wildcats20;1563700 wrote:It would be very hypocritical to vote for one and not the other.

Well....I just have my reason. Clemens was all but done.....then he has his fastball go from. 91-92 in Boston to 96-98 for the Blue Jays and wins 4 more Cy young awards.

Sonofanump;1563703 wrote:Is Piazza confirmed or alleged steroids?
Jack Morris belongs.

He's alleged with some because no way could you keep him out otherwise.

I'm mixed on Morris

I'm not surprised by the unanimity....the writers at ESPN are probably a little inbred in their baseball thinking. I'd be really surprised if their top three ALL get a nod.

Here's the classic example of idiocy when it comes to the BBWAA and why nobody got elected last year.....Ken Gurnick of MLB.com, formerly of the L.A. Herald Examiner who has a vote said Tuesday (quoted from an article by AP writer Ronald Blum) that the 'only player he voted for' was Jack Morris....saying " To me, I didn't exclude Maddux, I excluded everybody from the steroid era." Gurnick goes on to say that he intends to continue to 'abstain' in future elections.
Seriously dude? You are not going to vote for a 355 game winner just because he 'came from the steroid era'?....and if you are not going to use your votes why do you even take a ballot.

HitsRus;1564729 wrote:Here's the classic example of idiocy when it comes to the BBWAA and why nobody got elected last year.....Ken Gurnick of MLB.com, formerly of the L.A. Herald Examiner who has a vote said Tuesday (quoted from an article by AP writer Ronald Blum) that the 'only player he voted for' was Jack Morris....saying " To me, I didn't exclude Maddux, I excluded everybody from the steroid era." Gurnick goes on to say that he intends to continue to 'abstain' in future elections.
Seriously dude? You are not going to vote for a 355 game winner just because he 'came from the steroid era'?....and if you are not going to use your votes why do you even take a ballot.

That is rediculous.
I was a fan of Clemens but one cannot deny his spike late in his career around the time the allegations state he started.

Maddux was very consistant for a very long time. He didnt all of a sudden hit the scene, or later in his career when he was sliding a bit and all of a sudden start pitching awesome. If I would have one person to bet on who didnt juice, it would be GM.

http://www.toledoblade.com/sports/2014/01/08/Maddux-Glavine-Thomas-elected-to-Hall-of-Fame.html

Sonofanump;1563703 wrote:Is Piazza confirmed or alleged steroids?

The only "evidence" I've heard is that he never lit it up in the minors like he did in the majors, and that he had acne on his back. Hope I'm never on trial and the jury is made up of baseball writers.

They gotta change this shit. 16 people didn't vote for Greg Maddux...go fuck yourselves.

Some voters (apparently at least 15) refused to vote for anyone that played during that era? Don't take Ironman92's recess because S&L* is being a jackass.

Lee Smith and Alan Trammel have list over 100 votes EACH the last two years???? WTF? Nothing changed....you get to vote for up to 10 and only 3 have made it the last two years, so why have 100 voters changed their minds?

Tim Raines had some moments of crack use....great, now put him in the fucking HOF. Did the Football voters keep out Rod Woodson because he played the same time as Deion. If Rickey never played....Rock would've already been in.

Craig Biggio....everything, everything you want in a ball player Craig Biggio was it. No he didn't have the high end of Robbie Alomar (ridiculous he didn't make it 1st go)....Biggio played his whole career for 1 team during times when no one did that, changed from catcher (was an AS catcher) to 2nd base (perennial AS, and GG winner) to CF and OF when requested to help his team. Played every fucking game exactly like every fucking voter would want their kid to play.

None of that stuff is HOF material but those inglorious bastards use whatever shit they want to not vote for people (can't let anyone unanimous, he used drugs, he gambled, he wasn't good to media, can't be in steroid era)....why can't these pluses (sp) be used on borderline guys? Oh not to mention but 3060 hits, 1800+ runs, 665 doubles......show me one eligible player, not in the steroid discussion even close to any one of those numbers. How many player who primarily played 2nd base (a defensive position not reliant on great offensive production) have made it to. 3,000 hits?

*thanks for letting me use you as an example lol

Deadspin's vote came from Dan Le Batard. They also say they plan to purchase a vote for next year's election.

sportswizuhrd;1564896 wrote:Deadspin's vote came from Dan Le Batard. They also say they plan to purchase a vote for next year's election.

Deadspin didn't keep Biggio out.

I hope deadspin is able to buy more than one vote next year. The BBWA needs to go fuck themselves.

like_that;1564909 wrote:I hope deadspin is able to buy more than one vote next year. The BBWA needs to go fuck themselves.

This

Several don't even cover baseball anymore.

Craig Biggio....everything, everything you want in a ball player Craig Biggio was it. No he didn't have the high end of Robbie Alomar (ridiculous he didn't make it 1st go)....Biggio played his whole career for 1 team during times when no one did that, changed from catcher (was an AS catcher) to 2nd base (perennial AS, and GG winner) to CF and OF when requested to help his team. Played every fucking game exactly like every fucking voter would want their kid to play.

....and he missed induction by 2 votes. Then you have baseball writers like Gurnick who had 10 votes and used only 1....out of some misguided notion of guilt by association. Like the players who must get named on a 5%(?) of the ballots to stay on the list next year...and/or get 75% to get inducted...baseball writers should have to use their votes...or they don't get to vote the next year.

At first i wa pissed at LebaRetard for doing that, but Deadspins vote were all reasonable. I would not have included the steriod guys, but at least they voted for guys who had numbers and it didnt keep out biggio.

MandM had some guys who got votes on the ballot and some of those guys were jokes!

thavoice;1565024 wrote:At first i wa pissed at LebaRetard for doing that, but Deadspins vote were all reasonable. I would not have included the steriod guys, but at least they voted for guys who had numbers and it didnt keep out biggio.

MandM had some guys who got votes on the ballot and some of those guys were jokes!

Yeah, I was on BucsDugout and they linked to a column that said guys like Jacque Jones and Armando Benitez got votes. WHAT THE HELL!?!?!?

Heretic;1565101 wrote:Yeah, I was on BucsDugout and they linked to a column that said guys like Jacque Jones and Armando Benitez got votes. WHAT THE HELL!?!?!?

Yep, those were the guys.

Have to believe they are writers who are/were friends of those guys and decided to vote for them for the hell of it.

I would like to see Biggio get in, but I agree he is on the fringe. I like the fact he willingly moved positions, twice, and excelled.



How about next year with Pedro Martinez? Only like 215 wins, but I believe has only 100 losses so a great winning %, over 3k strikeouts, and a sub 3 ERA which is amazing in that era.

Pedro is a 1st ballot, 90% guy. Dominated for 10 years.

Laley23;1565122 wrote:Pedro is a 1st ballot, 90% guy. Dominated for 10 years.

I would think so too, but was wondering if only 212 or so wins would be enough.
What you think about Smoltz?

Laley23;1565122 wrote:Pedro is a 1st ballot, 90% guy. Dominated for 10 years.

Best pitcher since Sandy Koufax.

Longevity and counting stats hurt him, but his split stats are ridiculous. Career WHIP like 1.02...insane. Pitched THROUGH the steroid era too...

Yeah, looking more into it, he and randy Johnson are both probably around 95% guys.

thavoice;1565024 wrote:At first i wa pissed at LebaRetard for doing that, but Deadspins vote were all reasonable. I would not have included the steriod guys, but at least they voted for guys who had numbers and it didnt keep out biggio.

MandM had some guys who got votes on the ballot and some of those guys were jokes!

I assume you mean the guys who were linked to steroids and not the guys who played during that era. It is a complete joke that some writers refuse to vote for any player in that era. I hate these cranky old fucks who hardly pay attention anymore. The fact that players such as Ricky Henderson and Maddux were not unanimous decisions just shows how flawed the system is.

Ironman92;1565305 wrote:

That is hard to believe! Surely in his 20,000+ BFs he either intentionally walked or unintentionally intentionally walked at least 133.

^^^Maddux control of the strike zone was so good, he convinced some umpires that if he threw a pitch, it had to be a strike....even if it was a few inches off the plate .

A Roid's suspension is "reduced" to 162 games. Which means he will miss the entire 2014 season.