sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jun 24, 2014 2:21pm
Wade and Bosh are both the problem. There is a zero percent chance Lebron stays if Wade and Bosh keep their current deals. They are way overpaid.lhslep134;1629461 wrote:Sleeper you and I are both in agreement the Heat 's current model (2013/14) didn't work. However, I vehemently stand by my assertion that Bosh had nothing to do with it, both on the court with his vastly expansive game and off the court, with his $19M salary. Again, Bosh earned his money, or at the very least, most of it.
The problem is very simple, and his name is Dwayne Wade. Wade's massively disproportionate salary to performance ratio, when combined with them being "hamstrung"* by the limited space available, contributed way more to the Heat's demise this year than Bosh.
Disagree?
*I'm sorry but if you're a billionaire owner, I'm not going to feel sorry you don't want to pay a few extra million dollars in salary cap penalties.
Dr. KnOiTaLL
Posts: 2,682
Jun 24, 2014 2:30pm
Um, that post was in regards to Agent Zero lol. I think you are correct in the fact that Bosh never won a playoff series.sleeper;1629472 wrote:Congrats. Bosh had very little to do with the team at that point and was paid an appropriate $3.1. Cut his current salary around that and you'd get some value out of him.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jun 24, 2014 2:50pm
The point still stands.Dr. KnOiTaLL;1629474 wrote:Um, that post was in regards to Agent Zero lol. I think you are correct in the fact that Bosh never won a playoff series.
K
KB0938
Posts: 900
Jun 24, 2014 2:52pm
I agre hes a great player, but the All star argument is weak. Especially when fan voting can get damn near anybody in, its a popularity contest reallylhslep134;1629431 wrote:Read the article and tell he he's good at best. I'll have a good chuckle. He's an perennial all star. Perennial all stars = fantastic players (not star, not superstar, but fantastic).
You're misconstruing fantastic to mean superstar, or even a top 10 player.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jun 24, 2014 2:58pm
It's only a weak argument when the player in question getting voting in is disproportionate to their skill level (Iverson last few years of his career, Kobe this year, Yao when he was hurt for the first half of the year).KB0938;1629477 wrote:I agre hes a great player, but the All star argument is weak. Especially when fan voting can get damn near anybody in, its a popularity contest really
Also, it's only a weak argument when using to talk about starters. Voters don't vote in the rest of the team (did you forget about that?)
Bosh doesn't apply to either of those scenarios. All of his all-star appearances have been qualified. So while I agree with your general premise, it has no application here.
Edit: I just looked, Bosh has only been voted in to 1 of his 11 appearances (starter in 2007).
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jun 24, 2014 3:34pm
He averaged 17 and 9 as a 20 year old kid.sleeper;1629472 wrote:Congrats. Bosh had very little to do with the team at that point and was paid an appropriate $3.1. Cut his current salary around that and you'd get some value out of him.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jun 24, 2014 3:36pm
He's making the team based on merit though and production. If he were averaging pedestrian numbers I could see your point.KB0938;1629477 wrote:I agre hes a great player, but the All star argument is weak. Especially when fan voting can get damn near anybody in, its a popularity contest really
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jun 24, 2014 3:52pm
Not difficult to do on a shitty team when you are the main target.robj55;1629484 wrote:He averaged 17 and 9 as a 20 year old kid.
Not sure why people think Bosh is still a top tier player. He's average at best and not worth $20M a year.
Rotinaj
Posts: 7,699
Jun 24, 2014 3:53pm
Not worth 20 but certainly worth more than 10.
Trueblue23
Posts: 7,463
Jun 24, 2014 6:27pm
I wouldn't pay Wade or Bosh $10 mill a year. No way.
Trueblue23
Posts: 7,463
Jun 24, 2014 6:28pm
I hope Wade and Bosh opt out, then Pat Riley gives em a big FUCK YOU and doesn't offer them a deal LOL
F
friendfromlowry
Posts: 6,239
Jun 24, 2014 6:28pm
The article you cited exemplified how Bosh has expanded his game and accepted a role considerably different than what he was responsible for in Toronto. However, the theme throughout the finals was that Lebron needed more help -- from the bench and the other two star players. I don't think you can say Bosh earned his keep ($19/mil a year anyways) when he averaged 14/5 a game and they were losing by 15-20 points. His (finals) numbers aren't too far off from what Wade's were.lhslep134;1629461 wrote:Sleeper you and I are both in agreement the Heat 's current model (2013/14) didn't work. However, I vehemently stand by my assertion that Bosh had nothing to do with it, both on the court with his vastly expansive game and off the court, with his $19M salary. Again, Bosh earned his money, or at the very least, most of it.
I think Wade should take a paycut simply because he's hurt a third of the season. It's not fair that he be earning similar money to Lebron, who's busting ass all season long while Wade sits out 28 games.
C
Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Jun 24, 2014 6:30pm
Wade would be crazy to opt out. He's not worth what he's being paid now.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jun 24, 2014 6:32pm
Bet you were cool with Kobe getting 30, 24 and 25 though.Trueblue23;1629522 wrote:I wouldn't pay Wade or Bosh $10 mill a year. No way.
Lovejoy1984
Posts: 5,277
Jun 24, 2014 6:33pm
Kings-Pistons talking deal.
Josh Smith, for some scrubs.
Josh Smith, for some scrubs.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jun 24, 2014 6:33pm
Average players aren't all stars and don't averaged 17 ppg on 12 shots per game.sleeper;1629491 wrote:Not difficult to do on a shitty team when you are the main target.
Not sure why people think Bosh is still a top tier player. He's average at best and not worth $20M a year.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jun 24, 2014 6:34pm
Giving up on him already huh lolHighRoller74;1629527 wrote:Kings-Pistons talking deal.
Josh Smith, for some scrubs.
Lovejoy1984
Posts: 5,277
Jun 24, 2014 6:36pm
As they should.robj55;1629529 wrote:Giving up on him already huh lol
He was a terrible signing, by a terrible GM lol.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jun 24, 2014 6:51pm
Didn't Dumars build the Billups led Pistons that won a title? Or was that before him?HighRoller74;1629531 wrote:As they should.
He was a terrible signing, by a terrible GM lol.
Lovejoy1984
Posts: 5,277
Jun 24, 2014 6:57pm
He did, but it's a consensus that he lucked into that.robj55;1629533 wrote:Didn't Dumars build the Billups led Pistons that won a title? Or was that before him?
Look at some of his moves, since he built that team, starting with Darko.
Just terrible.
Darko
Trading for Iverson
Trading for Brandon Jennings
Signing Josh Smith, Ben Gordon, Charlie V.
Drafting Austin Daye
Traded Aaron Afflalo for Vernon Macklin.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jun 24, 2014 7:02pm
Darko was supposedly the next big thing out of Europe at the time, can't really fault him that he didn't pan out. I actually liked Austin Daye at Gonzaga but yeah the rest of those moves are awful.HighRoller74;1629537 wrote:He did, but it's a consensus that he lucked into that.
Look at some of his moves, since he built that team, starting with Darko.
Just terrible.
Darko
Trading for Iverson
Trading for Brandon Jennings
Signing Josh Smith, Ben Gordon, Charlie V.
Drafting Austin Daye
Traded Aaron Afflalo for Vernon Macklin.
Lovejoy1984
Posts: 5,277
Jun 24, 2014 7:04pm
Then who do you fault when a player busts?robj55;1629538 wrote:Darko was supposedly the next big thing out of Europe at the time, can't really fault him that he didn't pan out. I actually liked Austin Daye at Gonzaga but yeah the rest of those moves are awful.
Pick6
Posts: 14,946
Jun 24, 2014 7:08pm
Bosh blows, Wade blows. Thank god sleeper knows.
robj55
Posts: 9,511
Jun 24, 2014 7:17pm
Wade is coming off his most efficient year ever and actually played pretty damn well up until the finals. He just fell apart.Pick6;1629540 wrote:Bosh blows, Wade blows. Thank god sleeper knows.
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friendfromlowry
Posts: 6,239
Jun 24, 2014 7:57pm
This may have been an efficient season for him but he also only played 54 games which makes your last (bolded) point all the more concerning. Luckily for them, the east is down (which you'll probably deny anyways) and they were able to get away with it.robj55;1629544 wrote:Wade is coming off his most efficient year ever and actually played pretty damn well up until the finals. He just fell apart.