sleeper;1152311 wrote:People feel the same way when they join a cult. The desire trespasses the logical reason of someone's mind and then the mind blindly follows the cult leader. The cult leader gives them hope, especially after the cult leader drains the entire person's intellectual and financial wealth, and then they have nothing.

sleeper;1152316 wrote:I'm thinking of bringing out the Illiad and quoting random passages to justify my belief. What a joke.

Con_Alma;1152342 wrote:Why would a passage justify your belief?

That's kind of interesting.

Con_Alma;1152340 wrote:Glad they do....although it has little to do or impact on how I feel.

sleeper;1152352 wrote:Why would it? You've already said you don't use logic or reason to justify your belief. They've already won.

sleeper;1152351 wrote:See Skyhook's posts.

How useless would this debate be if I started posting quotes from Harry Potter as justification for the belief in Wizards?

Skyhook79;1152315 wrote:You can't earn you way to heaven, it is by Grace we are saved.

...

Con_Alma;1152357 wrote:I read skyhook's posts as reference for better explaining his belief. I didn't think it was the reason he had such belief. I would like to see your passages from Illiad ...especially if they are "random". It might tie in nicely.

sleeper;1152368 wrote:[LEFT]"and its devastation, which put pains thousandfold upon the Achaians,
hurled in their multitudes to the house of Hades strong souls
of heroes, but gave their bodies to be the delicate feasting
of dogs, of all birds, and the will of Zeus was accomplished"

"Thetis answered him then letting the tears fall: 'Ah me,
my child, your birth was bitterness. Why did I raise you?
If only you could sit by your ships untroubled, not weeping,
since indeed your lifetime is to be short, of no length.
Now it has befallen that your life must be brief and bitter
beyond all men's. To a bad destiny I bore you in my chambers.' (1.413-418)"


[/LEFT]

sleeper;1152373 wrote:I literally just pulled a random quote. The great thing about the Illiad, is there are people who actually believe its correct.

Apparently beliefs are on the same level as facts in your world. Pretty delusional.

sleeper;1152373 wrote:I literally just pulled a random quote. The great thing about the Illiad, is there are people who actually believe its correct.

Apparently beliefs are on the same level as facts in your world. Pretty delusional.

Con_Alma;1152377 wrote:I can't be more clear. It's beyond apparent. I have definitively stated for you it is by faith and faith alone. You don't have to surmise or guess the basis of me taking my position.

sleeper;1152385 wrote:But faith and fact are different. Beliefs are not factual, almost by definition.

Why do you take everything personal? I'm calling out faith as being an illogical cop out and you always make it about yourself. I don't care about your beliefs, I care about beliefs in the aggregate. They aren't reality, they aren't correct, they aren't admirable, they are a crock of ****.

sleeper;1152391 wrote:Faith can be attached to anything. If I have faith in unicorns, that doesn't make unicorns reality.

Simple as that.

Con_Alma;1152394 wrote:I thought I agreed with you on that principle...over and over again. It is not faith that makes something a reality. It is the belief that it is real that creates the faith in someone.

sleeper;1152406 wrote:The belief is meaningless. If its real in someone, then are experiencing some form of hallucination or dementia and should seek medical attention.

Con_Alma;1152410 wrote:Belief is meaningless to you. It is the root for others. That has been the whole point of the discussion.

You do not rely upon it while others do.

sleeper;1152412 wrote:If I believe that the Civil War did not happen, is that belief meaningful?

Con_Alma;1152414 wrote:To me, it is not. ...just as I don't expect my beliefs to be "meaningful" to you.

sleeper;1152417 wrote:But its okay for me to believe the Civil War did not exist?

sleeper;1152418 wrote:This is such a silly discussion. Just because you believe something doesn't mean it happened. It doesn't mean its real. If its real to you, seek professional medical attention.