Fab1b;1227287 wrote:I get that point but this isn't enron. Enron needed shut down, because someone commits a sexual criminal act at your company's facilities should your company be shut down because you didn't report that crime? No you should be fired, possibly arrested and the person who committed the action arrested.

I've thought alot about this, like when USC, OSU, Miami, etc....was in trouble, death penalty this, that, the other. I will admit in my biased fanhood I was screaming for it too until I really gave it some thought. Also watching the 30 for 30 on SMU really makes you think about the "death penalty" in college sports. Most people don't realize the effects the death penalty will have not only on the instituion, but the community, the city, the people, the conference, etc....the economic impact of that decision goes well beyond the football field!

I guess I'm not saying they should get the death penalty. But they should get some severe penalties. The NCAA should be involved because there was a cover up of a crime by athletic and school officials.

Bob Dole;1227025 wrote:You're entitled to an opinion, but that is a ridiculous statement.

Agreed. Id have zero sympathy for a university that continued to let this happen to me if I was in their shoes. They could all go straight to hell and I wouldnt feel one ounce of bad for them.

gyea36;1227114 wrote:It drives me nuts to hear from the media that Penn State gained no competitive advantage. Of course they did. They maintained their pristine image and were allowed to keep a coach that was good in a strategic sense on staff. Stability is very important in college football. The stability and image enabled recruiting and probably enabled millions of dollars through donations, sponsorship, and media contracts. They have to get hit hard.

excellent reason why they deserve the ax.

Fab1b;1227287 wrote:I get that point but this isn't enron. Enron needed shut down, because someone commits a sexual criminal act at your company's facilities should your company be shut down because you didn't report that crime? No you should be fired, possibly arrested and the person who committed the action arrested.

I've thought alot about this, like when USC, OSU, Miami, etc....was in trouble, death penalty this, that, the other. I will admit in my biased fanhood I was screaming for it too until I really gave it some thought. Also watching the 30 for 30 on SMU really makes you think about the "death penalty" in college sports. Most people don't realize the effects the death penalty will have not only on the instituion, but the community, the city, the people, the conference, etc....the economic impact of that decision goes well beyond the football field!

"a sexual criminal act." wow, decade and a half criminal conspiracy that allowed this predator to commit scores of sexual criminal acts. Enron shutdown cost 85,000 people their jobs. Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling stole money, this is so much worse and it was allowed to protect the football program.

The scandal at Enron also caused the company to go bankrupt that is very different situation and I am by no means comparing stealing money to sexual assault of children. PSU is not bankrupt (maybe will be after the civil suits are done) but they are not now!

reclegend22;1227267 wrote:The NCAA also shouldn't do anything at all based on a research paper. The Freeh Report, despite what the news media would have you believe, isn't the final say on this matter. For starters, the report doesn't include any interviews from anybody actually involved in the situation at all. Curley, Schultz and Spanier were not available for comment due to obvious legal restraints. Paterno also wasn't interviewed, nor was Mike McQueary, nor anybody of actual relevance. Out of the "millions" of documents that Freeh supposedly sifted through, the only pieces of information offering any real significance are a few ambiguous emails, that, while seemingly damning to Paterno, don't actually prove anything. Do not mistake "reasonable conclusions" for realities.

If the NCAA is going to make some sort of decision on this matter, it should wait until after the trials of Curley, Shultz and Spanier, or at least until these men are more thoroughly interviewed and can elaborate further on the context of the emails presented in the report.

gosh who is this incompetent klutz Louis Freeh, what do he know about investigating and making judgements on law and guilt. Oh gosh yes he is a lawyer, well jeez any clown can become a lawyer. oh and he was an FBI agent, and a US attorney, and oh Federal District Judge, wow and beside that he Director of the FBI. But gosh that hardly matches your ability to gather and analyze evidence.

Fab1b;1227316 wrote:The scandal at Enron also caused the company to go bankrupt that is very different situation and I am by no means comparing stealing money to sexual assault of children. PSU is not bankrupt (maybe will be after the civle suits are done) but they are not now!

gosh a ruddies one was a criminal conspiracy to loot a corporation and its stockholders. and the other a continuing conspiracy to protect a pedophile and a football program. The first cost people alot of money, the other destroyed the innocence of children, a large number we still do not know.

isadore;1227322 wrote:gosh a ruddies one was a criminal conspiracy to loot a corporation and its stockholders. and the other a continuing conspiracy to protect a pedophile and a football program. The first cost people alot of money, the other destroyed the innocence of children, a large number we still do not know.

I don't disagee with that, jesus. I think what happened at PSU is the worst but keep things in perspective! If you don't think $$$ has alot to do with what will happen to PSU you are on crack! The economic impact will keep the NCAA from leveling the most serious penalty IMO! I am just stating facts here. Yes those people at Enron got screwed just like those that dealt with Maddof but don't compare the two with PSU I'm sorry!

Fab1b;1227325 wrote:I don't disagee with that, jesus. I think what happened at PSU is the worst but keep things in perspective! If you don't think $$$ has alot to do with what will happen to PSU you are on crack! The economic impact will keep the NCAA from leveling the most serious penalty IMO! I am just stating facts here. Yes those people at Enron got screwed just like those that dealt with Maddof but don't compare the two with PSU I'm sorry!

you and your little compatriot are the ones arguing for no action based on jobs lossed. And deciding the victim don't want it shut down because pennsylvanians will hate them for it. I sure hope PA citizen are not that lowlife a scum. If they are, they should rot in hell for revictimizing these kids. Shut it down.

isadore;1227329 wrote:you and your little compatriot are the ones arguing for no action based on jobs lossed. And deciding the victim don't want it shut down because pennsylvanians will hate them for it. I sure hope PA citizen are not that lowlife a scum. If they are, they should rot in hell for revictimizing these kids. Shut it down.

So I will ask you, do you think that is what the victims and the citizens of PA want?? I surely haven't heard them calling for it! I also never stated that the victims will be hated for it if it happens. I gave very vialble reasons the death penalty shouldn't be leveled. I didn't let my emotions get in the way and if I heard the victims yelling to shut it down perhaps I would change my tune but that hasn't happened. You act like I don't have sympathy for the victims here, you couldn't be further from the truth. The debate is what should happen to PSU football and that is what I am debating and I also stated that they need to be sanctioned and those sanctions should be debated I just stopped short of the DP. Your opinion of my thoughts I think are off base!

Fab1b;1227333 wrote:So I will ask you, do you think that is what the victims and the citizens of PA want?? I surely haven't heard them calling for it! I also never stated that the victims will be hated for it if it happens. I gave very vialble reasons the death penalty shouldn't be leveled. I didn't let my emotions get in the way and if I heard the victims yelling to shut it down perhaps I would change my tune but that hasn't happened. You act like I don't have sympathy for the victims here, you couldn't be further from the truth. The debate is what should happen to PSU football and that is what I am debating and I also stated that they need to be sanctioned and those sanctions should be debated I just stopped short of the DP. Your opinion of my thoughts I think are off base!

If the citizens of PA decent, they should want it shutdown and any of them who hold the shutdown against those kids should rot in hell. I am sure that a kid who has been raped by a man famous for being a Penn State Football Coach in the Penn State Football locker room would be big supporters of the program. And then to find out the reason he was still able to do it was because of a conspiracy lead by the head coach of Penn State Football team. A man acting to protect the reputation of the Penn State Football program which was considered more important than the innocence of the young boys. Shut it down.

Again where the hell did I say the citizens would hold it against the victims of the sexual assaults?? Christ man! Also you don't know how the victims feel about PSU, just like mine is an assumption they don't want it to be shut down, yours is an assumption they do. The problem with yours though is not one has been quoted or heard saying that, at least to the publics knowledge, and at this point that is all we can go on!

Fab1b;1227342 wrote:Again where the hell did I say the citizens would hold it against the victims of the sexual assaults?? Christ man! Also you don't know how the victims feel about PSU, just like mine is an assumption they don't want it to be shut down, yours is an assumption they do. The problem with yours though is not one has been quoted or heard saying that, at least to the publics knowledge, and at this point that is all we can go on!

gosh a ruddies was any them quoted as saying fire joe paterno, guess they should not have done that, was any of them quoted as saying indict those administrators, was any of those students quoted saying fire the college president. its already been said by penn state fan on this thread how it would be held against them if they asked for it. So it is hardly a surprise if they are quiet. But gosh given that all that happened to them was tied to the Penn State football program, I think my assumption is on much stronger grounds.

isadore;1227352 wrote:gosh a ruddies .

enough with this shit, as you manage to spam every fucking thread you post on....go away, PLEASE!!!

isadore;1227352 wrote:gosh a ruddies was any them quoted as saying fire joe paterno, guess they should not have done that, was any of them quoted as saying indict those administrators, was any of those students quoted saying fire the college president. its already been said by penn state fan on this thread how it would be held against them if they asked for it. So it is hardly a surprise if they are quiet. But gosh given that all that happened to them was tied to the Penn State football program, I think my assumption is on much stronger grounds.

But why are you quoting me then talking about how the victims would be hated, again quote that poster and debate that with them!

It gets dumber and dumber the more I read

Fab1b;1227354 wrote:But why are you quoting me then talking about how the victims would be hated, again quote that poster and debate that with them!

It gets dumber and dumber the more I read

It was not as you describe it a criminal act, but a long term conspiracy to give free rein to a predator.
Penn State Football permeates the whole incident. Jerry Sandusky was able to do all he did because of the Penn State Football program. He was a major part of that program, a reason for its fame. Joe Paterno and the administration protected him because of the Football program. The football program benefited from the time this was hidden in recruiting and revenues which would have been limited by its revelation. That is far from a single sexual crime as you desribed it. The program should be shutdown.

isadore;1227363 wrote:It was not as you describe it a criminal act, but a long term conspiracy to give free rein to a predator.
Penn State Football permeates the whole incident. Jerry Sandusky was able to do all he did because of the Penn State Football program. He was a major part of that program, a reason for its fame. Joe Paterno and the administration protected him because of the Football program. The football program benefited from the time this was hidden in recruiting and revenues which would have been limited by its revelation. That is far from a single sexual crime as you desribed it. The program should be shutdown.

It is a damned sexual crime and again can you read since I never said it was a single act and I have stated those that were involved in keeping Sandusky under wraps will pay (hello there is your conspiracy)! (I just made a comparison using a sexual crime and Enron if that is where you got that from, not in the context as a whole) Was it a football program problem yes as well, again I didn't state other wise. What I did state was why IMO they won't get the death penalty. If they get the DP I will be shocked yes, I won't feel sorry for them but I am just trying to be grounded and I don't see them leveling it. It doesn't diminish the act or nor am I saying the crimes committed were petty! We all know what happened, again will PSU get the DP and my answer is no!

vball10set;1227353 wrote:enough with this ****, as you manage to spam every ****ing thread you post on....go away, PLEASE!!!

And how should Penn State Football be treated one of whose leading celebrities was a sexual predator, whose head coach lead a conspiracy that allowed marauder wreck many children’s lives and a program that benefited from the cover up in recruiting and revenue.
Some prefer to give the program a pass.

vball10set wrote:leave the football program to deal with the fallout--it'll be penalty enough.

But many decent people want the program shut down.

isadore;1227320 wrote:gosh who is this incompetent klutz Louis Freeh, what do he know about investigating and making judgements on law and guilt. Oh gosh yes he is a lawyer, well jeez any clown can become a lawyer. oh and he was an FBI agent, and a US attorney, and oh Federal District Judge, wow and beside that he Director of the FBI. But gosh that hardly matches your ability to gather and analyze evidence.

I never claimed to be an attorney. While there are important pieces of information present, the fact remains that the overall conclusion of the Freeh Report is largely founded on pure speculation. It doesn't take Judge Lance Ito to come to that determination.

Who is giving a pass? Everyone knows this will cost PSU in alot more ways than $$! If the NCAA decides to take action, and yes they may not to the surprise of some (though I do believe they will) I think the sanctions they level will cause PSU to not be competetive for some time with in the Big Ten which will cost them untold dollars, recruits, coaches, fans, etc..........

Fab1b;1227075 wrote:Originally I said yes but now I say no. I do think there should be sanctions of some sort though. There was no doubt LOIC here! The reasons I don't think the death penalty is even feasible is because of the following:
1. Football pays the bills at these schools like it or not, taking football away kills most if not all the remaining athletics that had no involvement in this.
2. Not fair to current/former players/current/former coaches who had no knowledge or involvement.
3. Not fair to the alumni and current/former students who paid $$$$$$ to attend PSU and support their athletics.
4. Not fair to the Big Ten
5. Not fair to all the future teams that have already have a scheduled game with PSU along with TV contracts.
6. I don't think this is what the victims would want, they want those responsible to pay that is happening.
Just some reasons off the top of my head. Now I did say sanctions are needed but what those should be can be debated as well.

gosh a ruddies its just not fair
"The county report resulted in Sandusky's required separation from the school pending the resolution of the allegations.
The public backlash, Gillum said, was almost immediate and jarring. Within weeks, the boy's mother reported to state investigators that she was confronted in a Lock Haven business by an unhappy local resident who had learned that her son had been linked to the allegations triggering Sandusky's removal as a volunteer.
The child's identity spread rapidly through the community, the psychologist said, making him and his mother the target of harassment — and ultimately threats of harm — by locals upset that Sandusky had been dismissed from the school.
School officials did not respond to requests for comment.
From his initial meetings with the boy, Gillum said, it became clear, based on the victim's fear and the community's anger, that extraordinary steps were needed to protect him and his mother.
"We started putting a (witness) relocation plan together almost from the first week," Gillum said, adding that an undisclosed sum of county money was dedicated to the effort. "There was huge fear

http://www.indystar.com/usatoday/article/56278226?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com%7Cp

reclegend22;1227376 wrote:I never claimed to be an attorney. While there are important pieces of information present, the fact remains that the overall conclusion of the Freeh Report is largely founded on pure speculation. It doesn't take Judge Lance Ito to come to that determination.

gosh a ruddies, Louis seems a little better trained to analyze evidence and draw conclusion from it than you do. And there is a continuing history beginning in 1998, then the 2001 incident and then continuing access to the facilities and continuing list of victims.

Fab1b;1227377 wrote:Who is giving a pass? Everyone knows this will cost PSU in alot more ways than $$! If the NCAA decides to take action, and yes they may not to the surprise of some (though I do believe they will) I think the sanctions they level will cause PSU to not be competetive for some time with in the Big Ten which will cost them untold dollars, recruits, coaches, fans, etc..........

oh gosh the great horror of what happened to SMU, one of the great atrocities of our time happened to those poor mustangs. What happened at Penn State is so beyond that as to make any comparison ridiculous. who cares what the long term results were, on the absolute scale of life they were no big deal.

isadore;1227387 wrote:gosh a ruddies, Louis seems a little better trained to analyze evidence and draw conclusion from it than you do. And there is a continuing history beginning in 1998, then the 2001 incident and then continuing access to the facilities and continuing list of victims.

First off, of course Louis Freeh is more qualified than I am as an investigator. But that doesn't make his grand assumptions any more correct. The context of the emails, without any word from Spanier, Schultz or Curley, just isn't there. Not enough to pinpoint Paterno as conspirator. It's just not. That's where my issue with the Freeh Report stands.

Also, my argument is solely based off the idea that Paterno was telling the truth, that he didn't know about the investigation in '98. There is enough reasonable room for doubt in the report that Paterno might have been telling the truth. The emails are just too vague to determine in what context they were really made.

I swear this "gosh a ruddies" shit needs to be done with. I dont think Penn St. will get the death penalty either. I think they will face some severe penalties and well deserved. I dont think we will ever see the DP again in our lifetimes.