like_that
Posts: 26,625
Jul 14, 2014 6:50am
All depends on who they trade. If it's wiggins I will feel that way. I wouldn't QQ at all of we pull off that rumored 3 team trade without wiggins.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1635892 wrote:Any one feel Cleveland would be better off long term to not trade for Love? Yeah you'll have to pay him more next year, but I don't want to lose the guys for him.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jul 14, 2014 7:44am
I actually don't want to trade for Love. I like the team that we have right now. Plus I think the Wolves are in a tough spot and will either lose Love for free(which the Cavs could sign if Lebron opts out and re-ups) or trade him for peanuts.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1635892 wrote:Any one feel Cleveland would be better off long term to not trade for Love? Yeah you'll have to pay him more next year, but I don't want to lose the guys for him.
like_that
Posts: 26,625
Jul 14, 2014 7:46am
Yeah, the longer Minnesota takes, the lower his value is for them. They would be smart to trade him before training camp begins.sleeper;1635896 wrote:I actually don't want to trade for Love. I like the team that we have right now. Plus I think the Wolves are in a tough spot and will either lose Love for free(which the Cavs could sign if Lebron opts out and re-ups) or trade him for peanuts.
Benny The Jet
Posts: 2,987
Jul 14, 2014 8:09am
I feel like if we drag our feet though,someone else will swipe in and get him. It's not like it's the Cavs or nothing for him.
like_that
Posts: 26,625
Jul 14, 2014 8:15am
Then let someone else overpay for him only for him not to sign an extension.Benny The Jet;1635907 wrote:I feel like if we drag our feet though,someone else will swipe in and get him. It's not like it's the Cavs or nothing for him.
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Jul 14, 2014 8:16am
Yeah I don't think we should overpay for Love. Maybe if he was a great defender but the guy is basically all offense. I would love to get him but not if we have to empty our supporting cast.
Classyposter58
Posts: 6,321
Jul 14, 2014 10:22am
Lets not forget though, Kevin Love is the best PF in the NBA. It's not like he's just some good player, he's an All-NBA talent
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Jul 14, 2014 10:23am
He can't stay healthy and doesn't play def. I'll take several PFs over him. Still a great player but not best in the association.Classyposter58;1635928 wrote:Lets not forget though, Kevin Love is the best PF in the NBA. It's not like he's just some good player, he's an All-NBA talent
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Jul 14, 2014 11:01am
He is not the best PF in the league.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 14, 2014 11:31am
Commander of Awesome;1635929 wrote:He can't stay healthy and doesn't play def. I'll take several PFs over him. Still a great player but not best in the association.
TheseLaley23;1635939 wrote:He is not the best PF in the league.
ohiobucks1
Posts: 4,915
Jul 14, 2014 11:33am
Top 4, though IMO.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 14, 2014 11:37am
Commander of Awesome;1635929 wrote:He can't stay healthy and doesn't play def. I'll take several PFs over him. Still a great player but not best in the association.
He's not the PF I'd want on my team, but he's got a pretty good argument that he's the best.Laley23;1635939 wrote:He is not the best PF in the league.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2014&year_max=2014&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&qual=&c1stat=ws&c1comp=gt&c1val=5&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws
#1 PF in win shares. Now obviously without looking the response is: duh, most of that will be offensive win shares. Well he was 11th among F-C (including SF's) in defensive win shares. Hmm.
That doesn't completely mesh with the whole "he doesn't play D" narrative. At the least, it suggests he plays decent D.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Jul 14, 2014 11:51am
Yes it does. I'm interested in this and will dig into it tonight if I have time. Always fascinating with advanced stats tell a different narrative than what I think I see. Thanks for sharing.lhslep134;1635944 wrote:He's not the PF I'd want on my team, but he's got a pretty good argument that he's the best.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2014&year_max=2014&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&qual=&c1stat=ws&c1comp=gt&c1val=5&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws
#1 PF in win shares. Now obviously without looking the response is: duh, most of that will be offensive win shares. Well he was 11th among F-C (including SF's) in defensive win shares. Hmm.
That doesn't completely mesh with the whole "he doesn't play D" narrative. At the least, it suggests he plays decent D.
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Jul 14, 2014 11:51am
I would just take a few guys ahead of him. Mostly because of the injury factor and the fact he isn't really a post up player.
wildcats20
Posts: 27,794
Jul 14, 2014 11:57am
Just curious as to who?
I'm not disagreeing with you, just curious.
I'm not disagreeing with you, just curious.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 14, 2014 12:00pm
Me too. Looking at that list of F/F-C I'd rather have Ibaka and Davis for sure, and maybe Griffin. But man when you factor in he's only 25? Makes ya thinkLaley23;1635946 wrote:I would just take a few guys ahead of him. Mostly because of the injury factor and the fact he isn't really a post up player.
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Jul 14, 2014 12:04pm
Love is fantastic, and as the primary option, not sure there is anyone better. But for a team with Kyrie and LeBron, and a chance to be great defensively, I'd take someone like West, Ibaka and maybe Gasol. If we factor in C, give me Davis.
Not sure Id definitively say anyone of them is better, but might fit the team in Cleveland better, especially in the playoffs.
Not sure Id definitively say anyone of them is better, but might fit the team in Cleveland better, especially in the playoffs.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 14, 2014 12:07pm
Yeah I really wish I could go back and watch some tape from this year but I don't have time. Let me know if you see anything interesting.Commander of Awesome;1635945 wrote:Yes it does. I'm interested in this and will dig into it tonight if I have time. Always fascinating with advanced stats tell a different narrative than what I think I see. Thanks for sharing.
FWIW (probably nothing) I was watching some of Chicago's summer league game as a study break to see McBuckets (he's good) and they had Thibodeau on air talking about defense with him. Thibs response was basically it's really hard to play 1 on 1 D no matter what in the NBA so as long as he plays with a high IQ and played within the Bulls' defensive system he would be just fine.
Made me think that could be us with Love, until I remembered we have no elite rim protector to anchor our D ala Noah or M. Gasol
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 14, 2014 12:08pm
The age thing is that got me with West. He was awesome for Indiana, especially taking over in the playoffs. But not for our team going forward at 33.Laley23;1635951 wrote:I'd take someone like West.
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Jul 14, 2014 12:11pm
Oh im only speaking of this year. No way I take West moving forward over Love.lhslep134;1635954 wrote:The age thing is that got me with West. He was awesome for Indiana, especially taking over in the playoffs. But not for our team going forward at 33.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Jul 14, 2014 12:12pm
Anyone interested in Elton brand? Saw his name floating around twitter.
wildcats20
Posts: 27,794
Jul 14, 2014 12:13pm
I honestly didn't even know a was still in the League.Commander of Awesome;1635958 wrote:Anyone interested in Elton brand? Saw his name floating around twitter.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jul 14, 2014 12:16pm
Speaking of the Pacers, are they still subtlely trying to move Hibbert?Laley23;1635956 wrote:Oh im only speaking of this year. No way I take West moving forward over Love.
mucalum49
Posts: 1,639
Jul 14, 2014 12:37pm
Here's a list of free agent centers/power forwards. Pretty slim pickings.
http://hoopshype.com/free_agency/centers_2014.htm
http://hoopshype.com/free_agency/power_forwards_2014.htm
Kevin Seraphin is a Rich Paul agent but also an RFA. We'd probably get matched for whatever we could offer him. But he'd be a decent defensive big. I'd take a flyer on Okafor being healthy, but again, he'll likely get a (slightly) bigger deal than the minimum.
http://hoopshype.com/free_agency/centers_2014.htm
http://hoopshype.com/free_agency/power_forwards_2014.htm
Kevin Seraphin is a Rich Paul agent but also an RFA. We'd probably get matched for whatever we could offer him. But he'd be a decent defensive big. I'd take a flyer on Okafor being healthy, but again, he'll likely get a (slightly) bigger deal than the minimum.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jul 14, 2014 12:38pm
I'd give Oden another run but I'm a homer.mucalum49;1635964 wrote:Here's a list of free agent centers/power forwards. Pretty slim pickings.
http://hoopshype.com/free_agency/centers_2014.htm
http://hoopshype.com/free_agency/power_forwards_2014.htm
Kevin Seraphin is a Rich Paul agent but also an RFA. We'd probably get matched for whatever we could offer him. But he'd be a decent defensive big. I'd take a flyer on Okafor being healthy, but again, he'll likely get a (slightly) bigger deal than the minimum.