Defeating deeply held beliefs

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gut

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15,058 posts
Jun 4, 2014 12:59 PM
lhslep134;1622531 wrote:Not ignorance, lack of logic/reason. Or inability to separate emotion from logic/reason.
Hmmm....I think it may be a combination of both. Emotion causes people to reject the best solution, and lack of logic/reason leads them to accept a less optimal alternative.

If you ever talk to money managers, the single biggest obstacle to success they must overcome is emotion. That is very different from conviction and "instinct" based on experience. Oddly enough, the best have to be able to think illogically.
Jun 4, 2014 12:59pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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27,879 posts
Jun 4, 2014 1:08 PM
Con_Alma;1622557 wrote:Only using the left side of the brain to make decisions denies the individual of the full capacity and process available to them as a human. The most exhaustive decision making process a human can make should come from a a right brain /left brain blended, cross-over process.
No. The right side of the brain only disrupts the reasoning of the left; it does not add value and it does not assist in any way.
Jun 4, 2014 1:08pm
G

gut

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15,058 posts
Jun 4, 2014 1:12 PM
sleeper;1622572 wrote:No. The right side of the brain only disrupts the reasoning of the left; it does not add value and it does not assist in any way.
I might side with Con_Alma on this one.

Logic/data can often only take you so far, and that's where the "art" in decision-making comes into play. Real value comes from innovation and creativity, but only when it is responsibly constrained by logic and reason.
Jun 4, 2014 1:12pm
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sleeper

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Jun 4, 2014 1:17 PM
gut;1622574 wrote:I might side with Con_Alma on this one.

Logic/data can often only take you so far, and that's where the "art" in decision-making comes into play. Real value comes from innovation and creativity, but only when it is responsibly constrained by logic and reason.
This is under the assumption that the right has a monopoly on creativity and innovation. If that assumption is correct, then you're right. If not, which I don't think it does, I'd much rather have the left work its magic.
Jun 4, 2014 1:17pm
C

Con_Alma

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12,198 posts
Jun 4, 2014 1:26 PM
sleeper;1622572 wrote:No. The right side of the brain only disrupts the reasoning of the left; it does not add value and it does not assist in any way.

There are instinctive and intuitive properties that are a product of the right side of the brain. When tapped into appropriately they can enhance intelligence.

Understanding the presence and influence of the right brain may assist you in your quest to change a person's "deeply held beliefs".
Jun 4, 2014 1:26pm
C

Con_Alma

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12,198 posts
Jun 4, 2014 1:28 PM
sleeper;1622575 wrote:This is under the assumption that the right has a monopoly on creativity and innovation. If that assumption is correct, then you're right. If not, which I don't think it does, I'd much rather have the left work its magic.

It doesn't have to have a monopoly to have benefit. Eliminating the beneficial influences of the right brain reduces the maximum ability to decide effectively.
Jun 4, 2014 1:28pm
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sleeper

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Jun 4, 2014 1:37 PM
The left side of my brain does not follow.
Jun 4, 2014 1:37pm
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ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Jun 4, 2014 2:00 PM
Sleeper being sleeper.
Jun 4, 2014 2:00pm
V

vball10set

paying it forward

24,795 posts
Jun 4, 2014 2:05 PM
ernest_t_bass;1622604 wrote:Sleeper being sleeper.
One thing's for sure--the comedic relief he brings to this site is unparalleled.
Jun 4, 2014 2:05pm
I

I Wear Pants

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16,223 posts
Jun 4, 2014 2:34 PM
Con_Alma;1622557 wrote:Only using the left side of the brain to make decisions denies the individual of the full capacity and process available to them as a human. The most exhaustive decision making process a human can make should come from a a right brain /left brain blended, cross-over process.
The left brain/right brain thing is a myth.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0071275
Jun 4, 2014 2:34pm
V

vball10set

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Jun 4, 2014 2:44 PM
I Wear Pants;1622613 wrote:The left brain/right brain thing is a myth.
Jun 4, 2014 2:44pm
T

Tiernan

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13,021 posts
Jun 4, 2014 4:13 PM
Beat the Jesus out of them.
Jun 4, 2014 4:13pm
R

rydawg5

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2,639 posts
Jun 4, 2014 5:22 PM
I defeated mine. In 2004 I was yelling "Kerry's a Douche Vote for Boosh"

I was so hard right it wasnt even funny. I literally thought democrats were unpatriotic hippies and wanted to destroy the values of America.

I was a Republican Talking Point.

Then in 2008 I just kinda woke up. I don't know how to explain it but I just stepped back and looked at things from outside the bubble and I never got back in the bubble of lunacy called politics.
Jun 4, 2014 5:22pm
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Belly35

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9,716 posts
Jun 4, 2014 5:24 PM
Right side, left side ... Their dicks....
Jun 4, 2014 5:24pm
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Heretic

Son of the Sun

18,820 posts
Jun 4, 2014 5:33 PM
rydawg5;1622646 wrote:I defeated mine. In 2004 I was yelling "Kerry's a Douche Vote for Boosh"

I was so hard right it wasnt even funny. I literally thought democrats were unpatriotic hippies and wanted to destroy the values of America.

I was a Republican Talking Point.

Then in 2008 I just kinda woke up. I don't know how to explain it but I just stepped back and looked at things from outside the bubble and I never got back in the bubble of lunacy called politics.
I've found this site's political board is a great place to go if you want cured of being part of said bubble of lunacy, since most regulars there come off as either pretentious as fuck (they're soooo smart, but they keep entering the same circular arguments with the same people when one ounce of common sense would tell them that no minds will be changed because the person they're arguing with is just as pretentious and equally sure they're right about everything) or simply a borderline psychotic.
Jun 4, 2014 5:33pm
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vball10set

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Jun 4, 2014 5:38 PM
Belly35;1622647 wrote:Right side, left side ... Their dicks....
:confused:
Jun 4, 2014 5:38pm
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HitsRus

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9,206 posts
Jun 4, 2014 6:28 PM
Your topics are often interesting and thought-provoking, then you go into troll mode with statements like this. Why?
QFT
Jun 4, 2014 6:28pm
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HitsRus

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9,206 posts
Jun 4, 2014 6:46 PM
Originally Posted by lhslep134Not ignorance, lack of logic/reason. Or inability to separate emotion from logic/reason.

sleeper posted:
This is probably the bigger offender. Emotions have a way of disrupting even the most intelligent humans on the planet, particularly the emotion of fear.
Emotions and their interaction with our reasoning abilitities ARE what makes us human.


...as for "defeating deeply held beliefs", you can sum it up by this:

Note to yourself

Have courage to change the things I can.
Have serenity to accept the things I can't.
....and most importantly
Have the wisdom to know the difference.


It is really just a matter of minding your own business.
Jun 4, 2014 6:46pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Jun 4, 2014 7:12 PM
HitsRus;1622672 wrote:Emotions and their interaction with our reasoning abilitities ARE what makes us human.


...as for "defeating deeply held beliefs", you can sum it up by this:

Note to yourself

Have courage to change the things I can.
Have serenity to accept the things I can't.
....and most importantly
Have the wisdom to know the difference.


It is really just a matter of minding your own business.
Really a rather lame response. I've heard this proverb before and its mostly used in a religious context. Is this a rabbit hole you really want to go down again?

Mind your own business eh? I'll keep that in mind the next time you post against the choice of people to marry someone they love because they have the same genitalia. Laughable coming from a delusional believer.
Jun 4, 2014 7:12pm
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HitsRus

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9,206 posts
Jun 4, 2014 10:53 PM
Mind your own business eh? I'll keep that in mind the next time you post against the choice of people to marry someone they love because they have the same genitalia. Laughable coming from a delusional believer
Sorry puppy...wrong again. I have no problem with what you state above...go ahead and see if you can find where I posted against same sex unions. I'm pretty much conservative /libertarian....and there is nothing worse than elitists that think they know what's good for everybody, and are militant about it.

As for the proverb, it really has nothing to do with religion, but is about psychological balance and dealing with reality....something that you seem capable of only in selected spots.
Jun 4, 2014 10:53pm
I

isadore

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7,762 posts
Jun 5, 2014 12:07 AM
sleeper;1622494 wrote:Do you believe it is possible to remove/change deeply held beliefs from an individual? If so, what strategies do you find effective in doing so? If not, why do you believe so?

Most of you have seen/read my strategy on how to change the beliefs of an individual and I'm not sure my strategy is very effective. I'm looking for new ideas to improve my ability to persuade people into my line of thinking.

Thoughts? : thumbup:
if you completely abandoned the hateful views you now hold and converted to a wholesome set of beliefs, you might find more success.
Jun 5, 2014 12:07am
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fish82

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4,111 posts
Jun 5, 2014 6:55 AM
Simply choosing not to be butthurt over someone else's beliefs works pretty well for me.
Jun 5, 2014 6:55am
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Dr Winston O'Boogie

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1,799 posts
Jun 5, 2014 8:07 AM
Sleeper, you are so intelligent.
Jun 5, 2014 8:07am
V

vball10set

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Jun 5, 2014 10:45 AM
sleeper;1622494 wrote:Do you believe it is possible to remove/change deeply held beliefs from an individual? If so, what strategies do you find effective in doing so? If not, why do you believe so?

Most of you have seen/read my strategy on how to change the beliefs of an individual and I'm not sure my strategy is very effective. I'm looking for new ideas to improve my ability to persuade people into my line of thinking.

Thoughts? : thumbup:
isadore;1622750 wrote:if you completely abandoned the hateful views you now hold and converted to a wholesome set of beliefs, you might find more success.
lol, and it's even more entertaining when you reply to yourself :cool:
Jun 5, 2014 10:45am