I think Manziel is overrated as well. Kevin Sumlin QB's put up huge numbers because of the system they are in.

I can see Baylor and Stanford jumping OSU in final BCS standings if they both win out. The lovefest Stanford is going to get in the polls the next week or two will be rdiculous.

Well its because the SEC east is terrible. Mizzou was actually pretty good their last couple years in the Big 12, you act as if they were a bottom feeder. They also won 2 sec games last year so its not like they are now dominating the entire conference. A&M has Manziel, once he enters the draft they will be a below average.

Y'all crazy. Manziel is legit.

Those QBs sleeper mentioned do not compare.


Also, I highly doubt Stanford jumps OSU. Utah.

Utah has wins over BYU and Stanford. They will likely go 6-6, possibly 7-5. That's not a great win, but it's certainly not a BAD loss. They are pretty comparable to Iowa or Penn State.

Automatik;1532010 wrote:Y'all crazy. Manziel is legit.

Those QBs sleeper mentioned do not compare.


Also, I highly doubt Stanford jumps OSU. Utah.

Keenum is starting in the NFL.

I think Manziel is solid, but his stats are mainly due to the offense that Sumlin runs. He wouldn't look like God in most other offenses. Case Keenum looked like God under Sumlin. I mean shit, he went from 2500 yards passing before Sumlin, to immediately 5,000 yards after Sumlin arrived.

Rotinaj;1532009 wrote:Well its because the SEC east is terrible. Mizzou was actually pretty good their last couple years in the Big 12, you act as if they were a bottom feeder. They also won 2 sec games last year so its not like they are now dominating the entire conference. A&M has Manziel, once he enters the draft they will be a below average.

The SEC East is terrible every year but somehow they still end up pre-season ranked with 2-3 teams(SC, Georgia, Florida). Really the only team that actually used to be any good out of those 3 is Florida and they have blown dick ever since Urban went to greener pastures. SC, garbage, they have 1 player worth a damn and he doesn't even play because he's thinking about his NFL paycheck. Georgia has never been good, never will be good, and is the most overrated team year in year out other than Virginia Tech(still do not understand how VT is ever ranked, they are junk).

As far as Mizzou, they were a slightly above average at best B12 team that's never won anything. They shouldn't have one fucking win in the SEC especially given how much better the SEC is(at least that's what ESPN and SEC fans tell us). A&M will still dominate once Manziel leaves BECAUSE OF THE SYSTEM, not because of a QB who's a total jackass.

Did Case Keenum put those numbers up against teams like Alabama?

Rotinaj;1532025 wrote:Did Case Keenum put those numbers up against teams like Alabama?

No, but he did put it up against teams that are now RUNNING TRAIN on teams like Alabama. LOL

sleeper;1532028 wrote:No, but he did put it up against teams that are now RUNNING TRAIN on teams like Alabama. LOL

WTF are you talking about?

Not sure why the compeition matters. He had C-USA talent playing C-USA teams at Houston.

Now he has SEC talent playing SEC teams.

Now you guys are just being ignorant. System has nothing to do with it. If you watch the games, Manziel makes a ton of plays on his own. He is a hell of a College Quarterback. Do I think he will be good in the pros? No. I think the same thing of Braxton Miller. He is a really good College QB.

I wonder if Case Keenum has these kind of system stats

• FBS Freshman record: rushing yards by a quarterback, season (1,410)
• FBS Freshman record: total offense, season (5,116)10th
• Most Single Season Total Offensive yards in NCAA FBS history.
• Most games with 300+ passing yards and 100+ rushing yards, career (4)FBS record:
• First Freshman (and 5th player ever) in FBS history with 3,000 passing yards and 1,000 rushing yards, season
• FBS record: Rushing yards by a Quarterback in a Bowl Game (229 yards)
• Only the 4th player to have 20 Passing TD's & 20 Rushing TD's, season
• Eclipsed the 7,000-yard barrier in total offense in his 19th career game, which is the fastest in NCAA FBS history by a four-year player.
• Second Freshman in FBS history to rush for 1,000 yards and pass for 2,000 yards
• First Freshman to win the Heisman Trophy
• First Freshman to win the Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award
• First Freshman to win the Manning Award

He is more than just a "System QB." I will let you in on something, it is ok to be an Ohio State fan and think other players are good. It will not harm the program in anyway or make you any less of a fan.

Rotinaj;1532033 wrote:WTF are you talking about?

I'm just recalling all these SEC fans talking about how great SEC defenses were and now all of a sudden a couple of former mediocre B12 teams come in and start running train against SEC defenses and now all we hear about is these great SEC offenses. The SEC is overrated man; time and time again they are OVERRATED. Now please tell me how Bama(I mean the SEC) is so good because they(Bama/SEC) wins National titles. Please explain how Bama winning the National title makes Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Tenn, etc. world beaters.

pmoney25;1532043 wrote:Now you guys are just being ignorant. System has nothing to do with it. If you watch the games, Manziel makes a ton of plays on his own. He is a hell of a College Quarterback. Do I think he will be good in the pros? No. I think the same thing of Braxton Miller. He is a really good College QB.

I wonder if Case Keenum has these kind of system stats

• FBS Freshman record: rushing yards by a quarterback, season (1,410)
• FBS Freshman record: total offense, season (5,116)10th
• Most Single Season Total Offensive yards in NCAA FBS history.
• Most games with 300+ passing yards and 100+ rushing yards, career (4)FBS record:
• First Freshman (and 5th player ever) in FBS history with 3,000 passing yards and 1,000 rushing yards, season
• FBS record: Rushing yards by a Quarterback in a Bowl Game (229 yards)
• Only the 4th player to have 20 Passing TD's & 20 Rushing TD's, season
• Eclipsed the 7,000-yard barrier in total offense in his 19th career game, which is the fastest in NCAA FBS history by a four-year player.
• Second Freshman in FBS history to rush for 1,000 yards and pass for 2,000 yards
• First Freshman to win the Heisman Trophy
• First Freshman to win the Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award
• First Freshman to win the Manning Award

He is more than just a "System QB." I will let you in on something, it is ok to be an Ohio State fan and think other players are good. It will not harm the program in anyway or make you any less of a fan.

If Case Keenum had the luxury of playing against SEC defenses, his stats would have been similar to these.

Case Keenum getting 1000+ on the ground. LOL

sleeper;1532044 wrote:I'm just recalling all these SEC fans talking about how great SEC defenses were and now all of a sudden a couple of former mediocre B12 teams come in and start running train against SEC defenses and now all we hear about is these great SEC offenses. The SEC is overrated man; time and time again they are OVERRATED. Now please tell me how Bama(I mean the SEC) is so good because they(Bama/SEC) wins National titles. Please explain how Bama winning the National title makes Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Tenn, etc. world beaters.

Dude, I'm a fan of the worst SEC team (currently) and top 3 worst (historically). Other than lining each school's pockets with money, SEC schools winning a title does nothing for UK (or the other schools, hell, it probably hurts them in-terms of recruiting). Still, they have had 5 schools win 8 of the 14 national titles and every school except the bottom feeders have played in a BCS game.

I'll be the first to admit that the SEC won't keep this up either. I definitely don't like the directions that Florida and Georgia are going in (both have coaching problems). Spurrier and Saban may not be around much longer either. The conference is going to be in-flux and it's going to happen rather soon. There will be some current national powers that will need to make the right coaching moves or risk falling off significantly.

Georgia (when do they fire Richt?)
Alabama (how long does Saban last?)
Florida (what to do with Muschamp?)
South Carolina (when does Spurrier retire?)

Unless A&M, Auburn, Tennessee or someone else takes that next step and fills in for where those 4 programs have been, the conference is going to falter a bit.

I think it's pretty clear that Miss State, Arkansas, Ole Miss and Missouri "are what they are" at this point.

The only real consistent school that I can see hanging around where they have the last 5-10 years for the distant future is LSU.

Automatik;1532010 wrote:Y'all crazy. Manziel is legit.

Those QBs sleeper mentioned do not compare.


Also, I highly doubt Stanford jumps OSU. Utah.

The problem with pointing out Utah is that the polls have already factored in the Utah loss, and the are STILL number 5. Add in a win over Oregon and ND, and I see no reason they shouldn't jump.

pmoney25;1532043 wrote:Now you guys are just being ignorant. System has nothing to do with it. If you watch the games, Manziel makes a ton of plays on his own. He is a hell of a College Quarterback. Do I think he will be good in the pros? No. I think the same thing of Braxton Miller. He is a really good College QB.

I wonder if Case Keenum has these kind of system stats

• FBS Freshman record: rushing yards by a quarterback, season (1,410)
• FBS Freshman record: total offense, season (5,116)10th
• Most Single Season Total Offensive yards in NCAA FBS history.
• Most games with 300+ passing yards and 100+ rushing yards, career (4)FBS record:
• First Freshman (and 5th player ever) in FBS history with 3,000 passing yards and 1,000 rushing yards, season
• FBS record: Rushing yards by a Quarterback in a Bowl Game (229 yards)
• Only the 4th player to have 20 Passing TD's & 20 Rushing TD's, season
• Eclipsed the 7,000-yard barrier in total offense in his 19th career game, which is the fastest in NCAA FBS history by a four-year player.
• Second Freshman in FBS history to rush for 1,000 yards and pass for 2,000 yards
• First Freshman to win the Heisman Trophy
• First Freshman to win the Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award
• First Freshman to win the Manning Award

He is more than just a "System QB." I will let you in on something, it is ok to be an Ohio State fan and think other players are good. It will not harm the program in anyway or make you any less of a fan.

System has a lot to do with his passing numbers. Case Keenum wasn't the athlete that Manziel is, so they never ran him. Sumlin has basically taken his air raid offense and added a running game to it with Manziel.

Stanford has a loss, and OSU doesn't. Period.

Azubuike24;1532052 wrote:Dude, I'm a fan of the worst SEC team (currently) and top 3 worst (historically). Other than lining each school's pockets with money, SEC schools winning a title does nothing for UK (or the other schools, hell, it probably hurts them in-terms of recruiting). Still, they have had 5 schools win 8 of the 14 national titles and every school except the bottom feeders have played in a BCS game.

I'll be the first to admit that the SEC won't keep this up either. I definitely don't like the directions that Florida and Georgia are going in (both have coaching problems). Spurrier and Saban may not be around much longer either. The conference is going to be in-flux and it's going to happen rather soon. There will be some current national powers that will need to make the right coaching moves or risk falling off significantly.

Georgia (when do they fire Richt?)
Alabama (how long does Saban last?)
Florida (what to do with Muschamp?)
South Carolina (when does Spurrier retire?)

Unless A&M, Auburn, Tennessee or someone else takes that next step and fills in for where those 4 programs have been, the conference is going to falter a bit.

I think it's pretty clear that Miss State, Arkansas, Ole Miss and Missouri "are what they are" at this point.

The only real consistent school that I can see hanging around where they have the last 5-10 years for the distant future is LSU.

Sumlin is rumored to be the top target at USC. So A&M "picking it up" may be a stretch. The success of Sumlin seems to be outside the norm for A&M coaches

vball10set;1532060 wrote:Stanford has a loss, and OSU doesn't. Period.

Which shouldn't be the only factor.

I agree, and I also find it very unlikely that any of those schools "pick it up" given where they are currently at. The only one I can see is Tennessee, who DOES have the capability of being a lot better than they currently are and have been. Auburn is always solid, but NEVER have been consistently elite for more than a few years at a time.

That's why the league will fall unless those schools make a home run hire and don't miss a beat. The odds of that is very unlikely.

Over the next 5 years, I predict the Pac 12 is going to overtake the SEC as the dominant league. It's already starting this year.

pmoney25;1532043 wrote:Now you guys are just being ignorant. System has nothing to do with it. If you watch the games, Manziel makes a ton of plays on his own. He is a hell of a College Quarterback. Do I think he will be good in the pros? No. I think the same thing of Braxton Miller. He is a really good College QB.

I wonder if Case Keenum has these kind of system stats

• FBS Freshman record: rushing yards by a quarterback, season (1,410)
• FBS Freshman record: total offense, season (5,116)10th
• Most Single Season Total Offensive yards in NCAA FBS history.
• Most games with 300+ passing yards and 100+ rushing yards, career (4)FBS record:
• First Freshman (and 5th player ever) in FBS history with 3,000 passing yards and 1,000 rushing yards, season
• FBS record: Rushing yards by a Quarterback in a Bowl Game (229 yards)
• Only the 4th player to have 20 Passing TD's & 20 Rushing TD's, season
• Eclipsed the 7,000-yard barrier in total offense in his 19th career game, which is the fastest in NCAA FBS history by a four-year player.
• Second Freshman in FBS history to rush for 1,000 yards and pass for 2,000 yards
• First Freshman to win the Heisman Trophy
• First Freshman to win the Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award
• First Freshman to win the Manning Award

He is more than just a "System QB." I will let you in on something, it is ok to be an Ohio State fan and think other players are good. It will not harm the program in anyway or make you any less of a fan.

Keenum is the NCAA's all-time leader in total passing yards, touchdowns, and completions.

WebFire;1532054 wrote:The problem with pointing out Utah is that the polls have already factored in the Utah loss, and the are STILL number 5. Add in a win over Oregon and ND, and I see no reason they shouldn't jump.

Yes, and the only reason Baylor wasn't ahead of Stanford was because the have yet to play an opponent ranked at either the time of the game or afterwords so people were suspect over how they do against someone with similar athletes. They ended up beating Oklahoma rather easily (first quarter and most of 2nd was ugly), but with that criticism out of the way they will now jump Stanford.

Fly4Fun;1532080 wrote:Yes, and the only reason Baylor wasn't ahead of Stanford was because the have yet to play an opponent ranked at either the time of the game or afterwords so people were suspect over how they do against someone with similar athletes. They ended up beating Oklahoma rather easily (first quarter and most of 2nd was ugly), but with that criticism out of the way they will now jump Stanford.

But Stanford beat a higher ranked opponent the same night. So those cancel out.