I would like to see the entire pee wee system go away in Orrville. One step has been taken and need to have one more step to go. HS players involved in the flag system is important. I agree with Sanitizer those guys were gods to me when I played flag football.

VERY interesting discussion!!!! I have two boys, one is 4.5 and the older one is 6. They actually have full contact tackle football for my son when he turns 7 where we live!!!! SEVEN!!!! IDK, I just don't see it. Some of the 7,8 and even 10 year old games I have watched seem VERY unorganized and one or two kids seem to be superstars and that is it. The kids that do most of the scoring would probably score if no one was even blocking! LOL! I try to be careful when it comes to making any judgment on other grown men giving there free time and effort into kids these days but the coaching seemed REALLY inconsistent to me? IMO the most important thing should be seeing contact with your head up and having a good time. Some of these coaches have these kids eating raw meat and gun powder at 7!!! Teaching blocking schemes from Sunday NFL countdown when kids can't even get their shoes tied? Needless to say I think I will hold off on any tackle for my son... unless its in the backyard with the other neighborhood kids.

When I was younger in Orrville I think there were two tackle leagues? One in Wooster and one in Rittman? If I remember correctly.... Old Rider, I hope your wrong (as a Rider to the bone), but as older fans of our old program, these thin years should really help us appreciate the good ones. How many returning lettermen do we have? Does anyone know how many guys look to definitely be playing both ways? Just trying to get my head around this team from afar before the season starts. With my oldest being 6, it might be time this year for a trip to the Ville for a few Friday night games????

Sanitizer- sounds to me like it is time to move those boys back home! We need athletes....

Wooster and Rittman had pee wee in our day and it did not help their programs at all.

Numbers I'm hearing.....

28-ish kids in 10th through 12th grades.
12-ish freshmen

We will dress around 40 total on Friday night...and that will include 12 frosh.

And about the trend on numbers...I think in the last 70's, we have 175 kids in a senior class (boys & girls)....there were exactly 150 in a class when i graduated (mid 90's)....and around 115-120 now. Easy to see the trend as I've pointed out before. Folks who live in town have kids who are grown and gone. We're aging. Some younger families, but not enough.

Redrider1 I have herd some elementary classes are larger. numbers may increase again but not soon.

I have a prediction follow the girls sports for about the next 4 to 5 years. I think it is going to be a good trip. The girls are strong and have the chance to do some very special things.

There are larger classes in the elementary, but it won't mean a thing if they choose to kick a ball around with their feet. Got to get them playing football!! My son's 3rd grade class (to be 4th graders) already have a handful of athletes specializing in soccer only. The one parent is a varsity asst. for the soccer team.

Old Rider that is part of the problem, kids specializing in one sport. It drives me crazy hearing these young kids that are elementary age already just playing one sport. How do you know they might not be good in another sport? The thing is now you can play one sport almost year round in some cases, but not football at a young age. It seems to me parents feel the need to push their kid to one sport that they can be really good at and not participate in any other sport. By the time they get to high school you have a lot of one sport maybe two sport athletes. That is why the numbers drop in kids playing sports at the high school level. Where are the days when we had multiple 3 sport athletes?

Coach_08;1638095 wrote:Old Rider that is part of the problem, kids specializing in one sport. It drives me crazy hearing these young kids that are elementary age already just playing one sport. How do you know they might not be good in another sport? The thing is now you can play one sport almost year round in some cases, but not football at a young age. It seems to me parents feel the need to push their kid to one sport that they can be really good at and not participate in any other sport. By the time they get to high school you have a lot of one sport maybe two sport athletes. That is why the numbers drop in kids playing sports at the high school level. Where are the days when we had multiple 3 sport athletes?

It is interesting you bring up the specialization in one sport. People think you have to focus on one sport nowadays to be any good.
This past year on our HS baseball team that won the state title had over half of their roster that also were members of the state football title earlier in the school year.
Also, now EVERY current member of the varsity baseball team this summer also plays on the football team.

It takes COOPERATION between coaches, especially in the summer.

For a number of years I coached HS baseball in the summer and it takes two way communication. If you have a stubborn FB coach it can be very difficult. Luckily our last two HC's in football have been very understanding. If it was a big league game or tournament game in the summer and we had a kid pitching who played football he would not have that kid lift/condition that day. He would just be there at lifting to spot other kids. Usually in the tournament there would be 7 on 7's. Our HS FB coaches would ENCOURAGE the baseball players to play in the tournament game and miss the seven on seven. At times they went into a 7 on 7 using their 3rd QB on the depth chart. In turn, if they had conditioning/lifting/7 on 7 we would not schedule practice or a make up game.

The one year the first and second string QB attended ZERO 7 on 7s due to baseball games and they went on to win the FB title.


I have heard nightmares about coaches being very bullheaded and putting kids in tough spots. One place I coached had a basketball coach who was like that who would shame the kids into going to open gym in a summer over a baseball game.

I have seen first hand how two programs CAN work together and not put athletes into tough positions with threats

^^^^Agreed, your are right Voice your coaches have to be understanding as a varsity coach to allow students to be able to go to different sporting events, practices etc. if a coach or coaches make it tough on a student to shame them then your program will suffer. In my position I have seen it at certain schools in the area.

It starts with a clear statement by the AD of an expectation of support and encouragement by the Head Coaches for athletes to participate in other sports should they be interested. The AD must be consistent in his/her evaluation of their Head Coaches in their efforts to promote and support other programs.

If this isn't part of their annual evaluation you'll always have that one coach or program who selfishly doesn't have a spirit of cooperation.

Old Rider that is part of the problem, kids specializing in one sport. It drives me crazy hearing these young kids that are elementary age already just playing one sport. How do you know they might not be good in another sport? The thing is now you can play one sport almost year round in some cases, but not football at a young age. It seems to me parents feel the need to push their kid to one sport that they can be really good at and not participate in any other sport. By the time they get to high school you have a lot of one sport maybe two sport athletes. That is why the numbers drop in kids playing sports at the high school level. Where are the days when we had multiple 3 sport athletes?

I find this VERY interesting.... We were ALWAYS encouraged to participate in more than one sport. "most" football players ran track or played baseball... AT LEAST! Perhaps it is parents believing that there kids need to start specializing early on to compete in todays’ arena?

I overheard a summer travel baseball coach and a parent.... They were talking about the kind of practice this young man was going to need to put in to be successful on this team and I kind of thought, If he has to put that kind of time in to be on this team then perhaps he shouldn't be on the team???? My kids will play whatever sport they want but I will dictate the amount of time until they have the ability to understand what they are interested in and what that interest means from a dedication stand point? They will WANT to put in the time and work or simply decide to do something else they are passionate about. Man, I have already missed sporting events and practices scheduled on Sundays for my 6 year old.… That is OUR day as a family and I just don’t see the reward? IDK, I think these kids are submersed in SERIOUSLY competitive sports so early and they specialize too much and too soon. They should be in lots of different sports and work on becoming better athletes overall. One dad told me “they have to put in work on Sundays to make sure they are ready and not being outworked by other teams, not to mention all the gifted teams travel on weekends”??? I said if they (AT 6 YEARS OLD) are that far behind and need all that &#8220ractice” in the first place perhaps they just shouldn’t play the game. If my child needs Sunday practice to be on a travel team then they probably really don’t belong anyways!

I see the way some dads conduct themselves at my 6 year olds FLAG FOOTBALL games??? You should have seen some of the dads and the way they behaved last season in this football league…. These fathers thought their kids should be stone cold killers at 5 and 6 years old! Heck me and my son were taking turns doing cart wheels, smashing bugs and peeing in the woods! It should be fun and they should be learning and that’s it at that age.

To the above point these actions are probably leading these kids to thinking they NEED to specialize early to be successful???

sanitizer;1638221 wrote:I find this VERY interesting.... We were ALWAYS encouraged to participate in more than one sport. "most" football players ran track or played baseball... AT LEAST! Perhaps it is parents believing that there kids need to start specializing early on to compete in todays’ arena?

I overheard a summer travel baseball coach and a parent.... They were talking about the kind of practice this young man was going to need to put in to be successful on this team and I kind of thought, If he has to put that kind of time in to be on this team then perhaps he shouldn't be on the team???? My kids will play whatever sport they want but I will dictate the amount of time until they have the ability to understand what they are interested in and what that interest means from a dedication stand point? They will WANT to put in the time and work or simply decide to do something else they are passionate about. Man, I have already missed sporting events and practices scheduled on Sundays for my 6 year old.… That is OUR day as a family and I just don’t see the reward? IDK, I think these kids are submersed in SERIOUSLY competitive sports so early and they specialize too much and too soon. They should be in lots of different sports and work on becoming better athletes overall. One dad told me “they have to put in work on Sundays to make sure they are ready and not being outworked by other teams, not to mention all the gifted teams travel on weekends”??? I said if they (AT 6 YEARS OLD) are that far behind and need all that &#8220ractice” in the first place perhaps they just shouldn’t play the game. If my child needs Sunday practice to be on a travel team then they probably really don’t belong anyways!

I see the way some dads conduct themselves at my 6 year olds FLAG FOOTBALL games??? You should have seen some of the dads and the way they behaved last season in this football league…. These fathers thought their kids should be stone cold killers at 5 and 6 years old! Heck me and my son were taking turns doing cart wheels, smashing bugs and peeing in the woods! It should be fun and they should be learning and that’s it at that age.

To the above point these actions are probably leading these kids to thinking they NEED to specialize early to be successful???

I had this discussion a few times this summer about 'kids gotta start early' with some parents of a town my step son plays in. They have a baseball league where their 8 and 9 yr old kids pitch in the games. These games are HORRID. Walk. Walk. K. Walk. K. PB. WP. and throw in an occasional batted ball. The games last forever and it is like a lost 2 years for these kids. Only a few are able to throw strikes and then guess what happens? Those few kids are the ones who pitch all the time. So at a young age kids get turned off of pitching. Less hitting, less fielding, less base running. It is a waste of time.

When the dad's ask how we do it in our town they expect me to say we start earlier and when I tell them the kids in our town dont start pitching themselves until they are 10-11 they cannot believe it. Same goes with the youth football which brings back to the tangent we went on a bit here. Starting earlier in football isnt necessarily the answer. I think many places get the kids turned off on the game at an earlier age and maybe even some who didnt go out feel they will be left behind and dont even go out in JH. Some of the successful schools I know of that dont have midget football have great nubmers at the JH level as those kids are chomping at the bit to play football!

I had this discussion a few times this summer about 'kids gotta start early' with some parents of a town my step son plays in. They have a baseball league where their 8 and 9 yr old kids pitch in the games. These games are HORRID. Walk. Walk. K. Walk. K. PB. WP. and throw in an occasional batted ball. The games last forever and it is like a lost 2 years for these kids. Only a few are able to throw strikes and then guess what happens? Those few kids are the ones who pitch all the time. So at a young age kids get turned off of pitching. Less hitting, less fielding, less base running. It is a waste of time.

When the dad's ask how we do it in our town they expect me to say we start earlier and when I tell them the kids in our town dont start pitching themselves until they are 10-11 they cannot believe it. Same goes with the youth football which brings back to the tangent we went on a bit here. Starting earlier in football isnt necessarily the answer. I think many places get the kids turned off on the game at an earlier age and maybe even some who didnt go out feel they will be left behind and dont even go out in JH. Some of the successful schools I know of that dont have midget football have great nubmers at the JH level as those kids are chomping at the bit to play football!

Yeah, I sure didn't mean to twist the thread but was on my soap box a little... Sorry. GREAT points made here on the baseball front. I just wonder how much all these factors are playing into the limited numbers at Orrville? Or if kids just are not as into sports as some of us were? Difficult times ALWAYS force us to ask questions we normally wouldn't consider, both in the business world and in athletics. Sure hope the Ville gets it ironed out. May be a few years before they get the winning formula again from what locals are telling me...

Con_Alma;1638212 wrote:It starts with a clear statement by the AD of an expectation of support and encouragement by the Head Coaches for athletes to participate in other sports should they be interested. The AD must be consistent in his/her evaluation of their Head Coaches in their efforts to promote and support other programs.

If this isn't part of their annual evaluation you'll always have that one coach or program who selfishly doesn't have a spirit of cooperation.

Ha Ha. In my opinion this is a huge weakness for Orrville.

Kids should play as many sports as possible. Football made you a bit tougher for basketball. Baseball helps with hand/eye coordination. Basketball developed your foot work for all sports and if you played for Smitty, the practices were just an extension of football (Sanitizer would agree with that one)! Track helps in all aspects.......and soccer.........well..........that sport just sucks!!

Old Rider;1638302 wrote:Kids should play as many sports as possible. Football made you a bit tougher for basketball. Baseball helps with hand/eye coordination. Basketball developed your foot work for all sports and if you played for Smitty, the practices were just an extension of football (Sanitizer would agree with that one)! Track helps in all aspects.......and soccer.........well..........that sport just sucks!!

Where does wrestling fit in here?

rrfan;1638285 wrote:Ha Ha. In my opinion this is a huge weakness for Orrville.

Our AD is now paid a stipend, equivalent to less than min. wage if you count up all the hours he puts into it. I doubt any coach is worried about how the AD perceives him/her but that comes from the power he's given.

seems that his duties are more like a secretary that schedules buses, teams, officials & gym time as opposed to evaluation of coaches & communication of what is expected of coaches.

Other than Mac, when's the last coach to actually be canned/non-renewed?? And that was a board of Ed. Decision, not the AD.

RedRider1;1638362 wrote:Our AD is now paid a stipend, equivalent to less than min. wage if you count up all the hours he puts into it. I doubt any coach is worried about how the AD perceives him/her but that comes from the power he's given.

seems that his duties are more like a secretary that schedules buses, teams, officials & gym time as opposed to evaluation of coaches & communication of what is expected of coaches.

Other than Mac, when's the last coach to actually be canned/non-renewed?? And that was a board of Ed. Decision, not the AD.

He is still overpaid!

1_beast;1638352 wrote:Where does wrestling fit in here?

Much respect for wrestling as well. Mentally...their may not be a tougher sport!

Spoke to someone close to the program today...said numbers are a concern, but you go to war with who you have.

They want kids who want to be there, and who will compete.

Sounds like there will be ample opportunities for an underclassman to a ton of playing time. Might be "trial by fire" this year, but should pay dividends later on....hopefully.

Echoed the wish that our middle school football teams could play PAC/WCAL teams rather than the OCC with the exception of Woo & WH.

Hope the community is patient....these things run in cycles.

Where does wrestling fit in here?

I have a number of things I look for when evaluating a possible new hire. I have tier one things, two and three but around that level I start looking at the ability to be a part of a team and two things that seem to exemplify those characteristics are guys who were in the military or wrestled!!!! I have NEVER been disappointed in any new hire we have brought on board that use to wrestle. Seriously.... It was funny when you wrote this post I was reviewing a guys resume and looking for some background and he was a former Div one wrestler! LOL! Guys are tough, and know how to wake up and go to work!

RedRider1;1639682 wrote:Spoke to someone close to the program today...said numbers are a concern, but you go to war with who you have.

They want kids who want to be there, and who will compete.

Sounds like there will be ample opportunities for an underclassman to a ton of playing time. Might be "trial by fire" this year, but should pay dividends later on....hopefully.

Echoed the wish that our middle school football teams could play PAC/WCAL teams rather than the OCC with the exception of Woo & WH.

Hope the community is patient....these things run in cycles.

I agree. We have been VERY spoiled over the years. Lets not forget that we were playing in the State Semis in 2010 and the made the playoffs in 2011. A two year lapse from the playoffs is not what we are used to in Orrville, but it has happened many times since the playoffs started in 80.

My high school days we only made the playoffs twice in 4 years. It is certainly cyclical.
91.. 3-7
92.. 7-4 lost first round
93.. 5-5
95.. 12-2 lost in title game.

sanitizer;1639714 wrote:I have a number of things I look for when evaluating a possible new hire. I have tier one things, two and three but around that level I start looking at the ability to be a part of a team and two things that seem to exemplify those characteristics are guys who were in the military or wrestled!!!! I have NEVER been disappointed in any new hire we have brought on board that use to wrestle. Seriously.... It was funny when you wrote this post I was reviewing a guys resume and looking for some background and he was a former Div one wrestler! LOL! Guys are tough, and know how to wake up and go to work!

As the world turns, I hear the Military appreciates wrestlers as recruits!

Alot of wrestlers have went on to be professional fb players.

1_beast;1639758 wrote:As the world turns, I hear the Military appreciates wrestlers as recruits!

Alot of wrestlers have went on to be professional fb players.

Yes but how many professional FB players went on to be professional wrestlers ?:RpS_blink:

Blah blah blah! Poor Orrville all the studs moved out!! Lets all feel sorry for them!! Give me 28-40 kids that want to play and I will make them better!! Who gives a crap whose dad used to play and son now plays soccer and so on and so forth really who gives a crap??? Who used to live inOrrville and who moved out! All excuses!! Go win with what you have it's Been done before and can be done again! Lets start simple you have a gifted player in Austin Domer so design some plays to get the kid the ball but that won't happen and we know that! We will be small right? Keep other teams off the field by gaining 3.5 yards a play and moving the chains-3.5 yards impossible? Nope! Come on this is the OCC it isn't Ignatius and Mooney! They haven't exactly had any teams advance real far in the playoffs other than Orrville-it's a league with D2 and D3 schools that arent real good. Never have been!