robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 3, 2014 12:32pm
Always on my shit huh lol I don't follow those metrics very much because like anything they can be skewed. They are an interesting tool but I would never BASE my argument around them.SportsAndLady;1632644 wrote:Disregards a stat. Doesn't know what the stat entails.
/rob
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 3, 2014 12:35pm
Laley23;1632645 wrote:Do we have a depiction of where Wades shots were from. The guy is awful behind the arc, so I'd be curious how many runners and lay-ups he had. No way is he a 55% shooter if we are taking about actual shots.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 3, 2014 12:35pm
Yes I'm counting playoffs because the regular season obviously has less meaning to the Miami Heat than other teams. He did break down against the Spurs but still averaged 15 ppg but his fg% dipped to 44%, which is still better than almost any two guard in the league lolLaley23;1632649 wrote:He wasn't on the court for 3/4 unless counting playoffs...and at that point he broke down after/during the ECF with Pacers.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 3, 2014 12:36pm
And they also shot 3's.robj55;1632648 wrote:It doesn't matter, he has never been a three point shooter. Therefore he is still able to get the shots he wants and make them at a ridiculously high rate for a two guard. Michael's highest fg% was 53 and Kobe's is 47 to put it in perspective.
wildcats20
Posts: 27,794
Jul 3, 2014 12:37pm
Still wasn't 75%.robj55;1632653 wrote:Yes I'm counting playoffs because the regular season obviously has less meaning to the Miami Heat than other teams. He did break down against the Spurs but still averaged 15 ppg but his fg% dipped to 44%, which is still better than almost any two guard in the league lol
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 3, 2014 12:39pm
Jordan never shot a lot of threes early in his career. The point of the game is to put the ball n the hole, Wade is able to do that and extremely efficiently because he can take and make his shots. Those were Kobe and Jordan's shots. That does weigh in but you can't penalize Wade because of it. Kobe should have had a higher fg% based on playing with the most dominant center we've ever seen and playing in one of the most advantageous systems this game has ever seen.lhslep134;1632654 wrote:And they also shot 3's.
Classyposter58
Posts: 6,321
Jul 3, 2014 12:40pm
Top 4 seeds in the West would all of have taken out Miami almost definitely. 50% chance they beat Portland, Golden State and Memphisrobj55;1632604 wrote:I stand by what I said, the east was bad but Miami beats all those other teams in a seven game series. No way to prove right or wrong.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 3, 2014 12:40pm
73%, see this is what you guys do to me lol Grasp at straws in effort to make me look bad/stupid and win an argument lolwildcats20;1632655 wrote:Still wasn't 75%.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 3, 2014 12:41pm
LOL, not even worth an intelligent responseClassyposter58;1632657 wrote:Top 4 seeds in the West would all of have taken out Miami almost definitely. 50% chance they beat Portland, Golden State and Memphis
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 3, 2014 12:43pm
The absolute truest way to stack up Wade's regular season performance would be to take his true shooting percentage, which takes into account the difference between 2's, 3's, and FT's, and combine that to see who else has done what he did, >18.9 ppg and >.587 (Wade's TS% this year was .588).
The answer? 69 GUARDS (it wouldn't even be fair to use F/C, thus irrelevant) have averaged 19 while shooting .588 from the field. 66 players had better seasons doing it than Wade. 60 of those players were over 66% more effective than Wade when it comes to WS. The numbers simply do not lie.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=18.9&c2stat=ts_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=.587&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws
The answer? 69 GUARDS (it wouldn't even be fair to use F/C, thus irrelevant) have averaged 19 while shooting .588 from the field. 66 players had better seasons doing it than Wade. 60 of those players were over 66% more effective than Wade when it comes to WS. The numbers simply do not lie.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=18.9&c2stat=ts_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=.587&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jul 3, 2014 12:44pm
Wade is not a top 25 player. End of discussion.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 3, 2014 12:46pm
Once again you spin it because you were wrong. Carry on. I can tell about 2 people on here ever even touched a basketball in their lives. Referring to those metrics as your main argument means nothing to me in the end. Just a way for you to skew an argument in your favor. The facts are that Wade averaged 19, 5 and 5 on 55% shooting, that's what happened.lhslep134;1632660 wrote:The absolute truest way to stack up Wade's regular season performance would be to take his true shooting percentage, which takes into account the difference between 2's, 3's, and FT's, and combine that to see who else has done what he did, >18.9 ppg and >.587 (Wade's TS% this year was .588).
The answer? 69 players have averaged 19 while shooting .588 from the field. 66 players had better seasons doing it than Wade. 60 of those players were over 66% more effective than Wade when it comes to WS. The numbers simply do not lie.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=18.9&c2stat=ts_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=.587&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 3, 2014 12:47pm
Name me 25 better, this will be funny.sleeper;1632661 wrote:Wade is not a top 25 player. End of discussion.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 3, 2014 12:49pm
So you're just completely disregarding a more relevant stat that takes into account the difference in shot types, in order to rest your argument on an archaic stat?robj55;1632662 wrote:Once again you spin it because you were wrong. Carry on. I can tell about 2 people on here ever even touched a basketball in their lives. Referring to those metrics as your main argument means nothing to me in the end. Just a way for you to skew an argument in your favor. The facts are that Wade averaged 19, 5 and 5 on 55% shooting, that's what happened.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 3, 2014 12:50pm
Also, what exactly am I spinning? And what am I wrong about again?? I used Wade's numbers to see who else has done it. 68 others have done it, including 3 others this year, and 97% of them did so while providing more value.robj55;1632662 wrote:Once again you spin it because you were wrong. Carry on. I can tell about 2 people on here ever even touched a basketball in their lives. Referring to those metrics as your main argument means nothing to me in the end. Just a way for you to skew an argument in your favor. The facts are that Wade averaged 19, 5 and 5 on 55% shooting, that's what happened.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jul 3, 2014 12:50pm
There are 15 players on the Spurs team for starters.robj55;1632664 wrote:Name me 25 better, this will be funny.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 3, 2014 12:54pm
Rob this isn't just directed at you, but rather all ignorant people: ADVANCED STATS EXIST FOR A REASON. THEY TELL A MORE COMPLETE STORY THAN BASIC, ARCHAIC STATS. TO DISREGARD ADVANCED NUMBERS IN FAVOR OF BASIC ONES THAT THE ADVANCED METRICS ALREADY TAKE INTO ACCOUNT IS IGNORANT, SHORT-SIGHTED, AND THE MARK OF THE DUMB/STUBBORN.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 3, 2014 12:54pm
If you're right then why don't we go off true shooting percentage historically? Because it's only another metric to look at and doesn't indicate what happened factually on the basketball court. I'm not ignoring it but it doesn't come first for me, or anyone else for that matter when comparing players and shooting percentages. When any expert discusses players they never discuss true shooting percentage because it's not as relevant as actual FG%.lhslep134;1632665 wrote:So you're just completely disregarding a more relevant stat that takes into account the difference in shot types, in order to rest your argument on an archaic stat?
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 3, 2014 12:55pm
I'm not disagreeing with you, but they should never been your main argumentative tool.lhslep134;1632668 wrote:Rob this isn't just directed at you, but rather all ignorant people: ADVANCED STATS EXIST FOR A REASON. THEY TELL A MORE COMPLETE STORY THAN BASIC, ARCHAIC STATS. TO DISREGARD ADVANCED NUMBERS IN FAVOR OF BASIC ONES THAT THE ADVANCED METRICS TAKE INTO ACCOUNT IS IGNORANT, SHORT-SIGHTED, AND THE MARK OF THE DUMB.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 3, 2014 12:55pm
haha you're the best kind of troll, that's why we all love yousleeper;1632667 wrote:There are 15 players on the Spurs team for starters.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 3, 2014 12:56pm
No 68 other shooting guards have not scored 19 ppg and shot 55% from the field.lhslep134;1632666 wrote:Also, what exactly am I spinning? I used Wade's numbers to see who else has done it. 68 others have done it, including 3 others this year, and 97% of them did so while providing more value.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 3, 2014 12:58pm
robj55;1632669 wrote:doesn't indicate what happened factually on the basketball court.
HOW THE ACTUAL F*CK DOES IT NOT??? You're now arguing against an obvious fact, a staple of FW. Congrats
True shooting percentage does a BETTER JOB of detailing what factually happened.
Since you're advanced metric retarded, this conversation is over. Enjoy simmering in your primordial soup of basketball analysis.
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Jul 3, 2014 12:59pm
I just dont know how you can watch Wade and say he is a top 25 player. He looks old, slow and incapable of doing anything on his own. He still holds value, but not top 25 player value.
Frankly, if you cant stay on the court and you cant make a 3PT shot, I dont want you as my starting 2G.
Frankly, if you cant stay on the court and you cant make a 3PT shot, I dont want you as my starting 2G.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 3, 2014 1:00pm
You didn't answer my question, then why aren't advanced stats use when comparing players on a common basis? I agree that they are a measurable tool, but they should never be the first one you go to. Who's to say that those are accurate with all the different elements that go into them?lhslep134;1632675 wrote:HOW THE ACTUAL F*CK DOES IT NOT??? You're now arguing an obvious fact, a staple of FW. Congrats
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 3, 2014 1:02pm
No he looked that way in the finals, he didn't look that way the rest of the season. If you didn't know who it was and I told you player A averaged 19 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg on 55% shooting as a TWO guard while only taking 14 shots per game and playing just over 32 mpg you would say that player is fantastic. There has been am overreaction since the finals performance, just like Pat Riley said.Laley23;1632676 wrote:I just dont know how you can watch Wade and say he is a top 25 player. He looks old, slow and incapable of doing anything on his own. He still holds value, but not top 25 player value.
Frankly, if you cant stay on the court and you cant make a 3PT shot, I dont want you as my starting 2G.