (good luck ND). We have some fine defensive recruits coming in and who will be eligible this season. I expect Butch Jones to tap into his Florida pipeline and get us some talent (as I expect local talent to stick around).

If Cincinnati can somehow get their defense up to the offense's level, Cincy will be just fine. Any word on who Butch Jones is trying to get to be the DC?

^^^^

I can't see this happening. Not until they get some size in the front seven

jordo212000 wrote:

Little Danny wrote:
I do agree the defense needs to be fixed. The d-coordinator is gone and so will be the 3-4 (good luck ND). We have some fine defensive recruits coming in and who will be eligible this season. I expect Butch Jones to tap into his Florida pipeline and get us some talent (as I expect local talent to stick around).

If Cincinnati can somehow get their defense up to the offense's level, Cincy will be just fine. Any word on who Butch Jones is trying to get to be the DC?

They have already named Tim Banks and John Jancek as co-defensive coordinators. Banks was the DC at CMU and Jancek was a co-defensive coordinator at Georgia. I just read today most of all the CMU assistants will be coming to UC. Staying at UC will be Kerry Coombs (DB coach/associate head coach/recruiting guru) and possibly RB coach Tim Hinton. Most of all of the other slots will be filled by the CMU staff.

Little Danny wrote:
They have already named Tim Banks and John Jancek as co-defensive coordinators. Banks was the DC at CMU and Jancek was a co-defensive coodinator at Georgia. I just read today most of all the CMU assistants will be coming to UC. Staying at UC will be Kerry Coombs (DB coach/associate head coach/recruiting guru) and possibly RB coach Tim Hinton. Most of all of the other slots will be filled by the CMU staff.

Thanks for the info. Like I said, Cincy's offense is going to be really good again next year. Collaros (sp?) has pretty close to the same skill set as Dan Lefevour (sp? again) and Lefevour thrived in Jones's system. Like I said, if UC can get a DC to turn their defense into a top 20-30 defense, UC will run away with the Big East every year and eventually they should be able to put up a better fight in the BCS bowls. (I don't think anybody could have beaten Florida last night)

The only reason Coombs is considered a recruiting guru is because he was the head coach @ Colerain and knows EVERYONE in the Cincy area... to me that hardly makes him a 'guru'

Thanks Jordo. Two things to consider about UC's defense this year: they have a lot of guys coming back next year in the two deep roster and there were a couple of guys banged up/ineligble this season who I expected things from (CB Chris Williams, JUCO DE Monte Taylor). Hopefully this year's experience will help these guys be even better next season.

darbypitcher22 wrote: The only reason Coombs is considered a recruiting guru is because he was the head coach @ Colerain and knows EVERYONE in the Cincy area... to me that hardly makes him a 'guru'

I don't know whether the guy is a "guru" but having somebody who can put a lock down on Cincinnati would be very valuable in my eyes. The city is full of great football programs and D1 talent.

That is important; however they still have problems getting guys to stay home with as much talent as there is in the city

Cincinnati had an incredible dream season this year. The problem will be, can Cincinnati pay Jones what he will want if he is successful right away or will he too, be lured away from Cincy by the larger market, more prestigeous programs from the PAC 12, the Big Ten, the SEC, the ACC, and so forth and so on?? Will Cincinnati be at the mercy of trying to find another coach in one or two years and will there be the falling off that other "one time wonder" programs have experienced? Ohio State will always get the coach they want and their budget makes King Midas look like a welfare recipient. And we haven't even started to look at the issue of scholarships etc.etc.etc. . I'm really happy for my son's Alma Mater this season and we are all very proud of Cincinnati but the reality is that it will be difficult for Cincinnati to compete on a level playing field with the "Big Dogs". Maybe Coach Jones will fall in love with the city and the program and stay for years.........?

Cincy can pay him better than Central Michigan did, that's for sure

Swamp Fox wrote: Cincinnati had an incredible dream season this year. The problem will be, can Cincinnati pay Jones what he will want if he is successful right away or will he too, be lured away from Cincy by the larger market, more prestigeous programs from the PAC 12, the Big Ten, the SEC, the ACC, and so forth and so on?? Will Cincinnati be at the mercy of trying to find another coach in one or two years and will there be the falling off that other "one time wonder" programs have experienced? Ohio State will always get the coach they want and their budget makes King Midas look like a welfare recipient. And we haven't even started to look at the issue of scholarships etc.etc.etc. . I'm really happy for my son's Alma Mater this season and we are all very proud of Cincinnati but the reality is that it will be difficult for Cincinnati to compete on a level playing field with the "Big Dogs". Maybe Coach Jones will fall in love with the city and the program and stay for years.........?

Cincinnati has had some great seasons the past few years. However, you are right, as of now the school is still kind of a launching pad for bigger jobs. There really isn't a whole lot they can do about that. I mean they can improve their facilities, pay the coach more, etc. but at the end of the day it is what it is.

Cincy has to accept that the guys they bring in are probably going to bail on them. If they stay, that's great. But the threat of a coach leaving is a reality for them. UC needs to be grateful that they've hired 2 great coaches who have helped get them started the right direction (Dantonio, Kelly) and they need to move on with Jones. If Jones leaves, then you find the next coach who will help the program. It sucks, and you feel bad for the kids though... but UC has to move on with life.

They may never be able to leave that cycle either..... The Big East isn't exactly helping itself build its reputation as a league that can earn a berth in the National Title game year in and year out...

Big East titles and Orange Bowl trips are nice, but sooner or later the guy in charge is going to be looking for something more

I've maintained forever that if UC wants to put up competitive programs on a regular basis, Nippert is the problem. I realize the tradition, age, and logistics of making changes to it, but it is less than half the size it needs to be for revenue particularly.

^^^^

so do you suggest they play in Paul Brown?

I don't think they have the fan base to fill it

ytownfootball wrote: I've maintained forever that if UC wants to put up competitive programs on a regular basis, Nippert is the problem. I realize the tradition, age, and logistics of making changes to it, but it is less than half the size it needs to be for revenue particularly.

Yeah, agreed there. I don't really know a whole lot about Nippert's situation, but didn't they just put a ton of money into it for renovations? I can't imagine UC would build another stadium after doing all that. Also, I think UC has staying power to be a solid program (not the one of the late 90s-early 00s when they were awful) but what about the administration? Do they feel the same way? What happens if they drop back into mediocrity and can't get butts in the seats?

Nippert is tied into the University, students walk through it going t and from class, it's also one of if not the oldest stadiums still in use. It just holds 35k though. That's just a huge drawback in terms of recruiting top level talent and funding imo.