cruiser_96;1607579 wrote:
My point: Two alternatives: theistic universe or atheistic universe. Your choice. While you can have your own opinion on the matter, you cannot have your own truth on the matter.

Isn't this true for all sides?

cruiser_96;1607579 wrote:Sure you do! You believe the universe magically came into being from nothing. You've already stated "I don't know." Relax. I heard you the first time.

My point: Two alternatives: theistic universe or atheistic universe. Your choice. While you can have your own opinion on the matter, you cannot have your own truth on the matter.

Seek professional help. You are absolutely delusional.

WebFire;1607580 wrote:Isn't this true for all sides?

Not sides, necessarily, but people. You, me, my mom, dad, brother, wife, kids...etc. We must all be in the pursuit of finding - not OUR truth - but rather THE Truth.

sleeper;1607582 wrote:Seek professional help. You are absolutely delusional.

Delusional because I believe in two positions?

...ok.

cruiser_96;1607585 wrote:Delusional because I believe in two positions?

...ok.

Your mom did too.

#roasted #lol

dlazz;1607587 wrote:Your mom did too.

#roasted #lol

#Burn #GotMeGood

Maybe we should meet up in Sunbury! (Ha! Kidding, BTW. Just a little cross-thread (attempt at) humor.

Wait? Now we need a religion (or theistic system) in place to determine values and what is right/wrong?

So much for intelligence, logic and free will having anything to do with stuff...

Or...

People make laws. People make rules. Some are obviously stupid (ie: any of those "look at these wacky town laws from 1850 that are still on the books, if not enforced" tidbits that come up from time to time) and some are flawed (as when non-violent drug offenders find themselves doing more time than rapists and the like), but the intent at the time they were brought into being was to promote a certain type of behavior. Anyone capable of reasoning is capable of coming up with a code — legal, moral or otherwise. No otherworldly force is necessary. If anything, religion is just a tool used by the rule-makers as a way to induce people into following their rules. "Be a good person, subservient to your betters and don't try to rise above what big brother wants you to be...and you'll be rewarded in the hereafter!"

Of course, this always ends up being one of those touchy subjects due to the whole "well, some of the Old Testament is "god's" word and a bunch of it is just the laws of the time" thing that gets brought up whenever someone uses some of the bizarre OT rules from Leviticus in a debate, but if you take one of the big ones that gets attributed to the deity (THOU SHALT NOT KILL), I can state that I've done a good job to adhere to that for my entire life and my worries about my eternal soul don't really apply to my decisioning in that. Whether it be "don't want to go to jail", "don't want to go on the run" or "not geared in a way where I respond to adversity with insane degrees of violence", any of those hold more importance to me than the potential for afterlife judgment.

And if one simply takes those words as God's law, well, I feel bad for all the policemen or armed forces personnel who've had to kill as part of their duties. Because I still haven't found a copy of the bible with an "*" next to that commandment and then a footnote with all the examples where it's okay to ignore those words.

And that's a big problem I have with the concept of personally being a believer. You have a book that is considered the holy doctrine for your religion. Part of it is a straight history tinged by religious bias (ie: the parts through the OT where it is strongly insinuated that a region's successes and failings were solely determined by its ruler's adherence to the proper religion) with the rest being a combination of rules to live by and stories of men and women who tended to have some sort of contact with divinity.

And whenever those stories get brought up in these arguments, I've noticed a tendency for people to justify the more outlandish-sounding tales by essentially saying that things didn't necessarily happen in that precise manner and that you have to read into the actual meaning. Which, to me, is a way of saying that we're talking about a moral code built upon a foundation of lies, exaggerations and make-believe.

Heretic: religion and theistic universe are not synonymous.

cruiser_96;1607595 wrote:Heretic: religion and theistic universe are not synonymous.

religion=a money grab meant to make people feel good about life/dying. Religion isn't about what you think it is. You judge people every day. You look down on people every day. You don't go out of your way to help others that are less fortunate to you. Your "religion" is based on all those things, and instead you most likely go to church once a week, donate some money, and consider yourself saved. You don't do anything your "god" teaches you. You don't do anything your religion teaches you. You simply believe in something that makes you feel good, therefore you feel good about doing so. It doesn't make you a better person. It just makes you an arrogant jackass.

cruiser_96;1607595 wrote:Heretic: religion and theistic universe are not synonymous.

More like autistic universe.

#owned #lol

DeyDurkie: are you saying I do all of those things??????

dlazz: you are on a roll today. Reps to you.

cruiser_96;1607585 wrote:Delusional because I believe in two positions?

...ok.

Delusional because you 'know' the truth yet can't prove it, you just 'know'. LOL

sleeper;1607603 wrote:Delusional because you 'know' the truth yet can't prove it, you just 'know'. LOL

All along I've stated that the evidence points to a Theistic Universe. I've used the fact that nothing to something does not happen. Something outside of ourselves created us. You disagree. Your position "I don't know." I read that.

We disagree on starting points. I understand this.

cruiser_96;1607606 wrote:All along I've stated that the evidence points to a Theistic Universe. I've used the fact that nothing to something does not happen. Something outside of ourselves created us. You disagree. Your position "I don't know." I read that.

We disagree on starting points. I understand this.

Oh really? Where is all of this evidence? Something from nothing? You mean like the god that came from nothing because he has his own special rules?

God exist outside of time. He can't help it if He is God.

cruiser_96;1607608 wrote:God exist outside of time. He can't help it if He is God.

How convenient.

cruiser_96;1607601 wrote:DeyDurkie: are you saying I do all of those things??????

dlazz: you are on a roll today. Reps to you.

Yes I am.

DeyDurkie5;1607619 wrote:Yes I am.

What experience with me do you base that on? Have we ever met???

While, yes, we all have blind spots when it comes to our behavior, I don't think my blind spots are so big that I'd miss those qualities in my own life. Perhaps you could recall one of the instances when I acted like that. ...help jog my memory.

DeyDurkie5;1607599 wrote:religion=a money grab meant to make people feel good about life/dying. Religion isn't about what you think it is. You judge people every day. You look down on people every day. You don't go out of your way to help others that are less fortunate to you. Your "religion" is based on all those things, and instead you most likely go to church once a week, donate some money, and consider yourself saved. You don't do anything your "god" teaches you. You don't do anything your religion teaches you. You simply believe in something that makes you feel good, therefore you feel good about doing so. It doesn't make you a better person. It just makes you an arrogant jackass.

I tend to agree with most of what you said. However some people do go out of there way to help less fortunate souls. There are some people who do nothing but good, but not many.

Oh really? Where is all of this evidence? Something from nothing? You mean like the god that came from nothing because he has his own special rules?

God exist outside of time. He can't help it if He is God.

How convenient

Not convienient. Necessary and True. Everything in this universe has a cause...something cannot come from nothing.....right back to the spark of the Big Bang....(or if the Big bang was not actually the beginning whatever eventuallly is considered the beginning.)

Therefore, whatever caused the beginning of the our universe is outside our universe.

HitsRus;1607723 wrote:Not convienient. Necessary and True. Everything in this universe has a cause...something cannot come from nothing.....right back to the spark of the Big Bang....(or if the Big bang was not actually the beginning whatever eventuallly is considered the beginning.)

Therefore, whatever caused the beginning of the our universe is outside our universe.

Contradict much?

Damn, you know shit is getting real when Heretic has an O-trap-esque post.

What part don't you understand? Do I need to use smaller words? It's as basic a logic problem as there is. A=B, If something doesn't equal B, it can't equal A.
Things of this universe require a cause. It doesn't have a cause, it is not of this universe.

So..... God has no cause?

^^^"God" is not of this universe. I merely am trying to provide some clarity to sleeper and cruiser's argument.