isadore;1232561 wrote:of course they got advantage from it. for over a decade they hid the child rapes. the revelations would have caused a loss of recruits and a loss of revenue.

Agreed.

There was definite competitive advantage as compared to the state the program would have been in should they have fully disclosed it.

Con_Alma;1232566 wrote:Agreed.

There was definite competitive advantage as compared to the state the program would have been in should they have fully disclosed it.

In what state would the program have been? Had Tim Curley and Gary Schultz just gone one step further and notified the police of Sandusky, the matter would have purely been a criminal one. Sandusky was not an employee on the football staff in 2001. The only connection he had to the football team was that he had an office with a telephone. The NCAA would have had no reason to punish Penn State.

In fact, while it would certainly have been an embarrasing pulbic relations fiasco for the school, Paterno and the rest of the administration would ultimately have been hailed as heroes for turning in one of their own and bringing a child abuser to justice. That's why I just don't get why this was supposedly all covered up. It's ridiculous to think that covering it up would in the end make the situation better. These guys and the university itself had far more to lose than to gain.

reclegend22;1232663 wrote:In what state would the program have been?....

The state would have been less than the one they were in. The level or degree is not the defining point as much as the fact that it would not have been as favorable of a culture and situation had the public knew.....which is one reason why people didn't share the information. They didn't want people outside of the situation to know.

Con_Alma;1232667 wrote:The state would have been less than the one they were in. The level or degree is not the defining point as much as the fact that it would not have been as favorable of a culture and situation had the public knew.....which is one reason why people didn't share the information. They didn't want people outside of the situation to know.

I agree with that. But there is no way the NCAA would have had any right to punish Penn State for something that one man, who wasn't even officially affiliated with the football program by that point, did. Which is why I can't fathom why a cover-up would even have been on the table.

It would have been unfortunate for Penn State that they were still connected to Sandusky (i.e. his emeritus status) in 2001, but because they would have been the ones that turned him in and stopped a monster's reign of terror, eventually it all would have blown over and Penn State would have resumed business as usual.

reclegend22;1232679 wrote:I agree with that. But there is no way the NCAA would have had any right to punish Penn State for something that one man, who wasn't even officially affiliated with the football program by that point, did. Which is why I can't fathom why a cover-up would even have been on the table.

....

They absolutely have the right to punish the program for past actions the program enacted.

Con_Alma;1232684 wrote:They absolutely have the right to punish the program for past actions the program enacted.

What actions did Penn State enact prior to 2001? Sandusky's emeritus status? That had nothing to do with the football program. That was granted by the university president or BOT.

Besides, even in light of the '98 investigation into Sandusky, Penn State still didn't do anything wrong by granting Sandusky emeritus status and use of university facilities as, remember, Sandusky was cleared of any guilt by state police and child protective services.

Maybe I'm not understanding where you're coming from..

reclegend22;1232702 wrote:What actions did Penn State enact prior to 2001? Sandusky's emeritus status?....

The football program permitted the activates to take place on/in their facilities. Knowingly doing so give the NCAA the right to enforce the NCAA expectations of morality and conduct.

Con_Alma;1232706 wrote:The football program permitted the activates to take place on/in their facilities. Knowingly doing so give the NCAA the right to enforce the NCAA expectations of morality and conduct.

Perhaps that's how it would have played out, but I'd like to think not. In 2001, the situation would have been more about a solitary man abusing his emeritus status than a scandal involving the football program. I think that if Penn State would have alerted the police, Sandusky would have been arrested, investigated and the rest would have been dealt with in a court of law without any punishments levied on the football program. The athletic department would have done the right thing by reporting the incident to police and getting Sandusky off the streets.

But, as we've seen, the NCAA does what the fuck it wants. So who knows what would have occurred.

reclegend22;1232738 wrote:Perhaps that's how it would have played out, but I'd like to think not. In 2001, the situation would have been more about a solitary man abusing his emeritus status than a scandal involving the football program. I think that if Penn State would have alerted the police, Sandusky would have been arrested, investigated and the rest would have been dealt with in a court of law without any punishments levied on the football program. The athletic department would have done the right thing by reporting the incident to police and getting Sandusky off the streets.

But, as we've seen, the NCAA does what the **** it wants. So who knows what would have occurred.

You have a lot of "ifs" in there.

Penn State knew it happened and didn't do everything they could have to make it know that heinous acts had occurred to minors. That's immoral and the NCAA shouldn't tolerate it ....ever.

LOL rec just doesn't get it.

Usually the NCAA punishes violators because they committed infractions which are deemed to gain a competitive advantage. I don't see how PSU gained any kind of advantage with this sordid mess. Don't get me wrong, I hope Sandusky gets what's coming to him when he meets up with the cons who don't appreciate child molestors in prison, but I really think the NCAA went way beyond their mission statement with this one. They may have opened Pandora's Box for future criminal action offenses.

DeyDurkie5;1232757 wrote:LOL rec just doesn't get it.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/details-of-paterno-familys-internal-report,28851/

Despite more than 400 interviews, the Freeh group never spoke with that one drunk guy in the Penn State sweatshirt at the end of the bar screaming at SportsCenter

stlouiedipalma;1232812 wrote:Usually the NCAA punishes violators because they committed infractions which are deemed to gain a competitive advantage. I don't see how PSU gained any kind of advantage with this sordid mess. Don't get me wrong, I hope Sandusky gets what's coming to him when he meets up with the cons who don't appreciate child molestors in prison, but I really think the NCAA went way beyond their mission statement with this one. They may have opened Pandora's Box for future criminal action offenses.

I think we've been over this a time or two.

Penn state used its "clean, success with honor" recruiting pitch this whole time. Sent out a letter after osu was punished for tattoos, telling recruits again how clean it was.

This is part of gaining a competitive advantage because they used it in recruiting. All while knowing what was going on behind closed doors.

Midstate01;1232825 wrote:Penn state used its "clean, success with honor" recruiting pitch this whole time. Sent out a letter after osu was punished for tattoos, telling recruits again how clean it was.

This is part of gaining a competitive advantage because they used it in recruiting. All while knowing what was going on behind closed doors.

Forgot about this--karma's a bitch, ain't it?

As a FORMER Penn State fan, I think the punishment is fair. This is worse than the death penalty and it should be. Jo Pa and the administrators allowed a child rapist to use the university as his play ground. If this was some professor who was raping children and a dean covered it up, then it would not be fair but we all know now that the head football coach knew of the situation and suggested to the powers that be that the police should not be involved. F--- that. PSU deserves and earned their punishment.

<p>
I&#39;ll start by saying the NCAA&#39;s ruling was fair.</p>
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&nbsp;</p>
<p>
As someone who lived for over 10 years in State College, what concerns is the impact on the State College community. The economic ramifications of this over the next few years will be tremendous. PSU clothing sales, the local restauarnts, etc. will take a severe beating over the actions (or more accurately inactions) of a handful of PSU administrators and a football head coach who possessed an obscene amount of power that eventually festered into a massive, ugly boil.</p>
<p>
&nbsp;</p>
<p>
It&#39;s trully a shame and not fair to those whose livelihoods depend upon Penn State athletics.</p>

I'll start by saying the NCAA's ruling was fair.


As someone who lived for over 10 years in State College, what concerns is the impact on the State College community. The economic ramifications of this over the next few years will be tremendous. PSU clothing sales, the local restauarnts, etc. will take a severe beating over the actions (or more accurately inactions) of a handful of PSU administrators and a football head coach who possessed an obscene amount of power that eventually festered into a massive, ugly boil.


It's trully a shame and not fair to those whose livelihoods depend upon Penn State athletics.

I remember PSU had a law passed by the Pennsylvania Legislature regarding open access to public records for the school. I'm curious, if they covered this up, what else might they have brushed under the rug?

PSU loses major sponsor State Farm:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/penn-state-sanctions-echo-community-072933586--ncaaf.html

believer;1232933 wrote:I'll start by saying the NCAA's ruling was fair.


As someone who lived for over 10 years in State College, what concerns is the impact on the State College community. The economic ramifications of this over the next few years will be tremendous. PSU clothing sales, the local restauarnts, etc. will take a severe beating over the actions (or more accurately inactions) of a handful of PSU administrators and a football head coach who possessed an obscene amount of power that eventually festered into a massive, ugly boil.


It's trully a shame and not fair to those whose livelihoods depend upon Penn State athletics.

Your first and last statements are contradictory.....but your last statement is correct.The NCAA went way overboard in punishments, targeting the innocent as well as those responsible.

This is the mission statement of the NCAA:
"Our purpose is to govern competition in a fair, safe, equitable and sportsmanlike manner, and to integrate intercollegiate athletics into higher education so that the educational experience of the student-athlete is paramount."

There is nothing in this that suggests it is the prosecutor, judge and jury in cases of criminal misconduct....but if there is evidence of this it certainly has the right to remove/punish/ those INDIVIDUALS responsible as a requisite of membership. I don't know where it gets the authority to levy $60 million fines without due process.

To be frank, I don't think the NCAA has been true to its' "mission" for a long time.

I can see your point of the ncaa maybe over stepping their bounds, but if Penn St does nothing but cover it up who else could have stepped in and passed out a punishment? This is a punishable offense to the athletic department, this man used their facilities to perpetrate this heinous offense, he used his influence as a member of the football team. Those higher ups in the department and university tried to COVER it up! Something had to be done, shame on Penn St for not cleaning their own house, dont blame the ncaa for punishing a program, athletic department and institution for NOT taking care of it!

who else could have stepped in and passed out a punishment?

That's not their purpose.

The NCAA has a specific morality clause for it's coaches. They are penalizing Penn State for not following such rules. That's not over-stepping your bounds.