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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Jul 17, 2014 2:04pm
Yeah, I definitely agree with this. Wiggins is kind of raw & untapped. LBJ was a megastar in the making. Kind of the "can't miss" that most people thought Andrew Luck was when he was drafted by the NFL. Minimal flaws and ready to make an immediate impact. Nobody REALLY knows that about Wiggins. TON of potential there but not a "can't miss" like Lebron was.robj55;1636911 wrote:There is a huge difference between raw potential and ability. People rave over Wiggins and his potential and athleticism but there are many unknowns about his game and areas to improve. Lebron James was a sure fire superstar the instant he stepped onto an NBA floor.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 17, 2014 2:10pm
Exactly, that's all I was trying to say. Lebron was the total package right away including bball IQ and intangibles, but he had to learn how to win. Wiggins could very well end up being a superstar, but Lebron was one right away.BR1986FB;1636914 wrote:Yeah, I definitely agree with this. Wiggins is kind of raw & untapped. LBJ was a megastar in the making. Kind of the "can't miss" that most people thought Andrew Luck was when he was drafted by the NFL. Minimal flaws and ready to make an immediate impact. Nobody REALLY knows that about Wiggins. TON of potential there but not a "can't miss" like Lebron was.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jul 17, 2014 2:16pm
Right because Lebron was perfect at age 19.robj55;1636911 wrote:There is a huge difference between raw potential and ability. People rave over Wiggins and his potential and athleticism but there are many unknowns about his game and areas to improve. Lebron James was a sure fire superstar the instant he stepped onto an NBA floor.
Automatik
Posts: 14,632
Jul 17, 2014 2:20pm
I don't recall anyone raving over LeBron's defense when he was 19.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Jul 17, 2014 2:24pm
Just like nobody is raving over Wiggins offensive skills. Being strong on the defensive end is a MAJOR bonus.Automatik;1636920 wrote:I don't recall anyone raving over LeBron's defense when he was 19.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 17, 2014 2:24pm
No but he was wayyy more complete of a player and his intangibles were already there. He had a much better feel for the game and an incredible ability to make others around him better with his unselfishness and vision.sleeper;1636919 wrote:Right because Lebron was perfect at age 19.
Dr. KnOiTaLL
Posts: 2,682
Jul 17, 2014 2:30pm
sleeper;1636919 wrote:Right because Lebron was perfect at age 19.
You guys are missing the point. As a rookie, LeBron had HUGE expectations coming into the league, and he lived up to them by averaging 21 ppg, 6 apg, and 5.5 rpg. While we all have high expectations, I don't think Wiggins will come close to those point and assist numbers. Yes, he has other guys that will be handling a majority of the scoring, so he won't be relied upon a ton, but in the same circumstances he would not had compiled similar statistics.Automatik;1636920 wrote:I don't recall anyone raving over LeBron's defense when he was 19.
With that said, where I think Wiggins compares SIGNIFICANTLY to LeBron is his athleticism. LeBron is one of the most impressive athletes in all of sports, IMO, and I believe Wiggins will be just as impressive as an athlete. His game is not nearly as refined as LeBron's was at that age, but his athleticism is right on par with the King.
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vball10set
Posts: 24,795
Jul 17, 2014 2:30pm
I'm sorry, and if this was already asked, I apologize--how much of Wiggins have you actually watched?robj55;1636925 wrote:No but he was wayyy more complete of a player and his intangibles were already there. He had a much better feel for the game and an incredible ability to make others around him better with his unselfishness and vision.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jul 17, 2014 2:33pm
I watched about 6 games last year, and have seen him in summer league this year. In no way am I trying to demean him, I've already said I think he will be great. Just stating that he isn't a once in a lifetime prospect like Lebron was. Wiggins could definitely end up being a superstar.vball10set;1636929 wrote:I'm sorry, and if this was already asked, I apologize--how much of Wiggins have you actually watched?
Automatik
Posts: 14,632
Jul 17, 2014 2:33pm
Dr. KnOiTaLL;1636928 wrote:You guys are missing the point. As a rookie, LeBron had HUGE expectations coming into the league, and he lived up to them by averaging 21 ppg, 6 apg, and 5.5 rpg. While we all have high expectations, I don't think Wiggins will come close to those point and assist numbers. Yes, he has other guys that will be handling a majority of the scoring, so he won't be relied upon a ton, but in the same circumstances he would not had compiled similar statistics.
With that said, where I think Wiggins compares SIGNIFICANTLY to LeBron is his athleticism. LeBron is one of the most impressive athletes in all of sports, IMO, and I believe Wiggins will be just as impressive as an athlete. His game is not nearly as refined as LeBron's was at that age, but his athleticism is right on par with the King.
I agree with all of this.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Jul 17, 2014 2:33pm
I agree with this. Athleticism is through the roof but he's still raw.Dr. KnOiTaLL;1636928 wrote: With that said, where I think Wiggins compares SIGNIFICANTLY to LeBron is his athleticism. LeBron is one of the most impressive athletes in all of sports, IMO, and I believe Wiggins will be just as impressive as an athlete. His game is not nearly as refined as LeBron's was at that age, but his athleticism is right on par with the King.
If you want to compare him (not you, KnOiTaLL) to LBJ, "hypothetically" trade him to the T-Wolves and look at what type of rookie season he'd have (I know that sounds weird). Bet he wouldn't put up nearly the numbers LBJ did as a rookie. He'll be good but it's going to take time and no way is he as much of a sure thing as Lebron was.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jul 17, 2014 2:39pm
Or his jump shot.Automatik;1636920 wrote:I don't recall anyone raving over LeBron's defense when he was 19.
Dr. KnOiTaLL
Posts: 2,682
Jul 17, 2014 2:56pm
Yeah, that goes to show that even top players in NBA history had to constantly work to improve their game. LeBron was a poor shooter coming into the league. He's definitely improved that part of his game. Not saying he's automatic or anything, but much improved from 03-04sleeper;1636936 wrote:Or his jump shot.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jul 17, 2014 3:08pm
That's exactly my point. The comparisons are there and are accurate. There's no guarantee he becomes "the next Lebron" but to say he doesn't have that game changing potential is ignorant.Dr. KnOiTaLL;1636947 wrote:Yeah, that goes to show that even top players in NBA history had to constantly work to improve their game. LeBron was a poor shooter coming into the league. He's definitely improved that part of his game. Not saying he's automatic or anything, but much improved from 03-04
Automatik
Posts: 14,632
Jul 17, 2014 3:20pm
ernest_t_bass
Posts: 24,984
Jul 17, 2014 3:22pm
Why does the front office seem so incompetent?Automatik;1636952 wrote:Now willing to dump Wiggins?
http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20140717/cleveland-cavaliers-now-willing-to-include-wiggins-in-kevin-love-trade-offer
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 17, 2014 3:23pm
lol I call complete BS on that rumor. It definitely didn't come from us, because our FO under Gilbert doesn't leak anything. Ever. IMO it came from Minnesota's camp because the only one who benefits from this rumor is them by having other teams up their offers if we're offering Wiggins. Which we're not.
Mulva
Posts: 13,650
Jul 17, 2014 3:29pm
I still won't be convinced until his contract is signed.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Jul 17, 2014 3:32pm
I have been hearing that he's no longer untouchable but that proposed deal is giving up WAY too much and you don't do any deal unless Love agrees to the extension.lhslep134;1636954 wrote:lol I call complete BS on that rumor. It definitely didn't come from us, because our FO under Gilbert doesn't leak anything. Ever. IMO it came from Minnesota's camp because the only one who benefits from this rumor is them by having other teams up their offers if we're offering Wiggins. Which we're not.
Dr. KnOiTaLL
Posts: 2,682
Jul 17, 2014 3:47pm
Automatik;1636952 wrote:Now willing to dump Wiggins?
http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20140717/cleveland-cavaliers-now-willing-to-include-wiggins-in-kevin-love-trade-offer
ernest_t_bass;1636953 wrote:Why does the front office seem so incompetent?
Joe Lull (@LullOnSports) says that he thinks the Cavs constant refusal to include Wiggins has been more for posturing to increase his value. I could definitely see that being the case as it would allow the Cavs to obtain Love for less than what the Wolves were initially asking. Additionally, he compared Wiggins to Shawn Marion when he was in his prime. He suggested that Wiggins has the potential to be better than Marion, but a similar type of player.BR1986FB;1636956 wrote:I have been hearing that he's no longer untouchable but that proposed deal is giving up WAY too much and you don't do any deal unless Love agrees to the extension.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 17, 2014 4:07pm
We can't offer anything less due to the salaries that need to match up. Wiggins right now counts as $0, and once he signs, he can't be traded for 30 days. So Lull is basically talking out of his ass.Dr. KnOiTaLL;1636958 wrote:Joe Lull (@LullOnSports) says that he thinks the Cavs constant refusal to include Wiggins has been more for posturing to increase his value. I could definitely see that being the case as it would allow the Cavs to obtain Love for less than what the Wolves were initially asking.
Lovejoy1984
Posts: 5,277
Jul 17, 2014 4:16pm
If the T'Wolves stick on needing Wiggins, it's time to move on.
Call Danny Ferry, offer him Dion, TT, #1, for Horford
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ks2r7ac
Then if he says no, call Memphis
Same offer w/ Haywood for Marc Gasol
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l7l26f2
Obviously can add more #1s if needed to work, but Salary's match up.
Call Danny Ferry, offer him Dion, TT, #1, for Horford
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ks2r7ac
Same offer w/ Haywood for Marc Gasol
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l7l26f2
Obviously can add more #1s if needed to work, but Salary's match up.
Mulva
Posts: 13,650
Jul 17, 2014 4:25pm
There's a cap hold for first round picks. It doesn't count as $0.lhslep134;1636959 wrote:We can't offer anything less due to the salaries that need to match up. Wiggins right now counts as $0, and once he signs, he can't be traded for 30 days. So Lull is basically talking out of his ass.
ZWICK 4 PREZ
Posts: 7,733
Jul 17, 2014 4:30pm
lhslep134;1636959 wrote:We can't offer anything less due to the salaries that need to match up. Wiggins right now counts as $0, and once he signs, he can't be traded for 30 days. So Lull is basically talking out of his ass.
Isnt there a cap hold since he's a rookie. He's not signed but there's a scaled value as a guaranteed rookie contract.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 17, 2014 4:40pm
Mulva;1636966 wrote:There's a cap hold for first round picks. It doesn't count as $0.
Shit yeah you're right good call. I know we're signing him for 120% of the slot but I forgot the cap hold is there even without the signature for trading purposes.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1636968 wrote:Isnt there a cap hold since he's a rookie. He's not signed but there's a scaled value as a guaranteed rookie contract.
But it's only for $5M so we'd still need to give up more than just Bennett, so how can that really be considered a lesser package?