if the penalties are so horrible psu could quit the ncaa. it is a voluntary organization. they could quit the ncaa. or take their richly justified penalties.

...of course, and kill all athletics at the school. Or well...gosh a riddies...they could just play intramurals among themselves. The NCAA has a virtual monopoly on big time college athletics, and has usurped enough power the past 20-30 years so as to make their mission statement worthless.

reclegend22;1233445 wrote:I will go ahead and choose to put more faith in what an esteemed family therapist, once greatly respected university president and victim of childhood sexual abuse has to say on this sensitive matter than a random dude named "isadore" on the information superhighway. Thanks for your input, though.

gosh you put your faith in a co-conspirator who covered up the actions of a serial child rapist for over a decade. wow.

Heretic;1233552 wrote:This Graham Spanier?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--graham-spanier-penn-state-freeh-report-joe-paterno-curtis-enis-jeff-nalley.html#more-id



Great character witness, him.

Yeah, because copying and pasting more material directly lifted from the Freeh Report, the very report that Graham Spanier is claiming to be ripe with baseless assumptions and inaccurate reporting, really proves that Spanier is lying.

The bottom line: Neither you nor I know the real truth at this point.

HitsRus;1233608 wrote:...of course, and kill all athletics at the school. Or well...gosh a riddies...they could just play intramurals among themselves. The NCAA has a virtual monopoly on big time college athletics, and has usurped enough power the past 20-30 years so as to make their mission statement worthless.

I doubt if any institution has caused more embarrassment to the NCAA than PSU and its football program. No other institution and program has allowed, its administrators and coaches covered up such reprehensible acts. If they were expelled from the ncaa, it would not be overkill by a long shot. gosh maybe the naia would lower its standards and accept them.

reclegend22;1233480 wrote:I'm not all that concerned with the NCAA's ruling. I think they rushed too quickly to make their ruling, but, as has been pointed out, the NCAA can do whatever it wants to do.

My argument is simply that in the real world, which is what actually matters, the jury is still out on whether or not Paterno and Spanier were knowing partipants in a grand plan to mask child sexual abuse.

umm, in the real world if someone comes to me saying that they saw a kid and a grown man in the shower and heard "rythmic slapping sounds" I am picking up the phone and the police are being called. He never followed through, even though he knew what Ginger told him. What else can you call it besides covering it up? Forgetting to follow-up?

Regardless of whether there was a "grand plan", we know that people, Paterno included, knew that Sandusky was molesting children and that they woke up every day for years and made the decision not to make a simple phone call that would have put a stop to it. Hopefully, there is a hell so that these people can burn in it.

Graham Spanier is a pervert who is trying to paint himself as a victim.

http://www.salvomag.com/new/articles/salvo20/kinseys-love-affair-with-pedophilia.php

More recently, Spanier approved the choice of Pat Califia, a transgendered advocate of sadomasochism and pedophilia, as the keynote speaker for a women's health conference held at Penn State in 2002. The previous year, the group Womyn's Concerns hosted a "Sex Faire" on campus, featuring such activities as "orgasm bingo" and "the tent of consent." Asked if the fair was morally wrong, Spanier was quoted as saying, "It depends on what your definition of immoral is."[SUP]6[/SUP] So while news of the Sandusky affair is shocking, it should come as no surprise.

I doubt if any institution has caused more embarrassment to the NCAA than PSU and its football program

The NCAA is embarrassed? Oh, yeah...people the world over are talking about how the NCAA let this happen.

I'll tell you who is embarrassed...the good and well meaning people who strive hard to make PSU a great institution.....and there are many, many of them who are totally abhorred by what a few people did. These people are innocent of the shame that is being heaped on the institution by idiots who paint with a broad brush and don't seem to care if those not responsible are punished along with the guilty. As for punishment for the crime...the University is liable for the actions of its employees, and hence is fair game for civil suits. Individuals responsible are subject to the same, and subject to possible criminal charges.

What isn't necessary, is the NCAA going thermonuclear. The NCAA shouldn't be able to arbitrarily fine anyone $60 million...not for anything, and it should concern itself with ensuring fair amateur competition on the field and being an advocate for student athletes.

If the NCAA is embarrassed, it should be because it has gotten away from that. In its power/money grab, it allows and sanctions it's member institutions to exploit student athletes... to make tons of money for their schools, their coaches, broadcast media etc.....everybody gets their cut except the athlete. And if the athlete should so much as get a dime of 'improper' benefit, they are hit with arbitrary penalties and suspensions.

HitsRus;1233951 wrote:The NCAA is embarrassed? Oh, yeah...people the world over are talking about how the NCAA let this happen.

I'll tell you who is embarrassed...the good and well meaning people who strive hard to make PSU a great institution.....and there are many, many of them who are totally abhorred by what a few people did. These people are innocent of the shame that is being heaped on the institution by idiots who paint with a broad brush and don't seem to care if those not responsible are punished along with the guilty. As for punishment for the crime...the University is liable for the actions of its employees, and hence is fair game for civil suits. Individuals responsible are subject to the same, and subject to possible criminal charges.

What isn't necessary, is the NCAA going thermonuclear. The NCAA shouldn't be able to arbitrarily fine anyone $60 million...not for anything, and it should concern itself with ensuring fair amateur competition on the field and being an advocate for student athletes.

If the NCAA is embarrassed, it should be because it has gotten away from that. In its power/money grab, it allows and sanctions it's member institutions to exploit student athletes... to make tons of money for their schools, their coaches, broadcast media etc.....everybody gets their cut except the athlete. And if the athlete should so much as get a dime of 'improper' benefit, they are hit with arbitrary penalties and suspensions.

A conspiracy by the leaders of the University to allows a serial child rapist. Gosh and these people were part of the NCAA, that is embarrassing to the association. The President of the University, the Vice President of the University, the Athletic Director of the University and the legend conspired to allow their buddy to continue to rape young boys for over a decade. And why do they begin this horrendous atrocity to protect the football program and the legend. And to enrich the football program and the university gosh that giant hypocrisy of selling them winning without cheating and the legend’s total victories. while concealing the a continuing crime spree. It allowed the program to get recruits and revenue, and the university hundreds of millions in donations. NCAA should be embarrassed to associate with such scumbags.
Again this was just not some guys at the university. Its not am assistant professor in the sociology depart and TA in the English department. This is the very top of the university running a cover up to protect the legend and the football program
And the ncaa acted with restraint based on the extensive investigation of mr. Freeh and associates.

HitsRus;1233951 wrote: I'll tell you who is embarrassed...the good and well meaning people who strive hard to make PSU a great institution.....and there are many, many of them who are totally abhorred by what a few people did. These people are innocent of the shame that is being heaped on the institution by idiots who paint with a broad brush and don't seem to care if those not responsible are punished along with the guilty. As for punishment for the crime...the University is liable for the actions of its employees, and hence is fair game for civil suits. Individuals responsible are subject to the same, and subject to possible criminal charges.

If we only punished based on no innocent people being affected, then no one would ever be punished. OSU shouldn't have been punished for the tattoo scandal. That was only a few people too. But now an entire team and coaching staff who were innocent of any rule breaking, must now suffer the consequences.

Is that what you are saying?

Wow. PSU was close to a 4 year death penalty.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8199905/penn-state-nittany-lions-rodney-erickson-said-school-faced-4-year-death-penalty

If we only punished based on no innocent people being affected, then no one would ever be punished.

I think that the innocent don't need to be punished. I think PSU as an institution can and will be punished sufficiently by civil suits and it's liability thereof. I think the NCAA could have limited it's sanctions to those coaches who knew or who acted improperly/immorally. I think that the NCAA rightfully could/should dmeand demand that PSU clean house, and that a 1 year suspension of the program to carry that out would have been more than enough. I think penalties to the PSU football community levied are excessive, especially that 'innocents' are left to bear an outrageous burden ...an ARBITRARY $60 million fine/ multi year, multi dimensional penalties. The NCAA should confine itself to being an advocate for student athletes and ensuring fair competition on the playing field.

People on here are hung up on "someone needs to punish somebody"...I can understand the outrage, but I am not willing to grant the NCAA those broad, unchecked powers.

HitsRus;1234189 wrote:I think that the innocent don't need to be punished. I think PSU as an institution can and will be punished sufficiently by civil suits and it's liability thereof. I think the NCAA could have limited it's sanctions to those coaches who knew or who acted improperly/immorally. I think that the NCAA rightfully could/should dmeand demand that PSU clean house, and that a 1 year suspension of the program to carry that out would have been more than enough. I think penalties to the PSU football community levied are excessive, especially that 'innocents' are left to bear an outrageous burden ...an ARBITRARY $60 million fine/ multi year, multi dimensional penalties. The NCAA should confine itself to being an advocate for student athletes and ensuring fair competition on the playing field.

People on here are hung up on "someone needs to punish somebody"...I can understand the outrage, but I am not willing to grant the NCAA those broad, unchecked powers.

Suspending the entire program for 1 year wouldn't have affected innocent people?

HitsRus;1234189 wrote:I think that the innocent don't need to be punished. I think PSU as an institution can and will be punished sufficiently by civil suits and it's liability thereof. I think the NCAA could have limited it's sanctions to those coaches who knew or who acted improperly/immorally. I think that the NCAA rightfully could/should dmeand demand that PSU clean house, and that a 1 year suspension of the program to carry that out would have been more than enough. I think penalties to the PSU football community levied are excessive, especially that 'innocents' are left to bear an outrageous burden ...an ARBITRARY $60 million fine/ multi year, multi dimensional penalties. The NCAA should confine itself to being an advocate for student athletes and ensuring fair competition on the playing field.

People on here are hung up on "someone needs to punish somebody"...I can understand the outrage, but I am not willing to grant the NCAA those broad, unchecked powers.

The $60 Million number wasn't arbitrary. It is the average earnings of the football team

Suspending the entire program for 1 year wouldn't have affected innocent people?

I would think that the fewer the better, no?

At least it is more justifiable than 4 years and $60 million.

The $60 Million number wasn't arbitrary. It is the average earnings of the football team

So they arbitrarily decided that it should the "earnings of the football team"...is that before or after they destroyed it?

HitsRus;1234220 wrote:...


So they arbitrarily decided that it should the "earnings of the football team"...is that before or after they destroyed it?

Probably at the same time. If the program is "destroyed" it is the leaders of the program that did so.

reclegend22;1233425 wrote:Graham Spanier, a family sociologist and therapist who has openly admitted that he was affected by sexual abuse as a child, says that the Freeh Report is "egregious in its incomplete and inaccruate reporting." The former Penn State president went on to add that the entire document is "full of factual errors and jumpts to conclusions that are untrue and unwarranted."

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/ex-penn-state-president-graham-spanier-says-abused-211442341--ncaaf.html

As I've said before, the Freeh Report is not the final chapter in this saga. It is drenched with far too much speculation based on inconclusive and ambiguous pieces of evidence and is in no way an accurate account of the events that actually transpired over 10 years ago.

Spanier was never sexually abused as a child. Please quit saying that he was. If it were the case, maybe the flaming **** would have ratted Joe out for the slimeball that he was.

Hits, maytbe the NCAA overstepped their legal bounds. But maybe, just maybe the God complexes of the football heirarchies will learn to understand that therer will finally be consequences for actions. Somebody posted up above a really good point. Maybe Penn State gained an unfair "competitive edge" by not whistle blowing Sanduski. I believe that if the right thing had been done in 98, Penn State would have suffered for only a year ot two. But they would have suffered.

You and I have shared the wrath of coverups of our Catholic Church. Joe was Catholic as well, and given his Catholicism, he more than most should have understood how dispicable covering up such a crime was. He ignored, and didn't care.

He ignored, and didn't care.

The unfortunate part of this is that we are all left to speculate as Paterno is not here to give his account...which would have been the most direct testimony relevant.
I don't know if he didn't care. In fact I doubt that is the case. I think it might have started with one bad decision not to report/confront the problem...and snowballed into what it became.

But maybe, just maybe the God complexes of the football heirarchies will learn to understand that therer will finally be consequences for actions. Somebody posted up above a really good point. Maybe Penn State gained an unfair "competitive edge" by not whistle blowing Sanduski

You see that is what I don't buy into...I think that is a thinly disguised vail to assume authority to punish. I think the people responsible need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Punishing Penn State beyond what it takes to trying to make things right and clean house doesn't really make those responsible for those action suffer any more consequences. It just makes the people cleaning the house suffer. Penn State will suffer civil suits as a consequence of the actions of some of their employees. The NCAA is just piling on.
I really have a problem with the power that we give this group, and we assume that it is a benign institution, when in fact, it has its own issues.

TedSheckler;1231641 wrote:Would $60M be enough if it were your kid?

I just hope PSU does not scrape up the money at the cost of other athletes or scholarship related students, like musicans or other artists, etc....

"Don't screw over more students for your stupidity."

^^ It was my understanding that they couldn't. It had to come from football w/o making cuts to other sports.

I can't wait for the day for Coach K to come out with a "i let children suck my cock" story and rec try and defend it.

I finally got to read the Sports Illustrated article "We Were Penn State". Great article...and if you read between the lines, you will see why the NCAA cannot be trusted.
Basically, you have the foxes(theuniversity presidents)....and the wolves( the media)...advising and influencing how the Sheperd (theNCAA) manages the herd of sheep.

HitsRus;1235112 wrote:I finally got to read the Sports Illustrated article "We Were Penn State". Great article...and if you read between the lines, you will see why the NCAA cannot be trusted.
Basically, you have the foxes(theuniversity presidents)....and the wolves( the media)...advising and influencing how the Sheperd (theNCAA) manages the herd of sheep.

foxes and wolves might be helpful in culling out a bunch of sheep fuckers (psu).

DeyDurkie5;1234899 wrote:I can't wait for the day for Coach K to come out with a "i let children suck my cock" story and rec try and defend it.

How many chromosomes do you have? If I had to ballpark it, I'd say more than 20.