I can see both sides of it:

1. It was a blatant lack of institutional control

but...

2. They gained little to no competitive advantage from it.

I would argue that hey had complete control and with such control they allowed the events to continue. Their oversight and permittance of the activites are the issue.

but do they deserve the death penalty?

I say no, and here's why. Abolishing football at Penn State will do nothing to make this situation any better for the victims, and might even make things worse for them. We've already heard that one of the victims was puportedly verbally tortured at his school for being "Sanduskyed." Can you imagine the possible backlash, however wrong or misguided, that these individuals might recieve or feel personally guilty of causing if Penn State and its millions of supporters who had no connection to the crimes were to lose the sport entirely? The entire state, outside of Pittsburgh, lives and breathes Penn State football. It shouldn't be about football anymore, but it always will be. That's the way of life. People eventually will move forward and go back to "business as usual."

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, I think the victims would feel partly responsible if PSU lost football. Victims of sexual abuse already are prone to feelings of guilt, that they were somehow the ones responsible. Do we really want to add the death penalty of Penn State football on top of that?

Besides, this is clearly out of the NCAA's realm of expertise. Let the proper authorities handle the matter. It's a criminal investigation, not Tattoo-gate.

Bob Dole;1227017 wrote:but do they deserve the death penalty?

Deserve? Probably yes.

Would I hand down such a penalty? No.

reclegend22;1227022 wrote: Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, I think the victims would feel partly responsible if PSU lost football.

You're entitled to an opinion, but that is a ridiculous statement.

reclegend22;1227022 wrote:...
Besides, this is clearly out of the NCAA's realm of expertise. Let the proper authorities handle the matter. It's a criminal investigation, not Tattoo-gate.

Agreed.

reclegend22 wrote:The entire state, outside of Pittsburgh, lives and breathes Penn State football. It shouldn't be about football anymore, but it always will be. That's the way of life. People eventually will move forward and go back to "business as usual."

If I may contradict myself, perhaps this would serve as good reasoning for the death penalty. I still think that the NCAA should just leave it be, but removing the program would certainly put priorities in place.

Bob Dole;1227025 wrote:You're entitled to an opinion, but that is a ridiculous statement.

How would you feel if you were one of the victims in that situation and the most beloved team in the entire state (let's say, for example, the Ohio State Buckeyes), and all the joy and happiness that the team brings to millions upon millions, was taken away because of something you wished never ever would have happened? Would that program being shut down help you move forward or just cause you more grief and depression for everything that transpired?

It wouldn't do any good. Bottom line.

reclegend22;1227039 wrote:How would you feel if you were one of the victims in that situation and the most beloved team in the entire state (let's say, for example, the Ohio State Buckeyes), and all the joy and happiness that the team brings to millions upon millions, was taken away because of something you wished never ever would have happened? Would that program being shut down help you move forward or just cause you more grief and depression for everything that transpired?

It wouldn't do any good. Bottom line.

The reason to do it or not do it shouldn't be based on the victims feelings. I personally would not ever want to see or hear about Penn State again if I were the victim. Other people's beloved view of them would be irrelevant to me.

Con_Alma;1227041 wrote:The reason to do it or not do it shouldn't be based on the victims feelings. I personally would not ever want to see or hear about Penn State again if I were the victim. Other people's beloved view of them would be irrelevant to me.

I agree that that should be the case. However, we all know the irrationally of fans, particularly the more rabid portion of the base. I just think that it would be a mistake to add another chapter to this ugly ordeal, especially considering the team itself -- the players -- had no involvement. It's time to clean up the institution and move on, remaining cautious of the past but looking brightly ahead with a commitment to making a difference and ensuring things are done the right way.

It's time for PSU to heal.

yes they should get the death penalty

Originally I thought that this is a criminal investigation and it should be treated as one, the more I read the more I am inclined to say that Joe Pa and the other administrators that were at PSU lost their minds and tried to cover this up. They decided that protecting PSU football and the university from bad press was more important than the safety of the children that were being molested and raped. PSU deserves the death penalty for 1-2 years. All the players should be released from their scholarships and be allowed to transfer and play anywhere they can get in. The players should not be punished in any form, no loss of eligibility and the contract coach O'Brien should be honored. I grew up a PSU fan and I am horrified at what has happened and the lack of respect and consideration that the university has shown to the victims by allowing this to happen for years after Sandusky was outer as a child molester and rapist. Since PSU wanted to place football above the safety and security of the children, PSU should lose football for some period of time.

Originally I said yes but now I say no. I do think there should be sanctions of some sort though. There was no doubt LOIC here! The reasons I don't think the death penalty is even feasible is because of the following:
1. Football pays the bills at these schools like it or not, taking football away kills most if not all the remaining athletics that had no involvement in this.
2. Not fair to current/former players/current/former coaches who had no knowledge or involvement.
3. Not fair to the alumni and current/former students who paid $$$$$$ to attend PSU and support their athletics.
4. Not fair to the Big Ten
5. Not fair to all the future teams that have already have a scheduled game with PSU along with TV contracts.
6. I don't think this is what the victims would want, they want those responsible to pay that is happening.
Just some reasons off the top of my head. Now I did say sanctions are needed but what those should be can be debated as well.

reclegend22;1227049 wrote:... we all know the irrationally of fans, particularly the more rabid portion of the base...

Indeed we do.

It drives me nuts to hear from the media that Penn State gained no competitive advantage. Of course they did. They maintained their pristine image and were allowed to keep a coach that was good in a strategic sense on staff. Stability is very important in college football. The stability and image enabled recruiting and probably enabled millions of dollars through donations, sponsorship, and media contracts. They have to get hit hard.

Fab1b;1227075 wrote:Originally I said yes but now I say no. I do think there should be sanctions of some sort though. There was no doubt LOIC here! The reasons I don't think the death penalty is even feasible is because of the following:
1. Football pays the bills at these schools like it or not, taking football away kills most if not all the remaining athletics that had no involvement in this.
2. Not fair to current/former players/current/former coaches who had no knowledge or involvement.
3. Not fair to the alumni and current/former students who paid $$$$$$ to attend PSU and support their athletics.
4. Not fair to the Big Ten
5. Not fair to all the future teams that have already have a scheduled game with PSU along with TV contracts.
6. I don't think this is what the victims would want, they want those responsible to pay that is happening.
Just some reasons off the top of my head. Now I did say sanctions are needed but what those should be can be debated as well.

I stopped reading at the first "not fair". It wasn't fair to the kids who continued to be molested while they played hush-up on campus.

A hundred million in civil suits and probable jail time for the people who knew isn't being hit hard?

I don't see how the death penalty helps the victims, so my obvious answer is no.

Mulva;1227126 wrote:A hundred million in civil suits and probable jail time for the people who knew isn't being hit hard?

I don't see how the death penalty helps the victims, so my obvious answer is no.

Cash isn't going to "help" the victims, but that doesn't stop them from suing.

mella;1227072 wrote:Originally I thought that this is a criminal investigation and it should be treated as one, the more I read the more I am inclined to say that Joe Pa and the other administrators that were at PSU lost their minds and tried to cover this up. They decided that protecting PSU football and the university from bad press was more important than the safety of the children that were being molested and raped. PSU deserves the death penalty for 1-2 years. All the players should be released from their scholarships and be allowed to transfer and play anywhere they can get in. The players should not be punished in any form, no loss of eligibility and the contract coach O'Brien should be honored. I grew up a PSU fan and I am horrified at what has happened and the lack of respect and consideration that the university has shown to the victims by allowing this to happen for years after Sandusky was outer as a child molester and rapist. Since PSU wanted to place football above the safety and security of the children, PSU should lose football for some period of time.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts. I too, at first, thought the NCAA should stay out of it. Now I think they need severe punishment.

gyea36;1227114 wrote:It drives me nuts to hear from the media that Penn State gained no competitive advantage. Of course they did. They maintained their pristine image and were allowed to keep a coach that was good in a strategic sense on staff. Stability is very important in college football. The stability and image enabled recruiting and probably enabled millions of dollars through donations, sponsorship, and media contracts. They have to get hit hard.

This. They most certainly DID get a competitive advantage from hiding this. Otherwise, why would they do it?

Mulva;1227126 wrote:A hundred million in civil suits and probable jail time for the people who knew isn't being hit hard?

I don't see how the death penalty helps the victims, so my obvious answer is no.

It's not about helping the victims. It's about punishing the school that allowed this to happen and covered it up. From the janitor, to the head football coach, to the university president.

This is a REALLY tough question. My gut says No -- the actions of a few men (regardless of how heinous those actions were) should not dictate the future of many innocent men. I also think that this entire tragedy has, more or less, already cast a death penalty on Penn State's recruiting anyway: what bigtime recruits would go there now?

Bob Dole;1227025 wrote:You're entitled to an opinion, but that is a ridiculous statement.

+1. What a ridiculous thing to say.

gyea36;1227114 wrote:It drives me nuts to hear from the media that Penn State gained no competitive advantage. Of course they did. They maintained their pristine image and were allowed to keep a coach that was good in a strategic sense on staff. Stability is very important in college football. The stability and image enabled recruiting and probably enabled millions of dollars through donations, sponsorship, and media contracts. They have to get hit hard.

That's the exact part that I have a difficult time wrapping my head around, only for different reasons than you. If Paterno actually knew firsthand -- or believed, which in my view Paterno chose not to -- that Sandusky was in fact sodomizing children on campus on a regular basis, he could have just gone to the police himself and there would have been zero penalty to him. In fact, in light of helping bring a serial predator to justice, Paterno would have been recognized as an even bigger hero and humanitarian than he already is.

Penn State would have had way more to lose by arranging a coverup than they had to gain. The only thing they would have gained by a coverup is escaping the embarrassment of Sandusky in the news. That would have eventually faded from memory, though, since no other parties were involved in Sanusky's activities, so the idea of a grand coverup just seems pointless. It doesn't make any sense. I think what Paterno, Shultz and Curley are most guilty of is pure negligence and not treating the matter as serious as they should have (i.e. misconstruing Mike McQueary's story as a mix-up).